Kleshas Of The Mind

Spirituality
#41

Elisabeth,

“I’m not impressed and think you suffer from a HUGE EGO. Why else would you record yourself and put it on youtube and then promote yourself on various sites?”

Simply because I want to share what I have experienced. It is not a question of being entangled in egotism, although it can be very easily interpreted as such. It is simply that once you come to your own liberation, compassion is inevitable. And out of that compassion, there is a very natural desire that arises to assist others towards their liberation. One can see it as clear as day light, that man is suffering unecessarily when his own freedom is closer to himself than his own very breath. That is why a man like Gautama Buddha was speaking unceasingly for 40 years. So many teachers have worked tirelessly to assist others, when they could have simply evaporated like snowflakes in the wind. But to remain silent would have been a great disservice to all those who are sincere seekers of Truth.

“In my thread “Should Yoga teachers be Vegetarian?” you invited a lady to have a turkey dinner.”

Perhaps you should first understand why I have said such a thing. I myself am a vegetarian. But that woman was far too attached to the idea that being a vegetarian is something spiritual. There is nothing spiritual about it at all, it does not mean one has come to any insight into life, neither does it mean that one has become compassionate. Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, and he has been one of the most violent human beings who have come here. And if you are too attached to the idea of being a vegetarian, perhaps you should eat meat to help you transcend that idea which is part of one’s deep conditioning.

“Where is your compassion, AmirMourad?”

Compassion has very little to do with ones’ likes and dislikes. It is simply doing whatever is necessary to help alleviate the sufferings of others. And what you like, may be a great barrier for one’s expansion. And what you dislike, may be a stepping stone.

“I don’t promote myself as a teacher on youtube like he does.”

If you have something to promote which can help others, perhaps you should. Youtube is a very useful.

#42

[QUOTE=JSK;48314]Gods don’t exactly exist either.[/QUOTE]

It all depends on what you mean by “Gods”.

#43

Good grief, you’ll say anything to try and win an argument.

#44

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48315]God’s are just more realized humans. The process of Yoga is to become a god. This is what the Vedic sages have taught since the beginning - Aham Brahmasmi[/QUOTE]

A fairy tale. An idea at best.

The truth is, you’re going to eventually age and die and decompose.

#45

[QUOTE=Asuri;48320]Good grief, you’ll say anything to try and win an argument.[/QUOTE]

Nope, I will say what I know to be true. I even demonstrated with a clear reference explaining that we do not actually know what electricity is. We use electricity, but we do not actually know what it is, where it comes from and what the nature of it is

You made a claim that physicists understand electricity, but no physicist who is worthy of the title would ever claim to know what electricity really is.

Depending on who you consult you will get differing definition of what electricity is. It is force, it is a field, it is a charge, it is energy, it is an electron, it is a wave, it is the after-effects of another dimension.

Science does not know what anything really is and that is why there are so many different viewpoints in science. I have studied philosophy of science and it is common knowledge to all students of philosophy of science that science is not a monolithic, uniform and absolute entity. It is based on various perspectives and viewpoints, competing theories and models which rise and fall, and dozens of different interpretations. Therefore, if your definition of science is that it must not have differing viewpoints, then by that definition nothing is a science.

#46

[QUOTE=elisabeth111;48308]I don’t promote myself as a teacher on youtube like he does.

I’m simply a person with a negative guru experience and through my website I have tried to find other ex-disciples of Swamiji. I am happy to say I already found some European ex-disciples because of my website and I am trying to act as a point of contact for these people, as well as warn people about Swamiji.[/quote]

But you do promote yourself as a detractor of this Swamiji. I reviewed your website today to see what bad this Swamiji has exactly done to you, and I did not find anything objectionable about this swami at all. I came away from this website more sympathetic to the Swami because it sounds like you are trying to settle a personal vendetta with him because he did not meet your unrealistic expectations at the start such as not being able to put you in touch with your dead relatives on the other side, not being able to make you dying dog alive again, and not being a perfectly nice person. You came across looking worse than the Swami.

You criticise the Swami for his weight problems as well and having diabetes. This just made you sound like a jerk to be honest. You obviously do not understand those who have diabetes often put on weight as well. You also seem to have this unrealistic expectation that a swami should be free of physical disease.

#47

You’re crazy, and your just plain wrong. I’m not an electrician, but I know something about electricity. It has many well known properties that can be measured and regulated precisely. It is the lifeblood of our civilzation. To say that scientists don’t understand it is absurd. The different definitions in your link are just describing different properties. This is just another one of your ridiculous arguments. Science is extremely precise. Yoga is not.

#48

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48346]But you do promote yourself as a detractor of this Swamiji. I reviewed your website today to see what bad this Swamiji has exactly done to you, and I did not find anything objectionable about this swami at all. I came away from this website more sympathetic to the Swami because it sounds like you are trying to settle a personal vendetta with him because he did not meet your unrealistic expectations at the start such as not being able to put you in touch with your dead relatives on the other side, not being able to make you dying dog alive again, and not being a perfectly nice person. You came across looking worse than the Swami.

You criticise the Swami for his weight problems as well and having diabetes. This just made you sound like a jerk to be honest. You obviously do not understand those who have diabetes often put on weight as well. You also seem to have this unrealistic expectation that a swami should be free of physical disease.[/QUOTE]

Well, well - Dear Mr Surya Deva. Since when have you started dishing out personal insults? You PRIDE yourself not to attack people, and always complain about other people insulting you?! You’re entitled to your opinion about me, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Of course, I disagree with you, but that is to be expected. :sunglasses:

In relation to my website: None of your assumptions about my intention, or reason for it, are correct, but I do agree that vital points have been left out. They have been left out for a reason.

I tried to explain myself to some people who have responded to my site in a short video, which I have uploaded to Youtube about a week ago, to save myself having to repeat the same thing over and over again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYjnBFR8F6U

#49

Buddhists have a whole different point of view on this. According to them, to live for the welfare of others is not a natural inclination, it’s something you have to cultivate. Some Buddhists take a formal vow of boddhicitta. There’s a code of conduct that you have to follow, and you have to be committed to doing your practice.

I’m with the Buddhists on this one. No snake oil for sale there.

#50

[QUOTE=Asuri;48351]You’re crazy, and your just plain wrong. I’m not an electrician, but I know something about electricity. It has many well known properties that can be measured and regulated precisely. It is the lifeblood of our civilzation. To say that scientists don’t understand it is absurd. The different definitions in your link are just describing different properties. This is just another one of your ridiculous arguments. Science is extremely precise. Yoga is not.[/QUOTE]

You are obviously not a scientist either :slight_smile: If you were, you would be aware of just how many different viewpoints are held in science in every single discipline. The positivist mindset that existed in early 20th century in science that science is precise, factual and absolute has long been replaced in the latter half of the 20th century by the postmodern mindset that science is a set of competing perspectives and viewpoints.

Although I can understand why this comes as a shock to you. I remember the first time in class when my professor taught this in class, I was arguing just as vehemently like you against the proposition. I even got into trouble! Until I finally did the reading and realised that the long held myth I had that science was precise, factual and absolute was false. I realised that the entities that erstwhile took for granted like atoms, electrons and gravity were purely conceptual and their ontological status debatable.

All that we know about electricity, atoms and gravity is the effects we can measure. We do not actually really know what electricity, atoms and gravity really is, they are just useful labels for effects that we can measure and which help us in practical calculations.

I am not about to have a debate with you on something you seem to know little about. Believe what you want :slight_smile:

#51

I am simply giving an assessment of you from what I read on your website which has been put up to slander a holy man. Nothing you said on that website made the guru seem objectionable, it just made you look like somebody who began seeing this guru with unrealistic expectations and when your unrealistic expectations were not met, you turned sour against him and now are promoting hatred against him by posting on several forums telling people to stay away from him. You come across as looking bad in this, not him. Sorry to say.

#52

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48357]I am simply giving an assessment of you from what I read on your website which has been put up to slander a holy man. Nothing you said on that website made the guru seem objectionable, it just made you look like somebody who began seeing this guru with unrealistic expectations and when your unrealistic expectations were not met, you turned sour against him and now are promoting hatred against him by posting on several forums telling people to stay away from him. You come across as looking bad in this, not him. Sorry to say.[/QUOTE]
[I]
[B]Both of us are guilty as charged[/B]: We live in ignorance and don’t know the true reality, which are part of the five Kleshas, if I am not mistaken?

[/I]When people criticize you, and offend you, you cry: ?Ah, poor me, they are attacking me?

If you criticize someone and offend them, you say it?s an ?assessment?, or a critical appraisal of concepts.

In relation to me, you used the word “jerk”. And then you call it an assessment of me.

Coming back to the 5 Kleshas, I can honestly say you live in ignorance and you definitely do not know “the truth”, or “reality”.

You say: “I am slandering a holy man”. Mmhhh. How do you know he is holy? Because you went to his website and read some things, and now you believe what you read? My dear Surya Deva, you disappoint me. With your intelligence and your education and scientific orientation, I would have thought that you would not be so easily convinced. Before you can believe that Swamiji is indeed “holy”, I would have thought you would want to see for yourself and seek the truth: Truth not from a website, or some book, but truth from direct experience.

As I said before, we are both guilty as charged. :rolleyes:

#53

In relation to me, you used the word “jerk”. And then you call it an assessment of me.

Nope, I said criticising somebody because they have diabetes and weight problems makes you sound like a jerk.

You say: “I am slandering a holy man”. Mmhhh. How do you know he is holy?

I know he is a holy man because he is a well known Hindu guru, with a large following of people and teaches people spirituality and contributes to humanitarian projects. On your web site you slander this man, without actually giving any valid reason. In your youtube clip you say he deeply disappointed you, but do not mention what he actually did that was so bad. You say - “I cannot put it into words” On your own web site you make yourself look very bad by telling your unrealistic expectations - such as asking him to bless your dog, but when your dog got worse and died, you somehow blame it on him.
Your other expectation was getting him to contact some deceased relative on the other side.

From your web site:

Unfortunately, Swamiji isn’t always full of love, he mistreats people with the excuse of teaching them a spiritual lesson, he plays games, he manipulates people and of course, ultimately told me the biggest lie, made me the biggest promise and it all turned sour and bitter: it all turned to dust.

How does he mistreat and manipulate people? What promise did he make to you and what lie has he told you? Give actual examples.

#54

Asuri,

As you are interested in argument for the sake of argument, chasing one’s own tail in repetative circles, rather than inquiring into into truth, there is no purpose in continuing the conversation. Just absorb whatever you may find useful according to your own intelligence and continue on your way.

#55

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48378]Nope, I said criticising somebody because they have diabetes and weight problems makes you sound like a jerk.
.[/QUOTE]

Dear Surya Deva - Exactly: “X,Y,Z…[B]makes you sound like a jerk[/B]”.
That’s an insult. No use wiggling your way out of that one. :stuck_out_tongue:

You stated your age at one point, didn’t you? 30? So you are still quite young. Born in the Chinese Year of the MONKEY. That would explain a lot.

I’m done here. Don’t like talking to monkeys. :smiley:

#56

takes practice

#57

@ Amir

OK.

#58

“You haven’t said anything I don’t already know.”

That’s good. One may already have far too much knowledge.

#59

Thanks Amir for posting valuable info on youtube. Very infornative( is that a right term?) Can you discuss more about inormation-knowledge-wisdom-transformation?

BTW, I am newbie and greetings to all :slight_smile:

#60

Be careful who you listen to newbie. There is no shortage of charlatans out there looking for impressionable minds. Same may even be well-meaning. Just don’t swallow what you hear without chewing well.