I know a lot about both. Yoga is a much broader term. It includes all of the religions including zen. Buddha practised yoga. There is hatha yoga, bhakti yoga, raja yoga and others. The ultimate goal of them is the same.
Zen may emphasize the term enlightenment whereas wikipedia says that in yoga the goal is a perfect state of consciousness. Which term do you like better. Do you like car or automobile better? Yes it comes down to individual teachers.
You could literally write a book on the different types of zen and of yoga. There are many different kinds. Look at all the sects of Christian Protestants. People could ask what is the best type of yoga.
Yoga and zen are linked. But they are different in their goals. Hatha yoga is based on unifiying the mind and body. Zen is based on cultivating awareness. Jahna yoga would be closer to zen. In essence, zen and yoga have similar goals in cultivating mans link with his inner higher self.
Its just that zen and yoga are practiced in such different settings. Very different scenes and mentalities.
But over all, innner silence is inner silence weither you are in a dojo or an ashram…
I have done some Zen meditation and not so much yoga meditation but from what I have read in this post and what little I really know about yoga meditation I would have to say that I will listen to what Pandara said and thank you Pandara for that, I was wondering about Yoga meditation recently and about the differences from what I have been taught in other types of meditation.
As to Zen Meditation; not all Zen Meditation involved koans. Looking to Pandara’s list and applying that to what little Zen Mediation I have done
Following your breath is most important however resting on an object is not nor is a mantra (koan) although there have been some Taoist based and Tibetan based Qigong forms of meditation I have done that did have the need for observing an object but none had any sort of mantra (and that is of topic - sorry)
As to guided meditation my little experience with Zen has none but again going a bit off topic there was a Tibetan form that did something similar
What the focus of any Zen meditation I have done has been being present and or mindful. Thoughts were not to be suppressed or forced away but observed and allowed to pass, as I was once told think of them as boats on a river passing by. But I have also been told they are like monkeys screaming for attention that if ignored just get louder and if watched eventually they will go away. However there are different types of Zen meditation and different sub sects of Zen so I can only speak of my little experience with it and I am most certainly not and expert on the topic so take it for what it is worth
Also Zen origin has been mentioned here so where does Zen Come from?
Answer: India.
Buddhism came out of India and went to China where it combined with some Taoism and Confucianism and became Chan Buddhism which went to Japan and became Zen Buddhism but there are sub sects of these that do not always look at things exactly the same.
EDIT
I Needed to add something
Not all Zen Meditation today is actually Buddhist. It has in places become a thing all its own that can be done without Buddhism and it can be, and has been, applied to multiple other secular and non-secular practices
Yes there are many variations in zen meditation.
I just dont focus on anything particular, not my breath, not my toughts, not my body, not on mantras or mudras.
But what gets my attention is the breath power in my body, or prana.
So if I focus, I tend to focus on this peaceful feeling, and am aware this is my energy body. I just enjoy its presence.
Can everyone explain what to meditate on?
Some zen masters will put it this way;
When meditating one should not think, but one should not think anout not thinking also.
In other words, meditation is an exercise in ‘‘not doing’’. One has to learn to let go of his natural urge to move mentaly anf physicaly.
You dont have to focus on anything. When you do have thoughts, just let them happen, and dont give them much attetion. You will have different stimulus from your overall senses, just do the same thing, dont give any special attention to anything.
Although, some masters prescribe to focus on the half lotus meditation posture. And some say to focus on the breathing. Its your job to try out these different techniques and see what suits you the best.
I could say that you can focus on something, that should be a feeling of peace inside your body. Monks seek to be in samadhi, which is a state of great inner peace.
Over all, when you meditate, you can succeed in slowing your thought process, in diminishing your brains activity. But rarely can one expect to completely stop the mind, even experienced practitionners.
I would recommend you to read different books on zen meditation. Its always good to have many different point of views from different authors.
AUM…
[QUOTE=B Redmond;5091]does anybody have any experience with both zen meditation and yoga meditation? I am curious as to the differences. Im pretty sure Buddhism was influenced by Yoga, right? Didn’t the Gautama Buddha study from Yogis during his soul-searching period? I know zen is a chinese innovation, but im guessing that there are some similarities. I could look for this information online, but how can i really compare descriptions of activites that need to be experienced. Im hoping somebody out there has tried both. I hope this is not too esoteric.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Zen is a misinterpreted form of Yog…
Yog is meant to unite the Individual soul (jīvātmā) with Paramātmā (Cosmic Soul or The Supersoul)…
Zen is aimed at annihilating the mind, zenists believe that as long as there is mind, there are desires and due to desires a soul is embodied following its karmic bondage…to an extent this is right…but it is not absolutely right. As ego, cannot be annihilated. Zenists first try to impose on themselves that they are zero, the world is zero…when they reach that stage of millions of births of practice, they realize that zero also is an entity…
so Zenists then try to practice zazen, to erase the remaining consciousness that i’m nothing. but this is unnatural so they cannot quite achieve this.
here is where they differ from Yog…
Yog (not Pata?jali, that is an atheistic form of Yog, the Original Yog Texts are to be found in Jābāl Darśan Yog Upaniṣad that are much older Texts than Pata?jal Yog sūtras) propounds that desire is a form of energy, it cannot be annihilated (even the modern science confirms this, no new energy can be created or annihilated, they can only be converted)…
So, the Yog doesn’t annihilate the mind or desires, they change its direction from material world to spiritual world.
This is the kindergarten level of Bhakti Yog.
There are different types of yog, but if i am asked, i’d say all other yogas simply beat around the bush, Bhakti Yog directly addresses the Self.
in short, zen is destructive in nature, Yog is constructive in nature. Zen believes in the kill, Yog believes in the cure.
However, you may absorb some LIght from the Śrīmad Bhagavad Gītā (Try and find the authentic version, don’t fall into interpretation and commentaries)…for a more comprehensive view of Yog.
Your servant,
Sadāśiv Rām Kṛpālu Dās
[QUOTE=Reunion;19802]AUM…
Yeah, Zen is a misinterpreted form of Yog…
Yog is meant to unite the Individual soul (jīvātmā) with Paramātmā (Cosmic Soul or The Supersoul)…
Zen is aimed at annihilating the mind, zenists believe that as long as there is mind, there are desires and due to desires a soul is embodied following its karmic bondage…to an extent this is right…but it is not absolutely right. As ego, cannot be annihilated. Zenists first try to impose on themselves that they are zero, the world is zero…when they reach that stage of millions of births of practice, they realize that zero also is an entity…
so Zenists then try to practice zazen, to erase the remaining consciousness that i’m nothing. but this is unnatural so they cannot quite achieve this.
here is where they differ from Yog…
Yog (not Pata?jali, that is an atheistic form of Yog, the Original Yog Texts are to be found in Jābāl Darśan Yog Upaniṣad that are much older Texts than Pata?jal Yog sūtras) propounds that desire is a form of energy, it cannot be annihilated (even the modern science confirms this, no new energy can be created or annihilated, they can only be converted)…
So, the Yog doesn’t annihilate the mind or desires, they change its direction from material world to spiritual world.
This is the kindergarten level of Bhakti Yog.
There are different types of yog, but if i am asked, i’d say all other yogas simply beat around the bush, Bhakti Yog directly addresses the Self.
in short, zen is destructive in nature, Yog is constructive in nature. Zen believes in the kill, Yog believes in the cure.
However, you may absorb some LIght from the Śrīmad Bhagavad Gītā (Try and find the authentic version, don’t fall into interpretation and commentaries)…for a more comprehensive view of Yog.
Your servant,
Sadāśiv Rām Kṛpālu Dās[/QUOTE]
Um I don’t want to start a problem here but you are very wrong about zen
Eliminating desire is correct but the rest is way off base, sorry.
Zen comes from Chan which comes from Mahayana Buddhism which does have a link to Hinduim but you might want to read up on zen a bit, there is some here
The above link is where the following quote comes from
Both the words “Zen” (Japanese) and “Ch’an” (Chinese) derive from the Sanskrit word Dhyana, meaning “meditation.” Zen Buddhism focuses on attaining enlightenment (bodhi) through meditation as Siddharta Gautama did. It teaches that all human beings have the Buddha-nature, or the potential to attain enlightenment, within them, but the Buddha-nature been clouded by ignorance. To overcome this ignorance, Zen rejects the study of scriptures, religious rites, devotional practices, and good works in favor of meditation leading to a sudden breakthrough of insight and awareness of ultimate reality. Training in the Zen path is usually undertaken by a disciple under the guidance of a master.
More here
The above link is where the following quote comes from
Zen is a school of Buddhism which emphasises the practice of meditation as the key ingredient to awakening ones inner nature, compassion and wisdom. The practice of meditation (Zen in Japanese) as a means of attaining enlightenment was introduced, as we have seen, by the Buddha himself. Zen approached Buddhism in the most direct, simple and practical way. It grasped that enlightenment was the most fundamental aspect of Buddhism and thus did away with sacred scriptures, rituals and objects of worship, all of which had become a major aspect of Mahayana Buddhism in India.
And I can recommend a few books to if you like
I disagree with Reunion…
Zen is not a misinterpretation of yoga… Its a system derived from Bramanism and Buddhism. But there is nothing quite like zen, its a unique approach to self awareness, different from other systems.
And zen is not aimed at annihilating the mind… The goal in zen is to stop the inner dialogue, which block ones ability to see the true nature of spirit, the higher self. Zen embrases the mind, zen is a way to free the mind…
AUM…
[QUOTE=batsugun;19855]’'
Zen is not a misinterpretation of yoga… Its a system derived from Bramanism and Buddhism. But there is nothing quite like zen, its a unique approach to self awareness, different from other systems.
And zen is not aimed at annihilating the mind… The goal in zen is to stop the inner dialogue, which block ones ability to see the true nature of spirit, the higher self. Zen embrases the mind, zen is a way to free the mind…[/QUOTE]
Thank you bastsgun for your kind review on that but i think going through the annals would perhaps make my points clear to you…
i mean the origin of zen…
oK, now the second point that zen is a way to free the mind, as you suggested…
what is mind, it is nothing else than aggregate of our desires, images, and conditioning of past births…this is called as Saṁskār in Sanskṛt language.
as you stated zen aims to block the inner dialogue…dialogue between whom? the conscious and the subconscious minds…so eventually it is practiced to block the mind only…
Regards,
Rām Kṛpālu Dās
I’ve been doing zen meditation for 13 years… Sometimes in zen centers, but most of the time by my self.
What I can say to you Reunion is that it is a powerful tool for finding inner peace. Zen is also a powerful tool to cultivate awareness and concentration.
Zen is a way to reach the energy body, just like yoga. Zen like yoga is the practice of unification of body, mind and spirit.
I practiced hatha yoga for years also. From personnal experience, I would say that in each of these systems are very similar in there goals.
Aum…
thanks batsugun for your kind reply…
let me clarify to your that i never intended to belittle zen, i simply made my points in difference of their approach…
i’ve undergone zen for a very short period as i got attracted to the Yog…i don’t believe anything is wrong with the world, i see the problem with perception.
anyway, thanks for your advice…according to Samskāras, all the souls have to take a particular work material, until they are confronted by a Guru, who changes their lives and their Being…
Regards,
Rām Kṛpālu Dās
I read some where zen originated from jnana (knowledge), a Sanskrit word.
Hello Prasad: Zen originated from Buddha himself. With the act of giving the flower to mahakashyapa, one of his followers who was the only one who started smiling with great depth in his understanding at the point when the Buddha raises a flower in his hand in front of all his followers, just admiring the flower. At that point He understood Buddha truly and the Buddha knew that he had understood. So the flower was given to Mahakashyapa. It was the purest, most direct and abstract messages of the Buddha that only Mahakashyapa had understood, out of all his bystanders. That is the moment Zen was born. From there it has traveled far and through many countries.
The purest and most basic forms and lineages of Zen do not know/preach meditation and achievement. They are purely about being, resting as you are. All [I]buddhist[/I] zen meditations are of a different kind that Zen itself.
Also please know that what the Buddha taught and said is not necessarily very well resembled in buddhism. In fact I feel a great gap in understanding in modern buddhism of the Buddha’s true teaching. But that seems to be a natural mistake in every religion. To make too many assumptions and to take things too literally what has been said by the master of that specific religion (Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, etc.). For the root of any teaching, search only for the words that came directly from the masters themselves instead of listening to interpretations of interpretations. That may or will get you lost in tradition and illusion. Not that tradition necessarily equals illusion, but when not seen for what it truly is and followed on the words and concepts of that tradition, then it does equal illusion.
Love,
Bentinho.
[I]What is Zen?[/I] One answer…
Inayat Khan tells a Hindu story of a fish
who went to a queen fish and asked: "I have
always heard about the sea, but what is this sea?“
Where is it”
The queen fish answered: “You live, move and have
your being in the sea. The sea is within you and
without you, and you are made of sea, and you will
end in sea. The sea surrounds you as your own being.”
From [I]Zen Flesh, Zen Bones[/I]
Nancy
[quote=aka360Yogini;22582][I]What is Zen?[/I] One answer…
Inayat Khan tells a Hindu story of a fish
who went to a queen fish and asked: "I have
always heard about the sea, but what is this sea?“
Where is it”[/quote]
Nancy,
your story reminds me of another fish story told by some great professor of whom I forgot the name. Two young fish were swimming along one morning, along came an older fish and said, morning boys, how’s the water today. The two young fish looked very puzzled and swam on, after a while they stopped and the one looked to the other and asked, what on earth is water?
So many are in the water and they don’t even know it. That is the simplicity of Zen for me, to realise that you are in the water.
Hi Pandara,
Yes, David Foster Wallace, the young American literary giant, novelist and essayist, also taught creative writing at Pomona College until he unfortunately took his own life. He suffered from depression. You’re probably referring to his commencement speech at Kenyon College in which he used the famous Zen ‘fish’ story to inspire the graduates.
We swim together in simplicity!
[quote=aka360Yogini;22588]Hi Pandara,
Yes, David Foster Wallace, the young American literary giant, novelist and essayist, also taught creative writing at Pomona College until he unfortunately took his own life. He suffered from depression. You’re probably referring to his commencement speech at Kenyon College in which he used the famous Zen ‘fish’ story to inspire the graduates.
We swim together in simplicity![/quote]
thanks for reminding me, he is the one I am refering to.
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