Nirvikalpa samadhi

in nirvikalpa samadhi.. one fully ecsperiences the forces of the play of the so called opposites (like in the yin yang symbol depiction. because one in not involved in pushing & pulling (adjustments of what we r feeling)
but rather allow completely just as is.... samskars fly off (discharge..unravrel)and also the mind energy (human part of consciousness) is less strongly tethered to the plus/minus reality ecsperiencing....... and then one can simultaneously ecsperience the undivided nature of source and much of our spirit.... as long as they continue to simultaneously feel wat they feel totally as is.. without 'adjusting'. :slight_smile: vippassana the art of living .by william hart is good. iamoneenergy.com

One of my favorite yoga sites.

1.17 The deep absorption of attention on an object is of four kinds, 1) gross (vitarka), 2) subtle (vichara), 3) bliss accompanied (ananda), and 4) with I-ness (asmita), and is called samprajnata samadhi.
(vitarka vichara ananda asmita rupa anugamat samprajnatah)

  • vitarka = gross thought or reasoning
  • vichara = subtle thought
  • ananda = bliss, ecstasy
  • asmita = I-ness, individuality
  • rupa = appearances, nature, form
  • anugamat = accompanied by, associated with
  • samprajnatah = cognitive absorption, lower samadhi

https://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-11718.htm

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So I am trying to get a better understanding of the distinctions between Vitarka, Vichara and Vikalpa.

vitarka

Root:tark

Devanāgarī:वितर्क

Translation:gross deliberation; negative deliberation

√tark

Devanāgarī:तर्क्

Translation:to reflect, think of, recollect, have in one's mind

Vitarka refers to the aspect of conceiving mentally, and is sometimes translated as “applied thought” or attention.

Its name comes from the Sanskrit root words vi, which is a prefix to verbs and nouns it expresses and tarka which means “reasoning” or “inquiry."

The term vitarka may refer to mental activities that occur in normal consciousness as well as the deliberate application of thought in the first stage of meditation.

Vitarka can be considered an intermediate step in meditation.

vicāra

Devanāgarī:विचार

Translation:subtle or special reflection

Sanskrit for 'thought' or 'deliberation,' Vichara is a yogic practice offered by Vedanta philosophy. It is a form of self-enquiry, in which continued awareness of "I" centered thinking unveils the unreality of such thoughts.

Vichara emphasizes the analysis of thought as a means of discerning between the real and the unreal, between Brahman (universal reality) and Atman (the self).

Vichara is a contemplative practice, helping to still the fluctuations of the mind in order to connect with pure consciousness.

vikalpa

Devanāgarī:विकल्प

Translation:false notion, fancy, imagination; mental occupation

Vikalpa = movements in the mind that are “fantasies or imaginations”

Vikalpa is imagination, fantasy or illusion. It can mean thinking of situations from the past and imagining different results, daydreaming, thinking of things that do not exist or imagining future situations and events. It is an idea that does not exist in reality.

Although controlled imagination and visualization may be beneficial for yoga practice and daily life, vikalpa is uncontrolled and random, the kind of disturbance of the mind that should be avoided. There is also a term for useful, controlled imagination - kalpana - and this is used for visualization and opening the mind and body, as well as for the removal of obstacles and perceived limitations.

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thank you, wonderful material, Rubedo. vitarka mental activity seems to follow the structures of The matrix, if this then that, but according to the errant programming running consciousness on the Earth. it is not elevated really and really does not lead anywhere. well it just doesn't include our deeper parts, and so there is no counterbalance... and we get thrashed to and through by the 'effects' lol :slight_smile: .
regarding vikalpa, our imaginations and fantasies, I would say there is some limitation here but also value but also-well vikalpa is very tricky. if one is opened inside enough, they can ride up in their imagination up into levels undescribable in earthly languages within themselves within their own being. (the reason that vikalpas draw people off is because their minds their realities are conditioned by the artificial matrix, so that ends up defining their experience.)continuuing- in these states awareness does not disappear ultimately. actually it's just that our awareness is not drawn by the mind through its conditioned realities which of course are based on basically the glass is partly full and partly empty, most of the time! lol (like obviously source is a undivided thing and it doesn't have part empty- it doesn't have is empty vs full . and by the way and this is a little bit off of the story, but still related, remember that all mind States, all mind-spirit states are all going on simultaneously already! :slight_smile: what happens is that our less subtle mind States kind of make it impossible to feel or receive or perceive the more subtle mind States. it's like watching scribbles in the air or on a screen (but within us-as us). it's just hard to feel what's behind it or just within it! the great Masters are not against anything, they they were just working with how not to obscure the more deep which is the more subtle.
and so in goenka's vipassanna, they consider our inner reactions to our thoughts and feelings to be even more of a conflagration then the samskar born-influenced thoughts and feelings themselves. (of course this realization threads its way through many spiritual and healing modalities.) and so goenka said just feel it. just feel the sensations. and like nowadays I feel the particles. it's like fields of particles within you and then it goes to more and more subtle. so one experiencecs one's spirit within them. it's like if yah add us up our physical and our spirit we each are one being. but obviously we're just stretched out from source out to here.. lol maybe :).
and so the reason the guides asked me to share that was because it explains the more gross to the more subtle activity that is generated in the mind and the more gross, meaning less subtle, covers up the experience of the less gross meaning more subtle. that's why they mention that they are just saying there is a approach to not producing those varying degrees of subtlety, and as far as vicara... the masters say that all of these are just ways of describing the graduation of gross to subtle in the emanations OR nature of the different succeedingly different aspects of what we are. they mention that in a higher age, we would automatically feel more of it or all of it. we all understand that. they say in Satya yuga we all know that no yoga was needed lol :slight_smile: anyways vicara... yeah that's like when the more gross has quieted down and it's some more subtle kind of blissful kind of less immersed in the feelings of inner separation of the physical. it's actually blissful I would say and it is a more clear place to investigate truth. (and I would say that proceeds-evolves a more & more pure reception as programmed illusions and attachment to them are released from by the individual )it is a place where more truth is felt and experienced and so then what happens is that untruth or that which is less complete or is in a illusory way characterized by feelings of less cohesiveness, is experienced to have less effect, less hold, less grip, or no effect and so then it is exposed. it is not evil it is just everything has its nature. okay thank you for sharing that stuff with me Rubedo. wow- did I learn a lot! :pray:t3:

ola Rubedo. the masters share that ur vicara is strong. in Bliss. I assume that you are experiencing that in meditation. the only thing they say is when you feel the more Jud things of the limited aspects of physical reality, they say just accept how that feels. they say doing that will help those particles of your mind and energy (that feel that) relax more and more and that this will help you in the way that you feel in your practice and will allow you to proceed ongoing more deeply. they say it doesn't matter where the more Jud energies or feelings are coming from- inside or outside. they say the first step is to allow your particles to feel those unpleasant things. just allow it. half of the war will be over and the other half will work itself out spontaneously. this is what they say. and by the way they say later on you can worry about what is from outside or inside if you want as that is part of discernment, but they say that it doesn't matter now because you are not able to even command your own grossly vibrating particles and so you cannot use them to arrest incoming energies in the most proper effective ways. and so they say that will come in the future but that that will come automatically and will blossom naturally from your own inner progress.

That is a lot to process, iaoenergyactivation. I appreciate all you have posted.

I think I understand most of it. At one point you say, "...the only thing they say is when you feel the more Jud things of the limited aspects of..." I think I know what you mean by Jud things. Lower, more physical vibes, events, feelings,, thoughts?

Who are the masters you speak of?

I do think of it all as a continuum from gross to subtle to ultra subtle. I am also remined of Aurobindo. he talks about the power of ignorance, which is really our ability to focus. So we can focus or concentrate on a specific though and be temporarily ignorant or unaware of other distractions.

Peace

That is quite true and one of my main frustrations. I strive for equanimity, what Aurobindo calls "Equity" and the stoics call "ataraxia". Life long process I guess.

:)) hello Rubedo. yes to everything you said. it seems right on to me. and so what the Masters were speaking about, who I usually call the guides, well I think they were addressing exactly what you are saying that you are working with. .By Jud I think they were referring to very slowly vibrating energies in the physical ones that even barely seem to vibrate, feeling so moods or anything that feels dead inside or outside if we're perceiving it. and that would be included in the more gross vibrational part of the range. and of course in as you have taught me equity, we are capable of experiencing the full range of gross to subtle or realistically a large range, all at the same time. Rubedo, it's sort of a bit like inoculations. our energies are exposed more to these more dead feelings or energies and we accept that, and this allows our energies to adjust to feeling these slower speeds of vibration. it may not be pleasant it may not be wonderful but eventually when our energies are just we can feel the sort of source aspect within any speed of vibration. and so also in equity which equity and awareness are a sibling pair kind of can't have one without the other, by definition it includes experientially perceiving in some way the full range or a large range of gross to subtle, in a unbroken way and all at the same time. and so it sounds like you are certainly doing the right things and when the Masters took a look I think that was the only thing they found that would be helpful to address about the very slowly vibrating energies because most people don't go hey it's great I'm feeling slow vibrating kind of dead energy. but it is an important part of practice and an important part of the path that you share that you are filling in inside. and so all blessings unto you. the master said may you always be blessed. I changed it to may you always continue to be blessed. but you asked who they are. well one of them is Francis from the 1200s, and I really wasn't really shown who the others were I don't remember, but right now they are kind of emphasizing the presence of sunanda and one more but I don't recognize me yes kind of long white hair I can't really tell. and one more.

Rubedo -CORRECTIONS ON REPLY I JUS POSTED ! *Sananda so onli Francis, and they showed me Sananda, and one with long white hair, maybe hilarion. btw.... I know for a fact that Francis is a absolute absolute expert in the matter of equity, non-duality. non-duality meaning we can experience the full range.
okay- take good care :slight_smile:

Francis of Assisi? I used to be a Franciscan Friar and am currently reading about him again, especially his love of poverty which I take as surrender.

yes dude! yes him! :)) Franciscan friar - wow!!

really fitting together now.yah, Francis has been my main inner teacher. although I had read a lot before, he has been the one who has brought everything to life within, including deepening feeling, deepening understanding, deepening sense of scope of things, deepening sense of the depth within people, and deepening respect for the image of God in their deep spirit. and very deep training to allow my own energies and aspects to learn to be able to nullify the effects, however without tightness or resistance, of all that which is not based in the reality of God within which seems to be very undivided. anyways, isn't this amazing. a Franciscan friar, wow... now that's really cool :))

That was 30 years. But still his spirit is with me. As I said, poverty was a big deal for him. Not just financial poverty but total reliance on God rather than material assets. That seemed to reinforce the emotional connection for him (Bahkti).

***(Totallllly ! :slight_smile: ***
and to me he seems very eclectic, because he has taught me (ecsperientially within) stuff from Buddha from the other Indian and Asian sages, and he has really shown me that at core, in true realization, it is all the same thing all describing the same thing s. at least that's my experience. sort of what is the essence. what is the essence. and he's so in touch with how parabrahman pervades every particle that make up the things of the physical creation. basically that parabrahman is at the core of every particle... in it's fullness but within the Maya most of the sheathesaround that are sort of diminished. but of course it's still there it's just not totally manifest. and so the beauty of the inner immersion in Christ, and source and with beautiful guides such as Francis who are really in touch and who have almost a passion for the freedom of the soul :).
and he is as much friends and works together, in my experience, with the avatars of India, in so many ways it is all the same thing and they are so all coordinated... but they are such free beings, it's pretty cool. and they don't condemn aspects of life. that's not really their approach , as I have observed anyways, as much as sharing that there is something, some aspect within us that is truly not even subject to warmer and colder and clearer and less clear and so on. yet all of them seem to teach that this can never be achieved (realized) by escaping the internal experiences of all these things, but rather more aligned with what Gautama kind of taught which is don't run and don't hide, and that's more how we get within! (we kind of sink down through the muck and end up in the kingdom, spiritual heroism in a sense,)lol selah! ram_mmmmm. brahmaguru (kina like OM :slight_smile: it's a beautiful thing. has a lot of joy :slight_smile:

by the way a little later on now, Rubedo, and I was a little cautious to mention this because it's a little out there and it's not really my area, but Francis seems to be imparting to me a number of times on this theme that the two of you, or the two of your spirits were incarnated at the same time period in the 'druid' culture, and that the two of you know each other. that's all he's really saying or imparting. but I also get the sense that he may already be or more will be coming into your dreams in the kind of genre of that druid lifetime because there is a connection there so I think he is just using that as a familiar way. so that's really cool :slight_smile:

Thanks for sharing that. He is such a beautiful soul. If we knew each other I was probably on of his many distant admirers.

You speaking of knowing ParaBrahman in all things reminded my of his great poem:

Most High, all-powerful, all-good Lord, All praise is Yours, all glory, all honor and all blessings.

To you alone, Most High, do they belong, and no mortal lips are worthy to pronounce Your Name.

Praised be You my Lord with all Your creatures,
especially Sir Brother Sun,
Who is the day through whom You give us light.
And he is beautiful and radiant with great splendor,
Of You Most High, he bears the likeness.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars,
In the heavens you have made them bright, precious and fair.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Brothers Wind and Air,
And fair and stormy, all weather’s moods,
by which You cherish all that You have made.

Praised be You my Lord through Sister Water,
So useful, humble, precious and pure.

Praised be You my Lord through Brother Fire,
through whom You light the night and he is beautiful and playful and robust and strong.

Praised be You my Lord through our Sister,
Mother Earth
who sustains and governs us,
producing varied fruits with colored flowers and herbs.
Praise be You my Lord through those who grant pardon for love of You and bear sickness and trial.

Blessed are those who endure in peace, By You Most High, they will be crowned.

Praised be You, my Lord through Sister Death,
from whom no-one living can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin! Blessed are they She finds doing Your Will.

No second death can do them harm. Praise and bless my Lord and give Him thanks,
And serve Him with great humility.

:slight_smile: makes my mind just kind of stop thinking.