I have come to really immerse myself in Yoga, not only in terms of asana but also with regard to philosophy and life-style. However, I wish I could discuss my impressions especially on Vedanta philosophy with someone.
Would anyone of you know a place (forum) where I could find people who would be interested in discussing Vedanta with relation to Yoga?
I am just after finishing Krishnamurti’s “Freedom from the Known” and I am very very overwhelmed by it. I wish someone could help me to figure things out.
Mirjana,
thanks for the wonderful suggestion and your interest! I would love to start it here but I was afraid to bother people as I wasn’t sure whether they’d be interested in Vedanta…
so I shall give it a try and see…
My most pressing question refers to J. Krishnamurti’s text: Freedom from the Known, which I personally consider the most radical writing I have come across in my admittedly very short reading journey through Vedantic literature. I find it so radical because it really asks us to give up on any ideology or ‘godly’ reference-point as a point of orientation. In this respect he also says, if I understand it correctly, that one should not try and give up certain bad habits because that would also imply a conditioning to principles and thus stand in the way of true freedom. Instead, he claims, one ought to give ones entire attention to the habit and by truly understanding it, it would cease automatically. In the same way, he objects to traditional concepts of meditation, where one should seek to push interfering thoughts away and he proposes instead to just acknowledge these thoughts and again understand them and thereby eliminating them.
To me, Krishnamurti’s ideas are very thought-provoking and wonderfully challenging. However, I sense a little bit of a contrast between him and other yogic conceptions as for example in Patanjali’s Sutras which, to my mind, have to do a lot with discipline and concentration as opposed to Krishnamurti’s ‘total attention’ and rejection of discipline in that sense…
What do others think? Do you think Krishnamurti is as radical as I feel he is? I would love to hear some other opinions.
basically it sounds like self inquiry. alan watts calls what you are talking about a form of yoga, eckhart tolle talks about similar stuff, always being present, there are more teachers like this. There is byron katie who talks about four questions to ask yourself when things come up. Yoga seems to be about letting fall away what is not you, so you may see yourself for what you are. You can even add this practice to meditation and it may deepen both. the choice is yours
enjoy
brother neil
Namaste and Welcome to the forum. I have read J Krishnamurti a long time ago and have found the work of Ramana Maharishi more to my liking. But i would like to respond to some of the questions you ask. Sorry if it is too long, but Advaita Vendanta cannot be discussed in short.
To understand Krishnamurti one must always remember his pov “Truth is a pathless land.” (I hope I quoted correctly, but is was something in those lines.) The basic understanding is that to be completely free from the limitations of the “I” one has to let go of the conventional notions of what and who God is, you have to confront those aspects you have always believed to be the “truth” and see them for what they are, man made ideas of who and what God is, in other words the untruth. To explain: If you ask me to show you God, I’ll tell to come back tomorrow and I show you exactly who and what God is. But I’ll ask you first to define God, what is your concept of God, because everyone on this planet want to see God without having a firm conviction of God in their minds. So I’ll need to understand completely what is your notion of God before I can show him to you, becasue if I show you God and you say to me but that is not my idea of God then I haven’t showed you God, did I? This is what Krishnamurti refers to here, he wants each individual to realise the Divine within on his/her own terms and convictions, not according to those of any ideology, dogma or organisation.
I love coffee, I drink two strong cups every morning, it is the one “bad” habit I haven’t given up yet. Why? Simply becaue I don’t belief it is as bad as many on this forum and elsewhere would make it out to be. Can you undertsand what is a bad habit for others is perfectly good for me. Now, if I give in to the general view that the caffeien in coffee is bad and I try to let go of my taste for coffee then I am merely giving in to the implied conditioning of this community and the views of others and what have I learned or gained from that experience? Nothing, because it was not the Self discovering some great Truth, but the the “I” that gave in to social conditioning, pressures and principals. The way to true freedom is to know the Self, to enquire and to experience. Once you see the essence of the gold earrings, necklace and ring (which is in essence not even gold, but just energy) when you look beyond the form you perceive with your eyes and see the true essence, then you have discovered part of the Self.
You must understand that this is a procees, it doesn’t happen overnight or even in one lifetime, but with every step you take towards the Truth of who you really are, the greater your awareness which will lead to realisation, no matter when that might be. In other words discovered that which you are not.
In truth Krishnamurti’s view on meditation wasn’t that different from what we teach in yoga. The main difference between the conventional view of meditation and that of Krishnamurti was that he advocated meditation through direct experience and in order to directly experience things you had to be in the moment with it. In other words cultivate awareness of every moment, that was meditation for him, not just a few sittings a day for a few minutes etc. Most people can sit for a meditation and some can sit even for hours applying a bunch of techniques, but most of them experience nothing except the nagging chatter of their minds, which most desperately tries to ignore or push to the back through breathing or mantra or some image they hold. And this Krishnamurti said you must allow it to happen, acknowledge the mind and eventually it will cease to bother you, because you will know its nature, which is not the truth. In other words by understanding the nature of the mind you can eventually escape its chatter and nagging because the mind has no control over the Self anymore.
In fact just the opposite, Krishnamurti himself was very disciplined and he was no stranger to the value of discipline. What he warn against is the blind following of the teachings of others. So many people are just parrots, they repeat what they have read in books or they repeat their own teachers verbatim, and none or very little is their own truth which they have gained through their own direct experience. In fact I personally think that Krishnamurti rather encourages us to cultivate awareness not through blindly following with total attention that paths of others, but to discover our own path in a pathless land.
Hope this makes sense, please feel free to ask more. I love Vedanta, I don’t view myself as a Vedantin, but it sort of resonates with what I have discovered for myslef over the years.
[QUOTE=abisababa;16471]My dear members and guests,
I have come to really immerse myself in Yoga, not only in terms of asana but also with regard to philosophy and life-style. However, I wish I could discuss my impressions especially on Vedanta philosophy with someone.
Would anyone of you know a place (forum) where I could find people who would be interested in discussing Vedanta with relation to Yoga?
I am just after finishing Krishnamurti’s “Freedom from the Known” and I am very very overwhelmed by it. I wish someone could help me to figure things out.
Thanks a lot for any help or suggestions.
Best to all of you!
Abisababa[/QUOTE]
Rashmi has a thread about Vedas, Yoga and Meditation. You might wish to have a look.
Thanks for sharing this Hubert, much of it was what Krishnamurti also said about education and how we should go about it. In fact I think he was most probably ahead of his time.
Krishnamurti, great man. He was the wonderkid of the theosophical movement of the early XXies. The main reason for Rudolf Steiner leaving that movement was because theosophists (Leadbeater, Annie Besant) proclaimed Krishnamurti as the reincarnated Jesus (Christ).
Anyway, Krishnamurti left too after he realized what is happening. He gained his independence of theosophy, and became a great teacher.
Interesting that although he rejected their (Leadbeater and Besant) notion that he was Christ reincarnated, he did view himself as the Great Teacher of the World and days before his death he even made sure that none of his disciples would be able to continue the Teachings as he believed himself to be the only one who could teach the Teachings and who could understand it.
I have no doubts the he is a great soul. But I would be at difficulty to try to create a hierarchy of great souls. Somehow, the spirit is alive in every one of them, and there is no place for comparison. Between we are all Christs, and none of us are really Christ, there is a whole range of christhood levels … Perhaps it comes down to who we are closer too.
Surely, if all is one, than me and you both were Krishnamurti and he is living in me and you and all else is just names and places. But such approach would cut our discussion very short.
Unfortunately yes, because this is the eventual conclusion of vedanta as well, All is One.
I would like to hear from the person who started this thread what he/she thinks so far. You asked for a discussion on vedanta and I would like to see more participation from your side in this thread as well please. Surely you must have something to say?
My impression is that when one keeps in mind the purpose of practice - to gain discriminative knowledge - all teachings are complementary. No matter where your temporary focus is. And if one want more than intellectual understanding, than one’s experience is always unique, even if the guidelines are the same for everybody. And all practices require dedication, self-discipline and finding own way.
