Mental Development from Yoga(ish) practice

[quote=louise molenkamp;13664]Dear dr. datta,
there have been many scientist thinking they found solid proof,
but do we still believe the world is flat?
there is proof for things now people could not have imagened long time ago.
science also accepts proof from many experiences based on empiric proof. Why is it not so with yoga?
Same as if you try to explain love with reason you will never see the point.
what is it you are looking for in yoga?
namaste louise[/quote]
Dear Louise,
thanks for your comments which are always negative. I have seen your utmost attempt to discredit the scientific endeavour in the journey of Yoga understanding. Being in the forum with a negative setup of mind does not augur well with the discussion atmosphere. This blogs are places where everybody will have some educative approach, learn something positive, not the untiring railing. This is absolutely UNYOGIC when students look for better educational environment. Please try to be sober and quote books or literature than your own mind.
with sincere regards
Datta

Dear Mr Pandara,
thanks for your good words.
Yesterday I was reading the translations of GITA by Eknath Easwaran where there is a good discussion on UPANISHAD in the initial pages. Actually Shri Krishna presented the Upanishad so fruitfully in Gita that we donot have to go through whole courses of Upanishad and in Upanishad has the discussions of your thoughts and approach of Yoga. Sankhya— is the place where Eknath found the modern Physics analogical views corroborated thousands of years away. This is really fantastic. They had approach similar long back. However we have to work more to unravel the truth behind and teach students in the line of modern language.
Thanks for your holding the cudgels of yoga untiringly
with kind regards
Datta

Most of this thread has degraded into debating science and claiming baseless belief as fact. Both I think can be misleading.
The absence of proof of everything else, does not confirm the improbable. And feelings, however overpowering they are can easily be manipulated (intentionally or otherwise). People have a way of seeing what they want to see, hearing what they want to hear, I suggest you all make every effort to be unbiased.

Whilst similarly, there is plenty that none of us can understand, and in everything we do we deal with incomplete information, no science is certain, much of it will continue to be re-written.

Although I must say that there have been a couple of helpful and insightful posts which are very much appreciated. Thank you.

Namate Aaron,

This is the nature of a Forum and posts like these on the net, they have a life of their own and may take any route. I think it is for the participants as well as for the originator of such a thread important to recognise this and remain unbiased in evaluating the life that the post has taken.

So may it be science or baseless belief, it doesn’t matter, somewhere out there somebody might have benefited from the content of this post and who are we then to pass an evaluation on that? :slight_smile:

It is silly to think that there can be no agression, negativism, or critcism in debates on yoga. If I learnt something, that is the need for people to be shaken.
The natural tendency of anyone is to avoid distress, to create stability and safety. Yet this artificial safety is an illusion. We are not safe… We are not free. We are not happy. Happiness is not the balance of many illusions, but the experience of the reality behind those illusions. And because we are conditioned, and fond of our illusions (what, for us are real forces shaping our destiny), getting rid of these “illusions” is never pleasant.
It takes great honesty, and courage, and uncompromising love of truth to arrive to Reality. The Word is a double edged sword. Swords cut, and hurt.

It is the resposnabilty of the Master to know when the disciple is ready to be cut open. Otherwise it is pointless cruelty, what throws the disciple back, instead of helping him move forward. That’s why real masters are not seen. Few can bear their sight, their presence, so they are hiding. Those who are on the Way, are invisible to those who are not, simply because the latter lack the ability to asess real merit. They seek illusions, fame, power, excitement, achievement. The Way is not any of these.

PS. What yoga does is it stills all aspects of our being so through that tranquil state, Reality can make it’s appearance. Siddhis, or perfections of the mind, are still maya. We can study maya to great extents, but the ultimate goal it is it’s dissolution.

Brother aaron,
i went back and reread your original post to me this quote stood out the most.

“I have spent many years pursuing further development and understanding of my mind, can anyone tell me if these obstacles I have met are exagerated claims that can’t be realised, or truths that require a different approach to understanding, or simply require more time?”

in my life i have searched to understand the mind as well. i have gone many different paths, religion, eating, expercise, study of psychology, etc… the reason i like yoga, is with proper instruction one looks at all aspects of life.

the obsticle of us understanding the mind is that we are trying to understand what is, imho, way beyond our ability to understand in our current level of understanding. if you find a way to quiet down the mind it may end up being revealed to you. So how do you find a way to calm the mind? use your logic, find the way that seems to call you to it, and then once you choose a way let go of analyzing and questioning. Then after sincere mindless/mindful effort if it does not work, choose another path and then try to become mindless again.

the crazy thing about understanding is it only seems to come after experience, not before. Teachers say do this, this, and this and student says “i dont understand” then teacher says “stop focusing on what you dont understand and focus on what i am telling you to do” Then all the sudden, somehting clicks and student does it right and says “oh, i understand now” So how do we focus without tension? we may understand the mind once we transcend it, but i dont think we could before we transcend it.
I can appreciate it is not always an easy path. i wish you the best on yours.
we are love, we are joy, we are peace,
whether we understand it or not :slight_smile:
brother neil

This reminds me of the parable of the man shot by an arrow and demanding to know who shot him before they took it out.

I agree with Aaron. I only trust the mind. The heart can lead me into situations that are not in my best interest. I was told to keep intellect over emotion.

[QUOTE=Aaron;12500]…

Anyway, over the years a lot of people have preached with absolute confidence of the things that can be achieved through focussing the mind.

… There are people who will say that you can achieve great physical feats (beyond your natural capabilities). Then you’ve got the yogi claims, healing energies and more.

… can anyone tell me if these obstacles I have met are exagerated claims that can’t be realised, or truths that require a different approach to understanding, or simply require more time?

[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure if Aaron is still watching his thread, so I’ll address my comments to readers in general.

Aaron seems to be trying to obtain yogic results without studying yoga. If he were to study yoga, Aaron might realize that, although the ability to focus the mind is a prerequisite, one does not achieve results in yoga simply by focusing the mind. One has to learn to work with the breath, with subtle energies, and with levels of consciousness that transcend the mind.

Aaron is also a little hazy about what it is he wants to accomplish. The yoga sutras contain many examples of results that can be obtained through the practice of samyama (I think that’s what its called). Anyway, some of the siddhis are more fantastic than others. One has to choose where he wants to focus his energy. And one has to be properly prepared in order to receive some of the more advanced teachings.

I personally was drawn to yoga after hearing about a heart surgeon who was known for performing multiple marathon surgeries on very little sleep. His secret? Yoga. So yes, I would say that yoga can be effective in producing what might be considered super-normal results.

Aaron needs to lose his aversion for yoga first of all.

Aaron,

“I’ve delved deap into the development of the mind.”

In coming to the Way, it is not a matter of developing the mind, but in moving beyond mind. But even if limited to the development of the mind, that was ones first mistake - to assume that one has delved deep into it when it is far more likely that one has just scratched the surface.

" Yoga isn’t for me, we all have our paths to walk and yoga isn’t part of mine."

As any method whatsoever which leads you towards your awakening is a method towards Yoga, that is an impossibility.

“Turning exercise into a kind of meditation. But not yogi meditation… closer to Zen.”

Zen too is a kind of yoga. The approach of Zen is to use meditation as a means towards enlightenment. It is fundamentally a kind of Raja Yoga. Any method which uses meditation as the method for the expansion of consciousness can be called Raja Yoga.

“As far as I can tell, all of the mysticism is a load of bs.”

I would like you to be aware that “mysticism” has little to do with beliefs or philosophy, it simply refers to a method for the expansion of consciousness towards a direct realization of Truth. Like yoga, any method towards this can be called mysticism. One who practices such methods is called a mystic.

“tell me if these obstacles I have met are exagerated claims that can’t be realised, or truths that require a different approach to understanding, or simply require more time?”

Exaggerated or not, as far as ones own path is concerned, these obstacles may be very real. But one should be clear - that identifying obstacles is not an analytical process. Because through analysis - all that you will have is an interpretation of the mind. What is needed is not analysis - but observation. To observe means to see things in the moment, as they are, without judgement, without forming an attachment to whatever may arise in your experience. If you observe the workings of your mind, only then can you truly detect these obstacles. They are to be recognized in daily living itself, and outside of this - all else is just pure speculation, even though some of ones speculations may have fragments of truth to it.