New Member - Yoga Questions

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

New user. I know you get these types of questions probably a million times a week cause I belong to a bundle of different kinds of forums and I know how it is. But I’m glad I found this, I apologize I write elaborate posts.

History of how/why I am hear ( through my experiences)
Anyway, for the past I’d say about 16 months I have been doing martial arts. I have been weight lifting for a few years now leisurely, at times very seriously. I had a yoga video for “martial artists” did that for a while, but now I just incorporated that into my warm ups before martial arts and lifting.
I have bought this ground fighting dvd , the art is actually called Madjaphit Silat. Actually, the ground fighting involves a fair amount of flexibility (especially to be mobile in these positions) and endurance muscles, all very conducive attributes to yoga IMO. thats what really spiked my interest for further yoga questioning. I have been using deep breathing from many situations. I’m not compelled to believe in any higher powers, although not completely opposed to it. Not sure how I feel about ki, chi, energy of any kind. I have not been exposed to it either way. So I’m pretty well rounded. I’m 20, 5"9 142lbs.

So that is me in a nutshell. I might go off track so let me get my primary question out and then I’ll work out from there.

1.) I am interested in meditating. I decided fully today to commit to it. I should read before asking for help, (I’ll do so then get back to any complications or questions) any pointers? The breathing I have down, I understand the connection of the breathing to the body and its mechanics and self and relaxation.

2.) This lotus position. I’m pretty flexible I think I can have it or have it soon, but I might just be being arrogant. Either way, my concern is on rushing it and holding it. I read somewhere on hear rushing it might be bad? When I gave it a rough try on this chair w/o a lot of effort, i felt the pressure in my ankles. I would imagine that’s because I need to get my legs up higher so they are no compressing on my ankles and better on my quads. The other part is I read it might not be good to do often. which doesn’t make sense if it’s a pose used for meditation.

3.) This one might be out of your reach. This concerns yogas ability to maybe diminish lifting performance. I do a lot of compound lifts, benching, dead lifts, clean and jerks, squats. This kid around my age who is a sports medicine practitioner (he knows a lot about the body) and his mom is a full fledged yoga instructor (he is not), he says it yoga might be counter productive to lifting.

Reason: lifting teaches your body to stay in fixed, tense positions.
Yoga on the other hand teaches your body to be loose, unconditional, flexible.
I do see the connection he is making, and I was not able to find any evidence online to support this.

Either way, I would not want to give up either. Both are very beneficial to me.

4.) lastly, yoga vs pilatis.(sp) some people say yoga is an easy form of pilatis (sp) i never done p…(screw it) but i have done yoga. nothing too advanced, all self taught through videos but i was tempted to buy an advanced yoga tape. any thoughts on this debate? I address this cause when/if I choose to buy another tape, i wouldn’t mind some input so i can choose a direction.

[B]for all who put time into this, thanks very much. I’m a time consuming SOB, but thank you for the time.[/B]

#2

I’ll take a run at answering this.

First a clarification or two.
Yoga is a vast body of wisdom comprised of tools for human growth or “evolution” one small tool o the many available is asana (poses or postures).

Second neither Yoga nor asana requires one to believe in a “higher power”. You can believe in air, fruit, the universe, or your big toe. It’s all good with yoga.

Now you’ve mentioned meditation, which is a rather peculiar mention considering your focus on the physical ( in this post as very least). So it would be helpful to know your motivations for meditation. Meditation is oft misunderstood, mismanaged, and misrepresented. There are many methods to “meditate” and therefore it would be quite difficult to have “the” breathing down. You may have “a” breathing down but that does not make nor does it break meditation.

Lotus position (or padmasana) is not a requirement for meditation. Additionally padmasana requires a tremendous amount of opening (external rotation and abduction) in order to prevent serious damage to the ligaments of the knee. You may have such opening but it is very, very common for students to force their way into the physical position without even being aware of the forcing. Just as you would not spar without a sensei one should think twice before padmasana without a teacher.

Asana is quite different than most weight lifting. Asana absolutely does NOT train the body to be loose, unconditional, and flexible. This is merely a concept put forth by popular media. Asana is about moving some things and stabilizing others. Flexibility in great measure is highly dangerous to connective tissue (ligaments and tendons).

In some weight lifting the muscles are contracting while shortening. This is a concentric contraction. In asana we are working to contract the muscle while lengthening it. This is an eccentric contraction. If your goals with your muscle tissue are to build mass, cut that mass, and shorten the muscle then yoga will not contribute to that. However ONLY doing that to muscle, over time, will have some consequences. So your asana practice will complement your weight lifting but you may not be at a point in your life to appreciate that balance. A few injuries, some immobility, and a few years, you’ll likely see things from a different angle:-)

Lastly yoga an easy form of Pilates. Ha! Pilates is a physical practice (almost exclusively as it is taught today), was conceived by Joe Pilates about 80 years ago and draws upon some of yoga poses and principles. Yoga is likely more than 8,000 old but we simply do not know how old beyond that.

#3

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;16979]I’ll take a run at answering this.

First a clarification or two.
Yoga is a vast body of wisdom comprised of tools for human growth or “evolution” one small tool o the many available is asana (poses or postures).

Second neither Yoga nor asana requires one to believe in a “higher power”. You can believe in air, fruit, the universe, or your big toe. It’s all good with yoga.

Now you’ve mentioned meditation, which is a rather peculiar mention considering your focus on the physical ( in this post as very least). So it would be helpful to know your motivations for meditation. Meditation is oft misunderstood, mismanaged, and misrepresented. There are many methods to “meditate” and therefore it would be quite difficult to have “the” breathing down. You may have “a” breathing down but that does not make nor does it break meditation.
[B]I am not sure what happens when a person meditates. I was never sure if you actually were disconnecting yourself from the world or doing this while contemplating deep on elaborate ideas. I like disconnecting from the world at times (sometimes I like to just walk around with my ipod and be isolate from the world, despite I’m a very social being) I also enjoy philosophy a lot and the main reason I like lifting and martial arts is:
Self defense, I enjoy the bodies mechanics and how it works, a nice endorphin, and relaxing. I am a very energetic person, so that’s another reason why meditation might ease my mind at times.[/B]

Lotus position (or padmasana) is not a requirement for meditation. Additionally padmasana requires a tremendous amount of opening (external rotation and abduction) in order to prevent serious damage to the ligaments of the knee. You may have such opening but it is very, very common for students to force their way into the physical position without even being aware of the forcing. Just as you would not spar without a sensei one should think twice before padmasana without a teacher.

[B]I can see this being a concern. My hips are pretty well open up through my martial art yoga tape, my madjaphit silat (although I do other arts too) madajaphit silat helps a lot because one of the normal poses you fight in (since its a ground based style) is you fold one leg inward as if you were sitting indian style, and instead of folding the other one in, you fold it out. I feel no pain when I get the lotus in, definitely no knee pain. But if you think I should avoid it until i see a real practitioner; i will do that.[/B]

Asana is quite different than most weight lifting. Asana absolutely does NOT train the body to be loose, unconditional, and flexible. This is merely a concept put forth by popular media. Asana is about moving some things and stabilizing others. Flexibility in great measure is highly dangerous to connective tissue (ligaments and tendons).
(I think this martial art yoga tape had poses like these which I can see what you mean)

In some weight lifting the muscles are contracting while shortening. This is a concentric contraction. In asana we are working to contract the muscle while lengthening it. This is an eccentric contraction. If your goals with your muscle tissue are to build mass, cut that mass, and shorten the muscle then yoga will not contribute to that. However ONLY doing that to muscle, over time, will have some consequences. So your asana practice will complement your weight lifting but you may not be at a point in your life to appreciate that balance. A few injuries, some immobility, and a few years, you’ll likely see things from a different angle:-)

[B]I’m an ectomorph. I am fine with that, and I will never get “big”. I don’t mind, Bruce Lee wasn’t big. I am aesthetically pleased with my body despite being small, and other than that, I only cared about size for self defense purposes. I have learned size should not be a big concern though.[/B]

Lastly yoga an easy form of Pilates. Ha! Pilates is a physical practice (almost exclusively as it is taught today), was conceived by Joe Pilates about 80 years ago and draws upon some of yoga poses and principles. Yoga is likely more than 8,000 old but we simply do not know how old beyond that.

[B]Great to hear haha. I’ll tell that to my friend, always trying to praise pilates.
Can your recommend any advance yoga tapes. I have this brand “yoga play” which did my martial art tape, they also have a advanced tape but if you have something better, i’ll do that.[/B]

[/QUOTE]

Overall, what can meditation achieve? What reasons do people do it?

thanks for being helpful.

#4

You are welcome (for being helpful).

Motivations for meditation are many and very diverse. Some even meditate so that they can tell others they meditate and garner respect and praise for their “spirituality”.

#5

Congratulations on being interested in meditation. Please pursue your interest and establish a meditation practice, for that is what it is.

Meditation is not about disconnecting from the world, nor is geared towards any achievements. Instead, meditation is about being fully present and about letting go of many things, including the objectives for meditation.

People meditate for many reasons, including relaxation or developing concentration. In classical yoga, people meditate to stop identifying with the vacillating waves of consciousness (thoughts, emotions, sensations, impulses ...). This may lead to the discovery that there is an ocean of tranquility below these waves. This is one's true nature, and it puts an end to suffering.

Meditation practice requires some technique - posture, breath, and especially an accepting and welcoming attitude towards whatever arises. Motivation is also needed to keep up the practice. There are many meditation methods, and the basics can be as simple as counting your breath. While there are many excellent books and internet resources, it is still very helpful to visit a meditation teacher and group, both for learning the basics and for motivation. You would also visit a teacher if you wanted to learn to play the violin.

Surely there will be some people practicing zazen, vipassana, or yogic meditiation in your vicinity. Find a genuine teacher and group that suits your purposes. Then practice for five or ten years and let us know what happened.

#6

Please find a qualified instructor if you want to learn martial arts and/or yoga. Learning from a video can work against you in the long run. Without someone to correct your errors early on, you could be reinforcing some very bad and dangerous habbits. Once you have the basics down and want to practice on your own, that’s ok but understand advancement is limited.

#7

Very sound advice. I think right now, I can’t afford yoga lessons. I mean, maybe I could, but I’m smart with my money.

I pay 70 a month for martial arts, plus school and car bills and I dish a little out for rent.

I think I’ll really take it up once I get a law enforcement job or a 15-20 an hour full time paying job.

real quick verification. I know it’s not true, but I want to hear it from you practitioners. Someone tried to tell me yoga usually winds up being bad for your body and bones cause people go past their limbs limitations and go against the way they were made to move.

Dispute. :stuck_out_tongue:

#8

“real quick verification. I know it’s not true, but I want to hear it from you practitioners. Someone tried to tell me yoga usually winds up being bad for your body and bones cause people go past their limbs limitations and go against the way they were made to move.”

Dispute. :P[/QUOTE]

  1. You know the “truth”

  2. Bad for your body? How could doing something so nurturing for your mind and body be bad for you?

  3. It’s always important to listen to your body and not exceed it’s limitations which can cause injury. Yoga is a non-competetive sport.

  4. No qualified yoga instructor, book, video or anyone who knows ANYTHING should ever suggest that you force your limbs to go against the way they were meant to move.

  5. On the contrary, it is recommended that we help our limbs to do exactly what they are meant to.

#9

Yes, sometimes people go beyond their own limits and move limbs into positions which they are not supposed to be in. I would not call this yoga though. Yoga is foremost about being mindful and avoiding harm (ahimsa). When encountering a limit, relax and breathe into this limit and do not force anything. Be patient, do not strive for results.

There are quite a few yoga positions which do go beyond normal range of motion (ROM). In the hands of inexperienced students and teachers, these poses have the possibility of damaging knees, lower backs, SI-joints, and necks. For example, some people feel that they must achieve lotus position, and they damage their knees because they don?t know that hip opening is a necessary prerequisite. Others strive for shoulderstand with weak shoulder muscles, forget a pad beneath their shoulders and damage their necks. And then there are extreme forward bends combined with a twist which may damage the SI-joint.

Fortunately, it is not necessary to practice extreme poses to have a rewarding hatha yoga practice. Many poses stay within normal ROM. A mindful and sensitive attitude, proper alignment, respect for your own bodymind, and a good teacher will prevent most injuries, both in the short and long term.

#10

[QUOTE=Glycerine0160;17096]…real quick verification. I know it’s not true, but I want to hear it from you practitioners. Someone tried to tell me yoga usually winds up being bad for your body and bones cause people go past their limbs limitations and go against the way they were made to move.[/QUOTE]

Is this the same someone who’s mother is a “real” yoga teacher?
Anything in life that we do carelessly has a heightened risk. Yoga only winds up being what the practitioner makes of it. So “yes” it is possible to abuse the tools no matter how “nurturing” the practice can be.

The practice doesn’t cause students to go past anything. That, my friend, is the ego.

There are certain biomechanical parameters that should be respected in an asaana practice (which again is NOT yoga but only a tiny sliver within Yoga). Asana can of course build bone density, it can also damage tendons. Use extreme care and find a sound teacher.

#11

[QUOTE=Glycerine0160;16976]
3.) This one might be out of your reach. This concerns yogas ability to maybe diminish lifting performance. I do a lot of compound lifts, benching, dead lifts, clean and jerks, squats. This kid around my age who is a sports medicine practitioner (he knows a lot about the body) and his mom is a full fledged yoga instructor (he is not), he says it yoga might be counter productive to lifting.

Reason: lifting teaches your body to stay in fixed, tense positions.
Yoga on the other hand teaches your body to be loose, unconditional, flexible.
I do see the connection he is making, and I was not able to find any evidence online to support this.

Either way, I would not want to give up either. Both are very beneficial to me. [/QUOTE]They are not counter productive. They are complementary. Relaxation and contraction are dualism, like yin and yang. Muscles must have both for optimum performance.

Mobility is the basis for stability. Having excessive tension is like having the brakes on when you depress the accelerator. You need to release the brakes to improve your performance.

And if you are in kettlebell lifting or Clubbell® swinging or weightlifting, you would appreciate the mobility from yoga. Obviously that guy doesn’t know much about lifting.

By the way, come to rmax forum for more in depth discussion on the application of yoga on performance. www [dot] rmaxinternational [dot] com/forum/index.php

[QUOTE=Glycerine0160;16976]
4.) lastly, yoga vs pilatis.(sp) some people say yoga is an easy form of pilatis (sp) i never done p…(screw it) but i have done yoga. nothing too advanced, all self taught through videos but i was tempted to buy an advanced yoga tape. any thoughts on this debate? I address this cause when/if I choose to buy another tape, i wouldn’t mind some input so i can choose a direction.[/QUOTE]Joseph Pilates did yoga, among other things. That is all i wanna say.

#12

[QUOTE=Glycerine0160;17096]

real quick verification. I know it’s not true, but I want to hear it from you practitioners. Someone tried to tell me yoga usually winds up being bad for your body and bones cause people go past their limbs limitations and go against the way they were made to move.
[/QUOTE]
Intuitive training principles in Circular Strength Training:
-Rate of perceived effort (RPE). This is what you vary depending on your goals.
-Rate of perceived technique (RPT). Must always be at least 8/10.
-Rate of perceived discomfort (RPD). Must always be 3/10 or below.

If RPT goes below 8 and/or RPD goes beyond 3, you can:
-Decrease the reps
-Decrease the range of motion
-Decrease the speed of movement
-Decrease the sophistication (complexity of movement)
-Or any combination of the above.

#13

[QUOTE=Glycerine0160;16984]Overall, what can meditation achieve? What reasons do people do it?

thanks for being helpful.[/QUOTE]

What meditation can do ? Everything.

Meditation is a way to approach God. In the meanwhile you become calm, relaxed and happy.