Perfect

Spirituality
#1

[QUOTE=Hubert;15533]I must confess, I feel a bit quilty as I often rejected your or somone else’s statements about God, light, love aso, especially if they were made in first person. In that, I was wrong, even if well intentioned.

Sivananda says: think man and man you will become, think God and God you will become.

I have no right to question or doubt anyones good thoughts, as doing this I am acting secpetical, as a non-believer.

What you say, it is true. The mind can have the power to make anything happen. In fact, at a higher stage, as I learnt, the ability to accept anything to happen, be it cows raining down from the sky, is a must. So, yes, quantum leaps can happen, and Peter Pan might pay me a visit. To expect the unexpected, is a very good attitude in our spiritual pursuit.

Personally, I am not concerned by samadhi. For me it is just an uncomprehended aspect of yoga philospophy. By this I mean, I understand the way of how yoga is performed, and what samadhi si described to be, but I cannot really resonate with that, yet. It is data, but not resonating with my heart, yet. So I am not pushing it. I could’nt possibly, it is out of my reach. You may say, these thoughts stop me gaining anything in this direction, yet … I am unable to just let everything go, and make that jump of faith.
While basic aspects of yoga I learned, experienced, and gained results with, and gained some insight into the more advanced ones too, there is so many things for me yet to learn and perform, and do, that samadhi is the last thing on my mind. I did not even start regular pranayama yet. I chose to create a solid intellectual foundation first. I also struggle a lot with personal karma, job, family, friends … so many aspects to improve in them … but there are results. No moral energy is ever lost in the Universe, a great soul said once, so I am confident, and also hope that what I am able to perform will be just enough. I’d say, I am advancing slowly with yama and niyama practice every year.[/QUOTE]

Hubert, no need to feel guilty man, however I do appreciate your words. Me and you have rejected each others words at times, that is ok. I think part of the reason is because we seem to be very alike in some ways. If we say we are unable to let everything go, then we will be unable to let everything go. That belief will strengthen. have you let everything go for only one moment in your life? Yes you have, so if you can do it for a moment then you can expand from there. Maybe we are closer then we realize.

On my path
I tried to be perfect, I tried to be perfect in word, thought, actions, what I ate, the environmently safe products, etc… In trying to be perfect I denied myself of having fun, playing sports, enjoying things like food, sex, surfing, even tried to stop myself from getting upset or sad. I tried to eat perfect, I used to weight 165 and was pretty strong for my size in trying to eat perfect I lost weight and weighed in at 138 with very little strength or stamina all this in the name of “the Search” What has that left me with? I am single with no family, I have not created a child, I have no one that depends on me the way a child or wife does. A part of me is concerned only with my self

So what has that left me with?
I now can appreciate how no one is perfect, nor could they be if they tried, this i know from first hand experience. I now appreciate that even though I may not like that someone yells, that does not make them wrong. I appreciate others journey, their search and I have empathy for those who wish to find “God”

So where am I?
I am now going back out into the world. Trying to be perfect is over. While I have not had the “God realization” intellectually I understand that I cannot be separate from my creator and “God” is inside of me, always was, always will be. God is my core, that was never lost, I had only built up barriers between myself and the core. I am enjoying my golf, I am enjoying some wine, I even enjoy telling God to kiss my butt, all in good humor. Now it is Time for me to have a wife, Now it is time for me to have a child I also believe it is not the actions we do that matter, but the outlook on it that means everything in the world.

So brother hubert, . I am done breaking myself apart, now it is time to put myself back togethor, as the Neil I am meant to be. The imperfect, smartass, who does not take life too seriously, who enjoys helping others, being lazy sometimes the guy who laughs at things that makes no sense, who sings in his car, the philosopher, the guy who cares about others feelings, who likes to talk, etc…

just some thoughts brother
Enjoy your wife, enjoy your food, enjoy everthing,
The most amazing thing you have ever done, is create your child. I believe if a parent can fully realize that, then there will be nothing left to realize. For me the most amazing thing I have ever done is create a safe place for my school children, where they are accepted and nutured. Realizing that what more is there for me to realize?

we are one, in the same
brother Neil

#2

Howdy Neil :slight_smile:

Boy does THIS sound familiar, hahah. As I dove deeper into yoga, I created a false identity of who I thought I should be; what I thought a realized yogi should be like, since that’s what I desired to be. Like you, I even tried to convince myself that I no longer felt anger or sadness. I was, “centered”.

Some people get quite upset with me when I say, “There is a lot of BS in yoga circles.” I don’t say that to be mean, I don’t even feel that I’m judging, it’s simply an observation. One that comes from personal experience since I was king of BS (and may still be for all I know). We get this idea in our heads about how we SHOULD be and ACT accordingly instead of connecting to how we really are and just being. I think part of the problem is that there was a VERY important step in the teacher student relationship that is often missing today. From what I understand, the student would walk the “fine line of control” until it just about drove them crazy at which point the trusted guru would say something along the lines of (and with more wisdom), “You can’t control” and out would come the great Buddha laugh.

I’ve come to realize that this false, “yoga identity” I created was layered upon many layers of false identity going back to around the age of three. At present, I don’t really know who or what I am, but I’m sure as hell having a lot of fun! :slight_smile:

The only different perspective I have is that I view myself and others as being perfect. If something about you changes, you’ll still be perfect.

Much love to you Neil, my perfect friend. hugs

#3

The most perfect people are those who realize they are and always will be imperfect and accept that.

Isn’t this what mindfulness is all about? Accepting ourselves for who we are right this minute?

Namaste my friend.

#4

Alix’s comment above made me think of this:

If that is a true statement, then I might be one of THE most perfect people. I gave up on the idea of achieving any sort of perfection back when I was a kid. Somehow I remember sitting in the back of our family car and deciding, “I’ll never be perfect enough, so why try?” And I usually never did try. Since becoming perfect, or even more perfect, was never a “goal,” the living was easy (as the song goes). I totally accepted and embraced all my imperfections to the point that I allowed myself to get away with behavoirs and attitudes and feelings and thoughts that ultimately did me no good, but more importantly, did nothing good for those, or to those, around me.

So again (and as usual), I’m confused.

If we accept ourselves as we are, imperfections and all, where does the motivation come from or what sparks the desire to get ourselves beyond this point? If we know our imperfections are not beneficial to ourselves or our loved ones and may in fact, be causing harm in some way, then don’t we need to change? What is it that we’re accepting exactly, when we accept “ourselves?”

Disclaimer: My ego is not really THAT big that it would allow me to think I’m the most perfect person. That was an attempt at humor. But…my ego IS big enough to wonder about the word “vimshati” under my name. I can sense that it’s already feeling all puffed up and important even though it has no idea of what the word even means. Can anybody explain?

#5

[QUOTE=moth;15549]Alix’s comment above made me think of this:

If that is a true statement, then I might be one of THE most perfect people. I gave up on the idea of achieving any sort of perfection back when I was a kid. Somehow I remember sitting in the back of our family car and deciding, “I’ll never be perfect enough, so why try?” And I usually never did try. Since becoming perfect, or even more perfect, was never a “goal,” the living was easy (as the song goes). I totally accepted and embraced all my imperfections to the point that I allowed myself to get away with behavoirs and attitudes and feelings and thoughts that ultimately did me no good, but more importantly, did nothing good for those, or to those, around me.

So again (and as usual), I’m confused.

If we accept ourselves as we are, imperfections and all, where does the motivation come from or what sparks the desire to get ourselves beyond this point? If we know our imperfections are not beneficial to ourselves or our loved ones and may in fact, be causing harm in some way, then don’t we need to change? What is it that we’re accepting exactly, when we accept “ourselves?”

Disclaimer: My ego is not really THAT big that it would allow me to think I’m the most perfect person. That was an attempt at humor. But…my ego IS big enough to wonder about the word “vimshati” under my name. I can sense that it’s already feeling all puffed up and important even though it has no idea of what the word even means. Can anybody explain?[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge, a yogi (or Awakened One in Buddhism) does not dwell for long on the causes and nature of his imperfections. He just CORRECTS them and never looks back !

That seems to be different from Eastern Orthodox monks doctrine: " lock yourself in your lonely cell and weep for your past sins."

Now comes a natural idea: what is SIN ?

My understanding from Yoga and Lord Buddha is that you have not sinned if you have not known it has been a sin !

Actually Saint Paul writes the same in his letters. He himself commited crimes against Christians, because he did not know they were crimes. When Jesus Christ showed him that we was wrong, he repented and acted as an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

So the point here, in my opinion, is not to be weeping too long for your sins
(were they sins if you did not know they were sins ?) but to repent and correct your sins.

"There is no saint without a past and no sinner without a future."
Babaji

#6

Moth. in Alchoholics anynomous there is a first step, acceptance. From this acceptance one can move forward. If we fail to realize, or accept that we are not perfect, how can we move forward. I am not perfect at golf, by accepting that I can accept where I am, and by accepting where I am there is less tension, by there being less tension, moving forward becomes easier. imo, acceptance equals relaxation. so we relax into who we are instead of denying it, from there moving forward is easier.
just my thoughts, or maybe yours too :wink:
with my love
brother Neil

#7

David and Alex, thanks for your words, it is nice to know I am not alone, never was only “thought” I was
thanks brothers :slight_smile:
Neil

#8

Hi Moth, nice to read from you again:-) I love the explanation that Nichole wrote in this thread - see post number 9:
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f20/yoga-sutras-ii-30-31-yama-self-control-for-social-harmony-3086.html

Don’t we practice Yoga to learn how to discriminate all layers of ourselves? And to be able to recognize own obstacles such as repression of emotions, or on the other hand being completely manipulated by our own emotions…

#9

[quote=justwannabe;15554]David and Alex, thanks for your words, it is nice to know I am not alone, never was only “thought” I was
thanks brothers :slight_smile:
Neil[/quote]
Sister Neil. I’m a girl. LOL.

And thanks for illustrating what I meant.

Moth, when you accept who you are imperfections and all as being OK it makes change easier. When you choose to say “WTF I’m not going to be perfect ever so why try” that is giving yourself license to behave badly. Its not true acceptance. Its really sort of…well…lazy. Accepting that you can’t be perfect and yet still striving for perfection is such a catch 22 isn’t it?

#10

[QUOTE=Alix;15579]Sister Neil. I’m a girl. LOL.

And thanks for illustrating what I meant.
[/QUOTE]

well then I guess we can be cross dressers for a post or two. we are beyond duality, right? :slight_smile:
with love sister
Brother Neil

#11

[quote=justwannabe;15580]well then I guess we can be cross dressers for a post or two. we are beyond duality, right? :slight_smile:
with love sister
Brother Neil[/quote]

Yep. I’m there with you my brother. Wanna borrow my pumps? :wink:

#12

[quote=Alix;15625]
Yep. I’m there with you my brother. Wanna borrow my pumps? ;)[/quote]
If they’re red, I do. Red brings out that sparkle in my eyes.

#13

Red ones for David, gotcha!

#14

oooh!
I love red shoes.
I just got some new red shoes!
well "old", but new to me.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/2516764433_670e654674.jpg

I shall think of David as I garden.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2333/2500215530_ac547e1d46_m.jpg

#15

Hi Found a great 2 part article on someone’s experience developing their own motivation. I have cut and pasted it below.
[B]
Part 1: Where do I get some of that?[/B]

Motivation and discipline are characteristics that I felt I didn’t have and struggled with for quite a while. I spent four years going to drop in or structured classes and learned some, but felt I couldn’t bring it home. I had trouble just getting on my mat and practicing.

At first it did take a little discipline. Ok, a lot! I would come home from work, put on my 3 second breath cycle cd, and set up my practice area. I still found ways to avoid the practice for a while spending time cleaning up my apartment or calling friends. But after a while I would know I had to get some type of a practice in. I followed the structure my teacher had given me with the Smart Yoga approach. Sometimes I would use a pranayama exercise to calm my mind and breath. When I first started practicing on my own it wouldn’t be for very long. Sometimes only half an hour. And I always experienced great benefits from any little bit of yoga I did.

Yoga builds. My practice built slowly. But now there are times when I loose hours to practicing yoga within that happy realm of motion. It might not be everyday, but it is constantly evolving.

When you get home, clear a space, roll out your mat and enjoy your body!
[B]
Motivation & Discipline – Part II: Find your happy place![/B]

Maybe it sounds too flaky hippy to tell you to find your happy place, but I don’t know how else to describe it. It is within all of us just waiting to be discovered!

After I started practicing on my own I found that I didn’t need to search for motivation or discipline. Yoga made me feel so happy and incredible that suddenly I had the power and motivation inside me! It was just hard to find.

Here is how I found it… At some point in my practice, usually early on during the lunges or standing poses a feeling of peace and calm would wash over me. I would feel incredible in my body. Once it comes over me I let it consume my mind and body and allow it to build inside me. It is such an amazing experience, and hands down the best part of yoga. It will make all of your problems of the day wash away and seem minuscule.

It is this blissful feeling that translated into motivation and discipline for me. No longer did those words have a negative connotation. That feeling is what draws me to my practice.

I discovered this happy place through yoga, and now it has translated into my daily life! I hope that I can help you realize this amazing effect of yoga. You have this ability within your body and just have to tap into it. Then yoga is easy, your body will crave it, and it will make you feel so good that you cannot even imagine a life before it.

#16

This thread has been in my mind because I think there are lessons in here for me. It’s funny how yoga keeps presenting such puzzles and challenges (speaking of discipline), but since the rewards and benefits are so satisfying, I’ll keep at it (speaking of motivation). So, thank you, Neil. And thank you to those who offered helpful words to my confusion. I don’t want to hijack this thread and I hope the conversation hasn’t ended, but I just wanted to share this experience…

For the past 3 months, I had been dealing with intense time pressures at work and some out-of-the-ordinary and disturbing family “drama.” So life happens like this sometimes, but the fact that these events happened about the same time and were smack in the middle of the holidays didn’t help. The seemingly endless responsibilities-tasks-duties-obligations meant that I forgot about taking care of me. I turned myself on “autopilot” to get through each day. I was absolutely and totally NOT mindful in almost any way you can think of that word. I think I forgot to eat some meals but when I did, I ate standing up or ate just whatever was in arm’s reach. I couldn’t sleep from worry. I think I even forgot to drink water?! I missed yoga class for three weeks in a row and home practice and meditation fell to the side. I noticed a slight pain in my knee which I ignored because I had too much to do - shopping, wrapping, stair climbing, driving, getting fast from point A to point B. I have no idea what caused it, because I wasn’t paying attention. As the pain increased, I took pills to numb it so that I could keep myself up on my feet and moving. Soon, but not soon enough, the holidays were over, work calmed down, and the family drama settled. Basically, the stress started subsiding, along with some of the knee pain. But then, my inability to walk or simply stand, increased. An ortho visit, x-rays and MRI’s revealed “bone marrow edema” (actually in my lower thigh bone) and the advice was to keep it iced, stay off my feet, and come back in 4-6 weeks. I wondered how I was supposed to stay off my feet for that long…when I STILL HAVE THINGS TO DO?! That mind-set was Friday.

On Saturday, I went to my yoga class and I felt like I could finally breathe. Almost literally. I left there, as I always do, feeling relaxed and happy. My heart was full. I hugged my teacher because I appreciated that she (and my small class) helped modify some of the poses for me so that I could participate. When I came home, I felt love for my (sometimes annoying) family, got back to eating healthy, dranks LOTS of water, and I started a new painting. It was a really good and happy day, pain and all. Happiness on the outside along with happiness on the inside.

Now I’m still sorting through the debris of this little “stress storm.” I know I made some bad choices here. I acted imperfectly but I don’t see the point of judging myself too harshly. For me, trying to strive for any kind of perfection places a burden that I just don’t need, or want to, carry. My life (or maybe my way of thinking) usually feels “burdensome” anyway, so I’m not looking to increase the weight of that load. Instead, I should remember to stop, relax, and pay closer attention. Remain mindful. Although my mind did seem to take off on vacation, my body certainly gave me a warning that I couldn’t/can’t ignore. The mind kept saying go faster and my body said slow down. I guess they really DO work together!?

Anyway, thanks for reading. This might be a little belated, but since I only “woke up” this weekend, I would like to wish you all a PERFECTLY HAPPY new year.

:slight_smile:

#17

Oh boy do I relate to your story moth. I’m sitting here with my leg elevated to keep my knee joint straight. (I tore my meniscus back in October) So I just want to say that I think we all do as you described in your post. I know I get all turned around and wound right up sometimes and its only when I STOP…breathe and look around that I find my center once again.

I’m currently being mindful that my knee needs to heal in its own time and I’m only doing the things that I can without stressing it. My teacher too has modified classes for me and it was such a relief that everyone was willing to change and be flexible because of my needs. (or knee-ds ;))

Thanks for sharing that story. Its a good one

#18

Moth,
thanks for sharing brother,
glad to hear some things have slowed down for you. that is great

#19

[I]Is there a difference between italic g and q? There is. [/I]Hubert did not say that he felt guilty. He said that he felt quilty. I am not familiar with that word. Or maybe I am having vision problems.

#20

aaa