Thanks Madelaine, for sharing your personal experience. It really clarifies this topic for me.
Madelaine–Thanks for taking the time to address the issue so succinctly. HIGH TIMES magazine will be addressing the questions I’ve posed in the future. The responses from everyone have been extremely gratifying. This issue will be handled in a balanced fashion.
[QUOTE=Hubert;4819]Well, good for you than. I’m also having a beer once in a while, for it’s relaxing effects, but I don’t rely on that at all. If I would, that would be addiction. So I think we can conclude, that as long as we don’t depend on marijuana to experience certain states, we are safe.[/QUOTE]
Hubert,
the day I wrote I was really inspired by commentary of Sri Swami Satchidananda on Yoga Sutras. A part of his commentary on sutra II/15 is:…it’s all right to have anything, as long as you don’t let these things bring you anxiety and fear. If they come to you, let them come; enjoy their presence. But when they go, enjoy their departure too…
But my post didn’t really touched the topic about marijuana and was also not suitable answer to you. Apologies, if needed?
Hello everyone, this is an interesting subject for me.
I was born with a condition with the sensory information in my eyes being disrupted on its way to the brain, causing an inability to keep them and my head still. It looks like I am always in REM sleep more or less, and I have learned through my practices that it is a chakra and energetic issue… basically I feel like my energy will not circulate in smooth sucession, rather there are kinks in it which either make my head or some part of my body convulse or otherwise spasm if I attempt to contain them with my attention such as focusing in a particular area of the body.
Generally I am oblivious to it but when meditating it can be challenging to overcome.
It so happens marijuana has been shown to treat this condition however I do not live in a state with a medical marijuana program, lest I would certainly be growing some right now …
My experience with cannabis has been that it allows a massive amount of energy, which seems to be yang and course in nature (i am not sure of the yoga terms, nor am I sure of how it relates to the chakras and which channels it stimulates) but it has allowed me to penetrate into profound states of stillness, clear and empty mind in which I am aware that my mind is silent, and has even unified my energy channels, one running up, the other down, in the navel allowing me to become clear white light, my total being dissolving into it momentarily, for as long as I could keep my mind absolutely clear and non-judgemental.
It has also allowed deep stretching in yoga.
My dilemma is that I am not sure if it is okay to use this as a tool or a shortcut to attain deep spiritual states, there are so many different ideas. The Buddhists will say even if a psychedelic helps you, you should just meditate on your own anyway… but some will say psychedelics are spiritual medicine and are okay to use respectfully…
some will say moderation is the key. Some will say “I will work to elevate you just enough to bring you down”
the issue is why was I born with this? If it is drug karma, it most likely was from alcoholism or perhaps PCP, as they are the only two substances I know of that cause nystagmus… but what are past lives? See, how do you create reality with your words to either justify or not justify “drug” use when even the very word drug is a word invented to discriminate against “nature” and throughout history up until the US waged war on plants there was no such thing as drug, it was rather called “cannabis” “ganja” “sacrament” “medicine” “holy” etc… all our holy knowledge of sacred plants has been usurped by our malicious culture.
There is a terrible side to cannabis, the side that comes from smoke inhalation… I have noted that eating seems quite healthy and fine, and should one have a quality vaporizer this may be acceptable, but smoking in short never is unless perhaps one only does it very very rarely with super potent cannabis so next to no smoke goes in the body…
To think for oneself and to judge, is it alright to use a plant for spiritual exploration… vs to rely on other people’s views?
On the one hand it is like, you don’t have to do anything to earn the good feelings, to earn the psychedelic state, you just take and pay attention. This seems lazy and somehow wrong. On the other hand how many people will attain the realization of clear light while being stoned? They sit and watch TV right (i did too it was useless in the end and disrespectful to the plant and to my mind) … I’m the only person I know that considers marijuana psychedelic and sacred and powerful…
How do I decide what is right to do? Is cannabis a shortcut, are there no such things? Is it foolish to disregard such a useful tool that can allow you to shave excess noise out of your mind and be in your body? Is it a trick, a trap, only changing your brain chemistry and your energetic wiring so that you become state dependent?
Obviously it would be incorporated with regular regimens of sitting meditation and yoga and tai chi and my intention is only to see if it is useful, but there is the fear of something … and I wouldn’t have that fear if I lived in India amongst a lot of yogis that enjoyed cannabis and hashish, I have it because I live in a Christian nation where you can go to hell for disobediance and “it’s more harmful than you think” is flooded into our minds
but what IS objective reality? Does using a psychedelic sacrament hinder your path or accelerate it?
My best experience is with uses doses so subtle that you feel “natural” and “clear” the whole time, yet have the advent of a “shaved mind” and energy being released to flow however it is that the energy flows.
The marijuana dilemma extends into a Christian dilemma which is basically "can i trust myself or are there malicious spiders lurking trying to trick and deceive and kill me [i.e. the devil i.e. hell i.e. doing what authority tells you] i.e. is it just what it is, how it is useful and what it means to me, or what? It is a projection of the heaven hell schism I think.
a thought
in yoga the most important thing is breath and freeness of breath. I would think, but I could be wrong, that by breathing in smoke to our lungs, smoke is carcinogens, carcinogens are toxins. Smoking is a concentrated amount of these toxins all at once. therefore concentrating our lungs with these toxins, and therefore effecting our breath untill all these toxins are released. If anyone finds error in anything I have posted, please correct me. But my basic point is, you are affecting the number one part of yoga at a high concentration level
My best experience is with uses doses so subtle that you feel “natural” and “clear” the whole time, yet have the advent of a “shaved mind” and energy being released to flow however it is that the energy flows.
Maybe that is your answer? Everybody else can just guess what is the best for you, nobody else is in your body than you.
[quote=tubeseeker;4903]a thought
in yoga the most important thing is breath and freeness of breath. I would think, but I could be wrong, that by breathing in smoke to our lungs, smoke is carcinogens, carcinogens are toxins. Smoking is a concentrated amount of these toxins all at once. therefore concentrating our lungs with these toxins, and therefore effecting our breath untill all these toxins are released. If anyone finds error in anything I have posted, please correct me. But my basic point is, you are affecting the number one part of yoga at a high concentration level[/quote]
this is completely so, though marijuana has been shown to fight and destroy cancer and THC has many therepeutic properties.
the most important area of emphasis is that smoke inhalation of any kind is directly and verily harmful. in terms of cannabis itself it has been suggested by a recent study that smoking it may not cause cancer, perhaps because of the properties of THC
perhaps from many other things, i have heard tobacco is farmed with radioactive fertilizers or something of the sort which are the biggest contributers to cancer
Dear All,
I know this is a an old thread and saw it through a connection in another post, but if I may I would like to add my two cents. All of the above arguments for and against the use of mj is just fine and I wouldn’t like to add anything to those, because they focus on the physical and emotional aspects of using mj.
However, have any of you saw the aura of a person who smoked compared to a non-smoker who just did yoga? I did once and I can tell you the aura of the mj smoker was a mess, murky with dark spots over certain areas, especially the ajna and mooladhara chakra. Compared to the non-smoker’s aura which was beautiful and crystal clear with hues of gold and pink and violet. This experience was an immense eye opener for me.
Good point!
One of my teachers once said: To take drugs in any form is like using a credit in the bank, one day we have to pay it back.
I agree with inner athlete. Why should we try to purify our body and soul through Yoga if we later intoxicate it again with marihunana or other substances?
For me Yoga means to wake up, to be aware and Mariuhana makes the human sleepy and dull.
All the best
Lars
[quote=Pandara;9346]Dear All,
I know this is a an old thread and saw it through a connection in another post, but if I may I would like to add my two cents. All of the above arguments for and against the use of mj is just fine and I wouldn’t like to add anything to those, because they focus on the physical and emotional aspects of using mj.
However, have any of you saw the aura of a person who smoked compared to a non-smoker who just did yoga? I did once and I can tell you the aura of the mj smoker was a mess, murky with dark spots over certain areas, especially the ajna and mooladhara chakra. Compared to the non-smoker’s aura which was beautiful and crystal clear with hues of gold and pink and violet. This experience was an immense eye opener for me.[/quote]
interesting, marijuana seems to open one to lower astral realms in the principality of the solar plexus where a lot of fear, terror, and bad energy exists
least this is what happened last time i tried it
at high high doses it spins the heart chakra open into a time-lessness like advanced taiji where one cannot move unless one uses their mind to navigate reality, otherwise they are in eternal stillness for a period of time
and it does calibrate astral vision however it seems to not be worth it as it seems to cause a blockage in the third eye center
i would assume that this also depends on whether the marijuana was cultivated by greedy heartless and evil people or by someone with great love and devotion, as to what plane of consciousness it induces
[quote=InnerAthlete;4747]
… If you have let go of attachment and aversion, if your sensations are heightened around the clock, if you are more mindful of words before they leave you lips, your language has refined and thus so has your mind, you’ve connected more deeply with your purpose for being here and you more authentically express outwardly that light this is YOU within, then you are being served by your life choices.[/quote]
Thanks, IA (Gordon) this is so beautifully expressed. At one stage in my life I had some of these qualities… Where did they dissipate or get lost?
Is this one definition of self awareness?
This write up made me realise why I commit to Yoga, thanks & my blessing to you.
[quote=Pandara;9346]Dear All,
I know this is a an old thread and saw it through a connection in another post, but if I may I would like to add my two cents. All of the above arguments for and against the use of mj is just fine and I wouldn’t like to add anything to those, because they focus on the physical and emotional aspects of using mj.
However, have any of you saw the aura of a person who smoked compared to a non-smoker who just did yoga? I did once and I can tell you the aura of the mj smoker was a mess, murky with dark spots over certain areas, especially the ajna and mooladhara chakra. Compared to the non-smoker’s aura which was beautiful and crystal clear with hues of gold and pink and violet. This experience was an immense eye opener for me.[/quote]
Well said :). I was about to say something similiar. I’m not sure why people associate the feeling you get from being high from marijuana as being the same as a Spiritual experience or an enhancement, this is simply not true at all. The aura doesn’t lie.
I study Buddhism as well as yoga, and as far as I’ve ever heard, the general Buddhist attitude toward hallucinogenic drugs is that in and of themselves, they are neutral. Maybe even useful if the awareness they bring gets one started doing the real work of meditation - but in general, the visions and insights brought about by these drugs are [I]maya[/I] and get you no further toward real awareness than a cup of coffee. I’ve always believed they have no place in a practice. Just my $.02 - I used to smoke as well.
[quote=InnerAthlete;4734]
“Happiness is not attained through self-gratification but through fidelity to a worthy purpose”[/quote]
May I ask from where this quote is ?
Sri Swami Sivananda says in his Amrita Gita: “Hatha means any tenacious practice till the object or end is achieved.”
Your quote specifies the nature of purpose, too, that of being a worthy one …
Id just like to point out that it might help to attempt to remove the stigma associated with mj, especially the one provided by the athletic world. I dont always use it before practice, but there are times when my practice demands that I leave my mind open in a way that I cant reach alone at this time. I expect that as I mature and grow in my practice, the natural focus will overshadow the implemented one and I wont use it for practice anymore. It is like a band aid that allows me to practice when I am feeling to pained or stressed or sad to focus. I have been told by yoga teachers in the past that it is ok to ‘fake it’ through certain asanas or transitions between them, if you just are not there yet. I consider the use of a substance to help me achieve focus and breath awareness a way of faking it when I am just not there. In that state I am also often more open to criticism of myself… my ego does not get as involved.
I do believe that many people are very different under the influence, im sure it is not right for everyone.
Just because you have one feeling doesn’t mean that everyone feels the same way, and this includes being high. Marijuana, and other hallucinogens can cause spiritual experiences. Whether these drug-induced experiences are authentic or even “worth it” to the user are completely up to him/her.
I doubt if mj can “cause” a spiritual experience, the two are worlds apart. What I do think can happen is that drugs may be able to effect a temporary expansion of conscious to be inclusive rather than to be exclusive. The sad part is that our human nature love to desire things and this desire to repeat the experience over and over, becomes a bad habit (attachment) which cause us ultimately pain and suffering.
Very well put.
I should choose words more fit for my message. The quality of experience depends on one’s mindset. Those rooted in a spiritual life may have a spiritual experience under the influence of mind-expanding plants and fungi. I also believe that these “spiritual experiences” can be infinitely diverse.
And yes, you’re definitely correct on the repetitive nature of wanting the experience over and over again, rather than “letting go and letting it flow.”
Those who continually use mind expanding substances for spiritual experience will ultimately see that their quest for wisdom and unity can only continue further outside of the psychedelic realm. Otherwise, it is another attachment.
I think you have just hit the nail on the head. It is only when we are free of all desire, even the desire to be enlighten or to be One with the Divine, or to make spiritual progress, only when all desire stops, then the Divine can allow its magic to touch our lives. 