Lotus

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi, I have been practicing yoga for a little over two years now. Very consistently, at least 5 days per week. I practice Bikram, Hatha, Power, Vinyasa and sometimes Ashtanga (though this last one, not very successfully ;-)).

I absolutely love yoga, and realise that there is so much more to it than the asanas, but I am sure you can understand my frustration, that I am no closer to being able to do Lotus, let alone half-lotus, than I was when I first started. I have been trying to be compassionate and patient with my body, but it does hold me back.

I do a lot of running, I run marathons and compete in triathlon, which I love, and don’t want to give up, but I think it is interesting that yoga helps me with these endevours, but it seems the opposite is true for how running effects yoga. Is that clear?

It is my ankles and my hips that hold me back. Very tight.

Anyway, I guess I want to know if others have taken this long, and longer to be able to sit in lotus? I have been wondering if some physio sessions might be a good idea, or if I just need to continue with my practice and eventually the asana will come?

Many thanks,
Kitty

#2

People often ask this question. You could use the search function to find “lotus” on this forum. You will find that many students have seriously damaged their knees when trying to enter lotus prematurely. Lotus has nothing to do with flexibility in your ankles. But you will find some hip opening poses that could help (like Inner Athlete’s hip opening series). You will find that some students need up to 10 years for lotus and others have to wait until their next life. Are you clear on your motives; why do you want to sit in lotus? Even for meditation, there are some very good alternatives (e.g. kneeling on a bench). Sorry to be so brief, I’m sure others will help too. Best wishes.

#3

Hi Willem,

Thank you for taking time to reply to my question. It is true that I have not searched this topic on the forum, and I will do so now.
It is a good point when you question my motives. For this particular point, I suppose it is true that in some way it is ego related. I just feel that not being able to do lotus is holding me back from being able to do so many asanas, especially in the Ashtanga series.

While I realise that Yoga is not about asana alone, I do get a very good feeling, that carries me well thoroughout my day when I have been able to achieve a posture which has previously aluded me. It does put me on a nutural high.

I mentioned my ankles, because I do feel pain in my ankles when I am trying to take the lotus pose. If I do manage to get my anke onto my thigh, it pushes so firmly into my thigh that my aknke and thigh are screaming for mercy ! Obviously at this point I abort!!

Anyway, your answer is very telling, it is obviusly an area where many people have problems, ie, waiting 10 years to a lifeltime to be able to achieve the posture.

I think some of it is that I am a caucasian living in Asia, and whilst I don’t like to generalise, and perhaps I am wrong, but Asians do seem to be very flexible. So I see my fellow classmates making it all look so easy and natural, and I am wondering ‘when will I be able to do that?’

#4

Well, don’t do that again. [I]The hips need to be flexible[/I], otherwise your knees and ankles will suffer. This is no trivial matter. The knee joint doesn’t give any warnings. It just pops a meniscus or a ligament. No good for marathon running.

And please forget about competition. That is not what yoga is about. We are all different, with different capabilities and qualities. You are good at triathlon. Instead, rejoice that your classmates can do lotus.

If you want to move in the direction of more flexible hips, why not ask your teachers for help? Could you schedule a private session with one of your teachers?

Since you cannot do half-lotus yet, there is some room for improvement. Please note that some people will never be able to do full lotus because of the shape of their bones.

In terms of preparatory poses, you could start off with positions 4 thu 8 of the joint freeing series. Do 6 - 12 reps on the rhythm of your breath. These are safe and very effective, in spite of their apparent simplicity. There are more difficult preparatory poses further down the road. These must be learned from a teacher to ensure that you are properly aligned. E.g. baddha konasana (bound angle pose) , gomukhasana (cow face), eka pada rajakapotanasana (one legged pigeon leaning forward), and agnistambhasana (fire log pose aka janu padasthilasana). Aadil’s Palkhivala’s “Hip opening series” works well, too. However, a teacher is essential to give alignment and safety instructions. Otherwise you will damage your knees and/or lumbar spine.

In case your teachers don’t give private sessions, I’ll pm you the name of a teacher in Singapore.

#5

Hello Kitty,

You’ve answered your own question.

“How come I can’t open my hips for lotus when I’m so attached to running which closes down the flexibility in my hips?”

Simply doing asana doesn’t mean one will have open hips. Taking classes form poorly trained instructors may also mean that you do not learn the difference between poses which open the hip and ones that require open hips. This may not be your situation at all. But it does happen quite frequently. Then students wonder why they’re not getting this or that.

For your stated goal you would need to work on external rotation of the hips (femur) and abduction. And that work would have to be very focused and at a frequency of at least twice per day to counter the repetitive flexion and extension of the hips you have chosen by running.

There is no mystery here and therefore no frustration since the results one experiences is fully from their choosing. As we say in class, change it or find the joy in it.

#6

I found this website to be helpful

zenmontpellier.site.voila.fr/eng/lotus/lotuseng.html
(you’ll have to copy and paste this into your browser bar as I can’t post links yet)

Just don’t expect anything to happen very quickly, I’ve been doing them occasionally for a couple of years, and have noticed only a slight opening of my hips.

#7

Thank you all for your responses. You have definitely given me ‘food for thought’.

I think I will, using the links you have provided me, put together a hip-opening series, and have an instructor from the studio where I practice help me run through it the first time. Private sessions are really out of my reach financially, so hopefully this will at least help me to make sure I am doing the postures correctly at the start. Our instructors are usuallly very happy for a student to spend 15 - 20 minutes with them after class if we need anything.

I unfortunately would not have time to do it twice a day consistently, but if I at least do it as often as possible, this would hopefully stop the tightness in my hips from getting any worse I think. And then I would hope that when the day comes that I am ready to hang up my running shoes, I will already be part way towards more open hips:).

#8

Perfect Kitty. Well processed.

#9

Often, the length of the femur head and the depth of your socket could mean this pose may never be available to you. It could be a simple matter of genetics. Perhaps, that will at least give you a reason to let this pose go and enjoy everything else. We all have poses we are good at, and ones we wish we were better at, I believe this is how we teach our ego humbleness.

#10

I am not a runner and the practical advise would be to do forward bends and hip openers like the pigeon but here’s a deviant thought- running backwards-there’s lot’s of interest in that and googling gets you a lot. Here’s a site that seems to be saying it’s the counter-pose to running forwards http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~btbates/backward/backward1.htm Namaste

#11

While I cannot currently move into pigeon because of knee pain, for some strange reason I can move into double pigeon. This is a huge hip opener for me and seems to help me with pirformis,sciatica type tightness and pain. I am fortunate to have a wonderful teacher…that, I believe, is the KEY.

#12

Iyengar says Virasana for the knees and props are appropriate in remedial conditions. I had bursitis so bad as a teenager- I had to quit being an altar boy but even then I had faith that things could be overcome through exercise and went into squats and knee lifts ( like leg extensions on a bench ) both with weights , my knees hurt worse for 2 weeks but after that hardly ever hurt me again. I kept up the exercise, of course. I can think of another non-yoga exercise perfect for weak knees; it looks a little sissy but you slightly dip the knees, prop the hands for support just above them and go in circles left and right, this gently exercises all the surrounding areas of the knee without much stress on the knee itself. I hope this helps, knees are pivotal. Namaste

#13

I’m an avid runner as well!! I find yoga helps me with running and running helps me with my yoga!! :wink:

But I’ve been doing half pigeon, which helps open up your hips!! I try to do it 3 times a day!! And I hold it for a good bit! I do it immediately after my runs as well!! You may find it may take some time but eventually you should be able to do Lotus!! Good luck to you

#14

[QUOTE=ericspin;28019]While I cannot currently move into pigeon because of knee pain, for some strange reason I can move into double pigeon. This is a huge hip opener for me and seems to help me with pirformis,sciatica type tightness and pain. I am fortunate to have a wonderful teacher…that, I believe, is the KEY.[/QUOTE]

I too have had major knee pain…but I kept practicing the half legged pigeon and I finally can do it without any pain at all!! But it took quite a lot of practice!!

#15

Everyone has said so many wonderful things here. Just chirping in to agree with some stuff.

Definitely don’t get caught up on it but I think it is totally healthy to have a goal of being able to do a challenging Asana. As long as you are not obsessing and you you are happy in the present moment, it is fine.

I 100% agree with what AlohaNeen and Inner Athlete said about frequency. Once you figure out what asanas you need to do to open your hips, you need to do them daily. You don’t have to make a big deal out of them. You can look at them as “stretches” and inject them into your day. Depending on what poses your teacher gives you, you don’t necessarily have to do a full yoga practice in order to do the stretches. Your running can act as a warm up and you can do the “stretches” immediately after.

I really like long holds for working with muscles that are slow to open. For instance, I will get into a reclined pigeon and hold it for 5 minutes on each side.

Something else I noticed is that you are involved in many different schools of yoga. Unless you do similar poses every time you practice, you may not have the consistency to get the results you like. For instance, I notice a big difference in my Ashtanga practice when I do it regularly as opposed to when I go back and forth between Ashtanga and Vinyasa.

The Ashtanga poses cause a methodical opening that happens with steady practice. That is one of the reasons the sequence is set. It requires great consistency to do Ashtanga the way you see it performed by people like Sharath,David Swenson and other great Ashtangis.

I am not saying that you should commit to one form of yoga, but that you should be aware that studying multiple versions of yoga at a time does effect your practice.

Even if you are practicing similar poses that work similar muscles, without actually consistently doing the actual pose that you are working towards, your progression will be slowed.

I would recommend getting the hips open with poses suggested by the teacher, and then working on the different versions of lotus once you can safely do them.

I know many people who have these totally awesome pigeons and frogs but they still cannot do lotus because they never work on Lotus.

#16

Hi Kitty,
There is really only one way to open the hips in preparation for lotus… slowly!
Take a look at this article on the World Yoga Network: Yin Yoga For Lotus Hips

It highlights all of the different muscle areas that need to be open in order to get into lotus and all of the way that they can be accessed.
With a bit of time and effort, lotus might become available to you. May you enjoy the journey.

#17

[QUOTE=Willem;27864]You will find that some students need up to 10 years for lotus and others have to wait until their next life.[/QUOTE]

I’ve “always” been able to sit in full lotus and it’s a bit surprising because I’m not very flexible otherwise. It’s been a little like I “got it for free”, and in a way it wasn’t fair to others who were in much better shape but could never sit in even half lotus. I thought about it a while ago and realised that in fact I had been “training” to get into full lotus for a long, long period of my life. As a kid, and even as a teenager (and sometimes still today) I would use the floor as a table. For playing back then, for drawing and painting still to this day. It’s a practical surface, things don’t fall off it as easily (or as far) as from a table. And how have I been sitting? In swastikasana, pretty much. For hours, daily, for several decades.

It’s a great meditation pose but there are lots of good alternatives and I use those too depending on how I feel and what time it is (lotus feels a little uncomfortable too close to a meal for instance). The fact that I can sit in lotus is less helpful to me in my daily life than in my hamstrings were less tight.