Lao Tzu and Confucius

Creativity Poetry & Quotes
#1

[B]From Huahujing (Hua Hu Ching) [/B]

According to certain sources, Confucius was following a ritualistic and ceremonial attitude about his own philosophy. Hence his philosophy in China became more of an organized religion insofar as it was politically corrupted.

There is one particular story in Huahujing that tells an encounter between Conficus and Lao Tzu. Whether it is an actual story or not, it matters not. When Confucius approached Lao Tzu to get some information about rituals, Lao Tzu asked:

?Have you found Tao??

?For 27 years I searched yet couldn?t find it? said Confucius. Upon this, Lao Tzu only provided these advices with Confucius:

?Wise one likes darkness; he does not get carried away with occurring events, but evaluates time and conditions. If place and time is accommodating, then he speaks, if not, then he does not. One who has a treasure does not show it to everyone. So, a really wise one does not explain the truth to each person he come across. Destroy your conceited self, desires, and the condignus and zealous appearance upon you. These things do not benefit your personality. And this is all I am to say.?

Confucius leaves this meeting saddened. He later tells his students: ?I know all the animals ? birds, fish, four-legged ? and know each one?s behaviour. And I am yet to recognize dragon: Because it ascends above clouds and wind up in the skies. I saw Lao Tzu today, he looks like a dragon.?

Accounts inform us that Lao Tzu was researching “Tao” and “Te”. According to his teaching, a secret and ordinary life was necessary. Whist Confucius was putting the supreme-man ideal forward and claiming that it would be a ruler.

Today’s China is the outcome of guess which one?

#2

Thanks for that.

Lao Tzu was rejected in Chinese thought in favour of Confucius, because Lao Tzu’s philosophy was not conducive to rule of law. It was a philosophy of mysticism, self-development, humiliy and surrender. On the other hand Confuciuian philosophy was a philsophy of moral conduct, obedience and etiquette for the sake of harmony in the state.
The latter has prevailed in China since its inception, and gave rise to an even more extreme versions like Mohism. In Confucianism citizens are required to observe rules of etiquette in all situations for the harmony of the state, but it is missing a means via which such rules can be institutionalized in society. Mohism provides for this by saying an emperor should force everybody to conform to the rule of law and the rules should be the same for all citizens. It also says that belief in the deity or the supernatural can be used as a means to gain the support of the people.

The bulk of Chinese philosophy deals with political philosophy and how to discipline its citizens to be a good citizen and conform to state law. This is why individuality is a rather alien concept to the Chinese mind. It is not surprising then why the Chinese mind resonated so strongly with Western marxist philosophy of communism.

#3

[QUOTE=High Wolf;61012][B]

Accounts inform us that Lao Tzu was researching “Tao” and “Te”. [B]According to his teaching, a secret and ordinary life was necessary. Whist Confucius was putting the supreme-man ideal forward and claiming that it would be a ruler.[/B]

Today’s China is the outcome of guess which one?[/QUOTE]

I actually implied that both philosophies are incepted in today’s China. Communists insinuated these texts in such a way that the modern Chinese philosophy is now a combination of Lao Tzu’s secretive and ordinary life and Confucius’ supreme-man ideal.

Why indeed, politicians always corrupt what wise ones actually point out. As Lao Tzu puts it,

[B]From Huahujing[/B]
[B](trans. from Greek, by High Wolf)[/B]

(1) I teach the Integral Way of merging with the great and mysterious Tao.
My teachings are simple.
If you want to make a religion and science out of these teachings,
They let you down.
Deeply and conspicuously there is the whole truth of universe.
For ones who wants to know the truth entirely,
Doing the task they are asked to do
Or fulfilling their service is a pleasure.
When they complete their tasks,
They shall reach the taste of purifying and nourishing themselves.
When they are tending to others and themselves,
They will be led to the master of the teaching.
This simple path leads to serenity, virtue and welfare.

#4

I think Lao Tzu’s teachings are less prevalent in China. In fact it was his teachings and Zen Buddhism that were stamped down by Mao. Although I think I know what you mean that the secrecy may have been inherited from Taoist thought of remaining silent and only speaking when it is necessary.

#5

I would argue that Lao Tzu’s ideas could not be accepted in the United States as well. Lao Tzu discusses living private, humble lives, in unison with nature. Cities in the US, some more than others, are in a constant state of chaos. By chaos, I am referring to the hectic, on-the-go attitudes everyone seems to share. Whether it may be going to work or spending a day shopping, consumers are engulfed in a world of technology and products that are grabbing their attention. They feel obligated to buy and have the latest and greatest products on the market, even though the products are not a necessity. It appears to be a dog-eat-dog world in some places because there is an American stigma for being an individual and looking out for one’s self. This completley rejects Lao Tzu’s philosophy regarding living a content life without desires for more.

  Also, when Lao Tzu discusses living without desires, he is also including the desire for more knowledge. It would be preposterous to decline students seeking further education. Without education, America would simply destroy itself over time because of the lack of professionalism and knowledge running big buisnesses. The amount of American scientists, inventors, and astronauts are all products of great education and have contributed to not only America's advance in technology, but the world's as well.
#6

Nice :slight_smile: I consider Stephen Mitchell’s translation of Tao Te Ching the best one.