Mixed Question Yoga Ettiquette and Yoga with Plantar Fasciitis

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello. My name is Laura and I have come here every once and a while from Googling yoga questions so I thought I would ask one. I searched the forum but did not find precisely what I am looking for. I see people like to have a lot of information so I will offer some.

[B]Physical[/B]
I am 27 5’9" with a tall yet stocky build. I am 230 lbs but nothing seems to help lower that much. I eat fairly decently but do like to enjoy myself. I am active almost every day either running or walking or yoga or volleyball or something. I have partially tore MCL and replaced ACL in left knee (from karate). I have Thyroid nodules but blood tests come back ok, could be why the weight though, thyroid problems run in the family. We are all a little overweight but the only people in my family who die under 80 die in car accidents so it doesnt cause that many health problems. I am much more active than my family.

[B]History[/B]
About two years ago I had a psycho doctor who kept blaming every medical problem I have on my weight. She had me on a low low carb diet and protein shakes and wanted me to do moderate cardio for an hour every day so I took up running. Running ended up being great therapy for dealing with my doctor who eventually told me I must need to see a therapist. Running caused plantars fasciitis so I toned down the running. An emergency massage at a festival brought me to a therapist who owns a yoga/hollistic healing center and he told me my calves are seriously tight causing the bone spurs and I should do yoga. So I started yoga (I had previously done yoga throughout college at the gym but had stopped since I moved for about 2 years) the therapist also recommended yoga for the emotional/mental benefits. So I got into yoga and this time not just the physical. That was a year ago. Now I love it. Yoga is a huge part of my life. I still run but not as far or as often.

[B]Problem[/B]
My feet hurt a lot in yoga, they always have, even in college. Now they hurt REALLY bad because of the fascia problems. I also have heel spurs. Massage helps but I cannot afford a weekly massage anymore so I am not getting as much help. I ussually do hatha or vinyassa yoga a mixture of some faster and some slower but nothing as repetitive or quick as the sun sals in Ashtanga (which kill my shoulders). However, lately I cannot even get through the first half of the class without my feet killing me, especially in warrior poses and balance poses transitioned from warrior (coming into warrior 3 from mountain pose is not painful but from warrior 2 is). Just walking on the wood for barefoot is painful but this is plain excruciating.

So I have been going to classes still (my home practice is not developing quickly) but when it hurts bad enough to stop me I start a mat excersize to stretch out the problem areas and sit on my calves (I cant remember that poses name) and join back in when I can. Sometimes I cannot rejoin so I continue to do a more mat based class by myself or if it hurts really bad and I cant control my emotions I leave.

My two mixed questions are (1) is it okay to wear a pair of vibram barefoot shoes to class? I tried on a pair in the store and they make a marked difference in how I hold my feet. I will only wear them indoors, since I am not supposed to walk barefoot. My doctor told me the benefits of the yoga stretching should outway the small amount of time my feet are on the bare floor but would prefer I wear something. I also have orthodic sandals to wear around. I am told it is bad ettiquette to wear shoes and socks, which brings me to number (2).

Me and a few people were just chatting with a teacher after class who is currently in her 500 hour teacher training. A few other teachers I take are also in the class and the owner of the studio I most go to is teaching it. She was discussing her trainer saying how it is rude to do poses that the teacher does not suggest and how most other places call people out on that. Now the first time I go to a class that does that to me would be when I get very non yoga on that person. Honestly I am the customer and I know my body more than anyone. I really have been put off from this and have not gone to one of her classes since. If I cannot do alternate poses then I have no point going to any other class until my problem is fixed yet everyone keeps perscribing me yoga to fix it. So question (2) is it okay for me to do the mat exercises? I am not going to pay someone to be in childs pose for half a class. That is one of the worst suggestions i have heard, especially since childs pose hurts my feet more. Is there a type of yoga I can go to where there are less rules on etiquette, because honestly its getting more frustrating to go to yoga than to not because of these “rules.” I was told I should let the teacher give me alternatives, but frankly these people are not physical therapists. 200 hour training is honestly not someone I would put in charge of that part of my life. Even 500 hour training does not trump my doctor or PT.

#2

Hi Laura,
To answer your first question, sure, I think it’s ok to wear something on your feet if it makes them feel better. One of my teachers (who has been teaching for 20+ years) wears something on one foot while she teaches (I suspect one leg is shorter and she just wears this thing all the time). I had one student with severe feet problems who wore tennis shoes to class, but she talked to me about it and told me it made her feet feel better than being barefoot. I had no problem with it.

Second, regarding the etiquette “rules”, I would suggest you talk to your teacher about what her expectations are. It is a little weird and disruptive when the whole class is doing floor stretches, for example, and someone else is doing sun salutations or handstands. But in your case, you’re just sitting out of the poses that are bothersome for you. That happens all the time. I’ll usually ask the student if they would like a modification that would be more appropriate for them. Sometimes they just want to sit a pose out. That’s ok. You could also talk to the teacher before or after class about which poses are most bothersome for your feet/shoulders and ask for alternatives.

Being at the 500 hour level doesn not make the teacher omniscient. I know several teachers who launched into the 500 hour training right after their 200 hour training, with very little teaching experience. Not that that’s bad…but experience is more an indication of a capable teacher than 500 hour credentials.

#3

Hi Laura,

I do so appreciate the thoroughness of your question. Knowing something about you, your practice, and your background provide the necessary intake for a response to a therapeutic question (plantar fasciitis issue).

First the issue of nutrition. While many brands or flavors of yoga do state that nutrition is part and parcel, very few actually do any sort of teaching around the topic. I base this on my personal experience in many, many classes of all sorts over the last 11 years. In the yoga that I teach we are very specific about the lifestyle and nutrition component of the practice. It is not a matter of being perfect. It is, as with all things, a continual refinement towards healthy living.

When a student is slow to heal or failing to heal or has a chronic, ongoing issue or has a known challenge with thyroid function, that student’s nutrition mandates added attention. The nutritional approach in yoga is never about weight loss but always about getting the body to move toward healthier states. For some that is actually gaining weight:-) My point is that the consumption of certain foods AND the avoidance of others is absolutely paramount in the healing process. This is a topic unto itself and I’ll not go further with it here.

Relative to manners, politeness, etiquette and rude…these things will vary from teacher to teacher. Unfortunately there aren’t many sound yoga teacher training programs. As a result there are a lot of odd things being taught, requested, demanded, and defended.

It is not rude to do a different practice during a regular class. It is [I]disrespectful[/I] when the student does so “out of integrity” with the teacher, for their own non-therapeutic reasons. It is absolutely appropriate for a student to be modified in class when there IS a therapeutic issue. To this day, after 8 years of study and 2,000-hours of training I still go to my teacher in class and ask for modifications. I am, just now, at a point where I can suggest my own modifications and receive a nod, query, or other suggestion in return. This is part of the relationship between teacher and student.

Unfortunately there aren’t many sound yoga teacher trainings AND there are some practices of asana which do not inherently provide room in their curriculum for “change” or alteration. Further there is a propensity on the part of some teachers to use Balasana or Adho Mukha Svanasana as the only recourse for a student who can’t do __________. In these cases the student must weigh whether said style is appropriate for who/where/what they are at this moment in time.

The studio environment should be very clean for the practice. We bring enough gunk on our own such that additional tracking form the outside should be left at the door. It is for this reason that shoes are removed - a sense of cleanliness which may be associated with the concept of Saucha, one of the five Niyama. If you, as my student, need to wear vibrams, please buy a pair only for use inside the yoga studio and keep them immaculately clean. In this way you will not be tracking the outside to the inside AND can honor your body’s needs. Generally socks and shoes prohibit a profound practice. Shoes prevent feeling the connection between human and earth while sock lead to slipping and prevent the teacher from seeing requisite actions in your poses. But it is up to you how to proceed.

Great yoga teachers teach students not poses. And they have a myriad of tools to offer so that students like you can actually have your healing process supported by asana, pranayama, meditation, lifestyle/nutrition, and applied philosophy. THIS is a complete practice.

#4

Thanks for the responses. If I do buy the barefoot shoes I will only use them indoors until I get this under control.

I mostly mentioned the weight because it seems there is a trend of people to answer the question with you should just lose weight before you ____ (run, yoga, etc). Which is a catch 22 and untrue. The physical therapist I am seeing said she thinks my soft tissue in my foot is just stretchier than it should be. I have this problem with my knee too, it hyper extends naturally. Before I realized what this was and meant I tore 2 ligaments in a knee. I now recognize it when I am in yoga in all parts of my body, so I dont stretch so deep so as not to make them even loser. I have modified my yoga practice accordingly. I guess it just bothered me to hear that I should not be doing this. And really, I knew it was wrong, and maybe that is not what she meant when she said it. Its sad because I had a great community of people going to her classes I did things with, but I think I need to limit my exposure to that kind of teaching energy.

The problem is that my PF is so inconsistant and so are the classes, so I never know which class it will be bothered. I do have one teacher I do go to that is much less worried about rules and much more interested in you doing what your body needs. I have been going to more of his classes.

Sorry for a late reply, I lost a forum post from last week I tried to post.

#5

Again if you’ve identified “mushy” conective tissue this would be a call for alterations in your practice (which you’ve executed) and in your nutrition. It further calls to have your mind placed in muscle fiber for appropriate action (in active poses) so that said action(s) do not move further into the secondary system of tendons and ligaments.

Plantar fasciitis has a protocol for remedy (physiologically). My teacher, Aadil Palkhivala, did a video on the Plantar Fasciitis and you are more than welcome to check it out. There is also a significant energetic component but that is a deeper topic and really only between teacher and student once a trust is developed.

gordon

#6

Gordon,

When you say “It further calls to have your mind placed in muscle fiber for appropriate action…” do you mean somethng along the lines of keeping muscle active and not doing things like locking knees etc. I learned early to do that with my knees because they lock easily because my legs hyper extend some naturally (also too mushy ligaments I assume). I learned this because I tore my ACL in karate.

If this is what you mean, how do I do that with my feet? Just concentrate on balancing on the four corners of the foot and dispersing weight evenly or something else more specific?

I know you said you did not want to get into nutrition but do you have any sources of information for nutrition for joints/soft tissue?

Thanks for the follow up!

Laura

#7

I am not referencing an action or series of actions. I am referencing the way the mind is utilized during the doing of those actions. And this would almost exclusively apply to muscle tissue and it’s use.

What do you mean by “sources”?

You’re welcome, of course.

gordon

#8

Like a resource or source where I can learn more information. A website, book, person etc.

Thanks agian.

Laura

#9

I’m a person

Generally, this "ain’t book leranin’."
But there may be such a resource.

One can, of course, get it from a Purna Yoga teacher.
Where are you located?

#10

Hehe. Yes you are a person I was just looking for something to read or something accessible.

I am in Orlando Florida area.

#11

You mean Altamonte Springs or something right? No one lives in the city there.
We do not have anyone in Orlando. Farther south, yes. In Atlanta, yes. But not in Orlando. I’ve always wanted to come back and do a workshop there but its never quite happened. The folks in College Park simply weren’t interested.

#12

Probably not making it to ATL anytime soon. I might be in Michigan for a while this summer though.

I am house sitting around the area right now. I used to live in Altamonte Springs. For the moment I live mostly for free from house to house but I work downtown. When I am in Winter Park I go to Full Circle, in Altamonte ASY, in Longwood SNY and a few places in between if there are good deals or a good teacher.

There are a lot of studios in the area (which I am sure you are aware of), some places more open to workshops than others. Honestly I do not know what you are peddling (so to speak) so cannot recommend a certain place over another. Some of the bigger teacher training places (Altamonte Springs Yoga, Red Sun, Guruv, etc.) offer more workshops for their training weekends sometimes (also open to the public). But you might already know of the studios. Serenity Now Yoga in Longwood tries to do a lot of workshops, not always successfully. The studio owner is a podiatrist who currently teaches anatomy and physiology and kineseology at a local university.

And I USED to live in the City here (about 5 years ago), I could afford it for about a year :). Plus the benefit of being able to walk places was negated by the threat of the wandering rapists that seemed really bad that year.

I have never been to College Park Yoga. They have a good deal going for new students but I have heard mixed reviews on the place. I am not big on Ashtanga with all the sun sals for a warm up, it tears my shoulder up. I was not sure which type they are but from what I hear fairly strict.

#13

It was Full Circle that politely declined and they are in Winter Park not College Park. Sorry. Been over 8 years now:-) I no longer fight, persuade, or cajole to teach someone or someplace. Where there’s interest, I’ll go. Otherwise, not wasting precious energy.

#14

Full Circle seems to be one studio that is full most of the time. I have only been to asana classes never to anything else they offer. In fact I am not sure what else they offer. Though, Full Circle just lost the lady who helps them do their teacher training. She died. I never met her but I guess it was kind of shocking.