Pigeon pose and back pain

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello,

I started yoga 2 years ago and in the last 3 months I ve been taking it more seriously.
Doing my practice at home, I have no teacher to check my alignment, but I am extremely careful on checking it myself. (Fear of harming myself helps a lot :slight_smile: )

How do you square your hips in pigeon pose? What does it exactly mean?
I fear I m doing something wrong, as I get back pain from it.
When you have your right leg in front of you, and left one behind, I usually check if the hips are parallel to the floor, and if they are parallel to the front of the mat as well. Is that enough?
Why some teachers encourage using props? DOes the block has to be under the right buttock? And why? I thought that the goal was having the left leg pull behind, and the right leg to sink as much as possible.

I d love to get some tips from more experienced yogini, and also to know if there is anyone else who instead of having sciatica pain relieved, he gets it worst, and also feel some tinglig in the front leg.

Namaste

#2

Hello Suryanamaskara,

Pain is an indicator that there is something wrong and to stop doing whatever it is you are doing. I use the term “sweet discomfort” with my students. There should never be any pain.

Do you have sciatica? If so, is it from herniated disc or piriformis syndrome? Weak glutes (maximus and medius) can contribute to piriformis syndrome as the piriformis will pick up the slack. Strengthening these muscles is important. Jamming the back (compression) will cause back pain as will a tight psoas. Without seeing you in person, these are only meant to give you some basic info.

How do you square your hips in pigeon? So few students can actually have hips square and lie completely flat in pigeon. That should not be the goal. The goal is to feel the pose/stretch. If it doesn’t feel right or it increases pain already established, you need to either: a) stop the pose altogether b) use a prop or some modification c) find a good teacher to help you with alignment.

Why do teachers use props? To help with alignment and allowing the student to be in the pose correctly. If a student is unable to get into a pose correctly due to say, skeletal discrepancies, a prop (block, strap, etc) will allow that student to experience the pose correctly. And why the block under the bent knee buttock? To assist in squaring the hips. I’ve also used a blanket or pillow for students whose straight leg is elevated in the area of upper thigh and hip. This gives them support and allows them to be in the pose with correct alignment.

Try this and see if it helps. Instead of coming down in pigeon, stay upright. Either place your fingertips on the mat or onto your bent knee leg. Make sure the straight leg is slightly internally rotated. This is a common problem with most students. They allow their straight leg to externally rotate and this can compress the back. Bring your awareness to creating space with which to move and/or rest. But stay in this upright position for at least 1 minute or more, IF THERE IS NO PAIN. For some of my students this has been a turning point in pigeon and they find now that coming down to the floor is much more enjoyable and a far better stretch. Just an option.

Best of luck!

#3

Hi Lotusgirl,

Thank you so much for your reply.
I have scoliosis ( 2 vertebras of the toracic spine have asymmetrical shape, which causes a sort of S shape, and also a twist) I started having sciatica pain in the leg, (autodiagnosed, as I don t like doctors) and do not know what’s the reason.
I do not feel any disconfort though if I don t push myself in asanas and if I concentrate during practice.

About pigeon pose and props, I am one of those who stays with the back thigh elevated, therefore I ll try with a blanket as you suggested. And also I ll keep in mind to internally rotate that back thigh. (thanks for having pointed it will compress the back, I ll defenetely remember to do that!)

Have a good day.

#4

You’re welcome!

With a dx of scoliosis and now having leg pain (sciatica) I would see a medical professional for evaluation. When was the last time you had an MRI of the spine? Perhaps look for a Dr. of Osteopathy. They treat the whole person, not just the illness. They also receive extra training in musculoskeletal system.

With scoliosis, working with a trained and skilled yoga teacher would be greatly beneficial. Working with students who have scoliosis is often times tricky and their practice needs to be specifically tailored.

And you have a good day as well!

#5

Consider playing with reclined pigeon, as some teachers call it.
It's a similar action, but your are lying on your back.

Or,Instead of relying on the weight of the body to hold the outer hip on the front leg to the floor, you are cradling your knee in one elbow and your foot in the other elbow and have fingers interlaced.

#6

@Suryanamaskara
Is this the pose you are referencing?

#7

Hi Gordon,

yes, this is the pose I’m refering to.

@JSK: thanks for the variation suggested :slight_smile:

#8

@suryanamaskara,

So you are not bringing your torso down to the mat? Just staying upright as pictured above? If you do come down, does it relieve the sciatica and back pain? If you are staying upright I suspect you are compressing lower spine. And if you tilt your head back, it will further compress the spine, so if that is the case, look straight ahead.

#9

[QUOTE=suryanamaskara;74353]…I have no teacher to check my alignment, but I am extremely careful on checking it myself. (Fear of harming myself helps a lot :slight_smile: )[/QUOTE]
Best to have other eyes look at your poses, meaning a teacher. But it seems you know this. Also best not to have fear present during the practice of asana. Caution and presence and mindfulness, yes,

[QUOTE=suryanamaskara;74353]How do you square your hips in pigeon pose? What does it exactly mean?
I fear I m doing something wrong, as I get back pain from it.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t use such language but I’ve heard it used in the past. Squaring uses four reference points, the two you control are the bone protuberances on the upper front of the pelvis; the ASIS or anterior superior iliac spine. When the instruction is "square that means those reference points are the same distance form the front of the mat or the wall or whatever the other two reference points are. Parallel is also a good synonym for square, I suppose.

[QUOTE=suryanamaskara;74353]When you have your right leg in front of you, and left one behind, I usually check if the hips are parallel to the floor, and if they are parallel to the front of the mat as well. Is that enough?
Why some teachers encourage using props? Does the block has to be under the right buttock? And why? I thought that the goal was having the left leg pull behind, and the right leg to sink as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
Poses have a dualistic nature. The aspiration or “up” in the pose has to come from a preceding rooting, grounding, or “down”. When the spine is lifted without this sort of action the nerves and therefore the nervous system becomes agitated and the pose becomes hard and effect is diminished while risk is increased.

Specifically this pose requires certain warming and hip opening. When that is not available then there is absolutely a greater risk for lumbar spine and sacroiliac dysfunction. If the right sitting bone is not grounded then the student is “hanging out” on ligaments in the hip joint and there is nothing good about this other than the profound learning delivered by damage and injury. And frankly there seems to be a ton of asana practitioners who have chosen to or need to learn in just this fashion. But it is not my cup of tea.

#10

@lotusgirl

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;74397]@suryanamaskara,

So you are not bringing your torso down to the mat?
Just staying upright as pictured above? [/QUOTE]

I bring the torso to the mat and rest on my elbows and forehead and then after few breaths I move in upright position.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;74397]If you do come down, does it relieve the sciatica and back pain? [/QUOTE]

Yes, I have the feeling that it s better for lower back , but then it can happen that I feel some twinkling in the bent leg, maybe because I am sitting on my nerve, or because it is irritated.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;74397]If you are staying upright I suspect you are compressing lower spine. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I think this is the problem.Just wondering if there is a way to adjust the alignment, or if this has to do with my scoliosis, and vertebra pressing on the nerve no matter how cautious and mindfl I can be with alignment and contraction of th eright muscles.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;74397] And if you tilt your head back, it will further compress the spine, so if that is the case, look straight ahead. [/QUOTE]

Such a pity, I really hoped one day I d be able to do the king pigeon pose. Looks so beautiful and seems to feel so great.

@Gordon

I particularly enjoyed the concept of dualism of asana, I ll keep that in mind for all of them. And yes, I admit there is no proper grounding in my pigeon pose, but just some “struggling”.
I am warm enough when I enter that pose, but maybe my hips are not open enough.
JSK already suggested an option (“reclined” pigeon), but is there any other specific asana that could lead me to find the grounding needed?

#11

Every pose has a grounding. Which is why I’m not all that keen on flying around in an asana practice - though there are clearly applications when the grounding is trumped by something greater. Usually this is therapeutic in nature.

If you are warm, and you’ve already done baddha konasana, vanarasana, supta padangusthasana, parsva and parivrtta of the same, internal and external rotation in the supine hip series, trikonasana, parsvakonasana, vira I and II, ardha pawanmuktasana, sarpasana, bhujangasana, dhanurasana, ustrasana, and setu bandha…then perhaps your hips are not open enough (thus a prop so that you can ground into something). This is one of those poses that outlines the difference between a pose which provides hip opening and one which requires it.

gordon

#12

@suryanamaskara,

Your scoliosis will also affect your back/leg. In addition to all the suggestions above:

Stretch the concavity (where it goes in) and strengthen the convexity (goes out). Imagine someone with their hands on your back, one where the convexity is and the other at the concavity side. Breathe into the convex side and soften the concave side.

And there is no need to feel sadness about not looking like the pictured pose. Each of us will look differently in each and every pose due to structural challenges, injury and overall flexibility. Props are useful in such circumstances and will provide you with the “grounding” and support needed to stay in proper alignment.

And in addition to the suggestion of reclined pigeon, try laying on your back, crossing your knees and bringing them to your chest. Grab onto your feet and bring them close to your buttocks. Hold for at least 1 minute and a bit longer on the side of your sciatica. Both are effective.

#13

Too late to edit.

Would add: proper breathing with scoliosis is very important. While I said to breathe into the convex side you should also breathe as you soften the concave side. Imagine as you are softening the concave side, the ribs are moving back into place. Conversely, as you breathe into the convex side, imagine they are moving forward.

#14

I think it is from herniated disc or piriformis syndrome? Weak glutes (maximus and medius) can contribute to piriformis syndrome as the piriformis will pick up the slack. Strengthening these muscles is important. Jamming the back (compression) will cause back pain as will a tight psoas.

#15

I ll then try the modification and I ll include few more asanas, and try again when it will be time. And I ll stop desiring to look like the pics, after all, the most benefit comes from adapting the asanas to our own body.

@lotusgirl - so you suggest a “higher”, thoracic breathing? If it is better to breathe in the convexity, then I guess this is the result. And also, should the softening of concavity happen mainly during exhalation?
I thought the proper breathing during asana practice was ujjayi, keeping the bandhas, breathing almost in the belly with slight resistence of abdominals…

#16

@suryanamaskara,

With scoliosis, breathing can become an issue. At this point I only know you have scoliosis and do not know the specifics, i.e the degree of curvature.
Breath to the area would be the complete breath. And with sending the breath there, keep your awareness there, creating space, softening, moving.

Ujjayi breath is one of many that can be used in yoga.