Psychedelics Creating Kundalini Awakening

Siva, please do not patronize me. My problem with kundalini is that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency among those who supposedly know. This suggests to me that a lot of what passes for knowledge is little more than imagination. But that is a discussion for another thread.

Bridgette, as I understand it from sources that I believe are authoritative, the arousing of kundalini is achieved by certain techniques that require a lot of discipline. I don’t think that past drug use increases the likelihood of an “awakening”.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think that its the rousing of the kundalini that produces the experience, but the piercing of the bindu.

Dear Asuri,

There is absolutely no inconsistency, because the kundalini awakening and experience for each person will be different. This is not science it is Spirit happening and we cannot expect Spirit to conform to our need for consistency.

Namaste Bridgette,

As someone who believe that drugs do give a glimmer and as someone who experienced that glimmer himself one night many moons ago and as someone who has experience kundalini awakening years later to certain degrees under the watchful guidance of my teacher Sri Druga Devi, I can assure you and tell you the glimmer that the drugs provided is nowhere near the true experience. What I can tell you was that after the drug induced glimmer I wanted to experience the Truth and it has been a force within me ever since, I was very fortunate that my teacher soon appeared in my life at that point.

Today I believe drugs can awaken ones consciousness to the possibility of kundalini, but a drug induced state will never be true kundalini awakening. Most people on drugs will be shocked out of their shoes and into a different blood group if they have truely experience kundalini during a drug induced state, our nervous system will simply not handle the energy of kundalini under that state.

[QUOTE=Bridgette;19066]I recently got into a discussion with someone about the use of psychedelics for awakening kundalini and I was curious to what other think on the matter.
For one…can a person awaken kundalini via drugs?
And is it anyway shape or form safe? (I.E Under a shamans guidance)[/QUOTE]

HI Bridgette, I suppose a person could use mushrooms or peyote but sacred weed is very good for helping one to understand yogic philosophy. I think that it was all written based on alot of heavy ganja use anyhow. I don’t think that it would be an act punishable by god to try it. I think that it possibly really would help you but of course that is ultimately your decision.

[QUOTE=siva;19694]Kundalini is not spiritual. It’s purely a physical phenomena.

siva[/QUOTE]

But that physical phenomena is based on a connection to the divine which is spiritual.

[QUOTE=Asuri;19766]Siva, please do not patronize me. My problem with kundalini is that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency among those who supposedly know. This suggests to me that a lot of what passes for knowledge is little more than imagination. But that is a discussion for another thread.

Bridgette, as I understand it from sources that I believe are authoritative, the arousing of kundalini is achieved by certain techniques that require a lot of discipline. I don’t think that past drug use increases the likelihood of an “awakening”.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think that its the rousing of the kundalini that produces the experience, but the piercing of the bindu.[/QUOTE]

How would you describe a kundalini awakening. I know taht it is different for everyone because i witnessed it at teacher training but I never got to ask what they’re experience felt like.

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;19681]Native Americans have used marijuana, tobacco, peyote, mushrooms, etc. to enter ‘spiritual’ states for centuries. Many other cultures have done the same with other naturally occuring substances.

Nothing beats the real experience. I still don’t believe licking the back of a cane toad will lead to anything but a big high and belly ache.[/QUOTE]

Who would want to do that!? Some good indigo definitely does the trick. Actually I think that when I dance, I am having a kundalini experience. I couldn’t think fast enough and I don’t have enough classical training to do what I do on the dance floor and I can dance amidst people with my eyes closed and never even touch anyone. So what is that?

[QUOTE=OmNamoShiva;19624]What does everyone think of AYAHUSCHA?

Why is that after consuming it almost everyone get visited by entities like starting with planta, fungi etc. and than Jaguars, snakes, insects?[/QUOTE]

I didn’t. I had some great times except for an animated teddy bear apparition that talked to me a couple of times. It kinda freaked me out.

[QUOTE=suryadaya;19622]I have done a little, and have been meaning to do more research on
psychedelic affects on the brain. A few of us may remember those many
studies they did with monks who were in meditation, how their brains in a
state of concentration showed electrical firings higher than an average
person, in many different areas at the same time. It was thought that these
findings showed that through meditation, they had become capable of using
their brain to a greater capacity - to think with clarity - to not be
distracted or slowed down by the fluctuations of the mind (vrittis?). They
were calm and unshakable, because over a great deal of time their minds had
been diligently trained to fire across random synapses through repetition of
the idea of unity, openness, wholeness and mental silence… (the concept of
neuro-plasticity- defined by Wiki as: “the changing of neurons and the
organization of their networks and so their function by experience” could be
an excellent explanation for how intense dedication to meditation could
rewire the brain to be… well, super-conscious). ANYWAY…

While all psychedelic drugs have a wide range of effects on the brain, they
all catalyze a ton of chemical and electrical signals to go off all over the
brain, connecting areas that usually do not usually have direct paths to one
another. People describe that they have felt conscious of things they have
never experienced, made connections between people and events (sometimes
resolving conflict, sometimes creating conspiracy theories), or perhaps they
feel transcendent-and can see the truth of situations they otherwise could
not. Some people… have bad trips too, hallucinations, getting sick. The
effect is personal and variant. I have a low running theory that these drugs
create misfiring that replicates a state near the same as the monks who have
been practicing for their whole life.

While experiencing such a state creates memories of awareness that have
caused many in the past to strive towards the studies of meditation,
spirituality and God in order to replicate it, it has many disadvantages::
It is hard to control, it cannot be induced without the aid of drugs, and it
is short term with a few lasting effects (many one or two new
neuro-pathways?) that may be inspirational; or may be dangerous to health.

The Kundalini experience is likened to a great awakening of consciousness
and spirit, so I am led to believe, that can only be achieved (or should
only be achieved) when a person is fully prepared, lest it make them crazy
or kill them or… I don’t know much about all of it. I think that many
people strive toward the Kundalini awakening for the same reason that a lot
of people I have met use a variety of drugs, because they think it will make
them highly conscious of God, of everything, that they will be able to see
the truth of life, that it will make them powerful above measure.

However, these drug inducing people (many of whom coincidentally are also
enthralled with the ideas of Kundalini)… they’re not ready. I can’t say
for sure when a person is ready, but I believe that if there is great power
to be wielded, or if there are lessons of life to be found in a pill, that
to be capable of comprehending the nature of that energy, and using it for
responsible purposes requires discipline, dedication, true knowledge of
self, and the ability to surrender that power (and the ego) fully.

I think of the this awakening as in the 4th chapter of the yoga sutras:
[B]janma osadhi mantra tapah samadhi jah siddhyayah. [/B]

This transformation, powers, awarness can be granted through [B]birth[/B], through the use of sacred herbs ([B]druuuugggss[/B]),[B] mantra[/B], the burning discipline of [B]training the senses[/B], or through deep concentration or [B]meditation[/B].

And then…
[B]Sutra 4.6 [/B]- The transformation born of meditation is the one that is anasaya, without impression, free from karmic influence, it is just as it is. (My favorite).

I’m sure many of you will disagree with these translations and feel free to correct me… I just pulled them off the Swami J and Swami Venkatesananda sites because my YSP books are all downstairs and I’ve already used up at least an hour writing this.

Anyway - If you’re going to become a doctor you go to medical school, residency etc… you build up knowledge and experience so you can do what is right. I think that if you’re going to awaken your kundalini, find God, enter Nirvana… then you should have to do the work - whether it takes you twenty minutes, twenty years or twenty lifetimes, you were mean to put in that time before you were ready to understand it. And if you are not ready, then you probably shouldn’t have it.

It’s fun to note that a few cultures recognize people with seizure
disorders (electrical misfiring again!) to be very close to God, and are
revered (or somethings the cultures think they are possessed and evil. There
are two sides to every coin). My dad had a traumatic brain injury a few years ago and suffered unusual low-grade seizures, almost all the time for three years (they never stopped). When we recently learned it and now they are controlled with medication, he is much calmer and can communicate better… but has developed a previously absent and now unalterable faith that God exists in every aspect of nature, and that we are all here for some great quest. Coincidence? Who cares! It’s beautiful to see![/QUOTE]

Do you ever wonder if we have been altered by a reptilian alien force taht wants to limit our connection to the divine and that it is therefore harder for us to reach that spiritual state because it. Plus maybe they are the ones responsible for creating such huge amounts of distractions from our spirituality?

[QUOTE=anula;19611]i once read that using drugs to reach higher states is kind of like being in the garden of eden and the gardener comes to throw you out at 5pm. Achieving these higher states without psychadelics but through practise and devotion allows you to be in the garden where no one is ever coming to throw you out!![/QUOTE]

You can use sacred substance to enhance your practice. That way you use it to learn and evolve rather than wasting the experience not that I am condoning habitual drug use or not. I don’t judge others anymore that way. I have reached incredibly high states of bliss in meditation sustained for hours on a regular basis and became a super person for a year without the help of sacred herb. Only reason it stopped is because I got worked over by a psychopath.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;19132]Since I’ve already written on marijuana use and yoga (For High Times two years ago) I don’t want to comment further as it would, at very least, be repetitive.

I will however make a general statement re: the context of this post which is awakening Kundalini.

As human beings are unique there is no ONE experience. Ergo there’s nothing sound in saying it can or it cannot be done this way or that way. My experience FOR ME may very well be that such drug use is not opening while a neighbor may have a diametrically opposing experience.

Until we can grasp this concept no true peace is possible.

There are many behaviors which allow us as human beings to hide from our true selves, hide from life’s experience, rob the soul of it’s mission for being here, now, in the physical body. Some of the hiding manifests in foods, some in thought, some in action, some in housing, clothing, automobiles…et al. Yoga is not, inherently, a path of hiding. There is nothing wrong with YOU hiding. But it would clearly impede growth on the path of yoga. So if you’re on a path of hiding, then hide, and enjoy. Just do not call it yoga as that is grossly dishonest with yourself.

Kundalini can be accidentally awakened or purposefully awakened. Both can be incredibly dangerous. It is likely pursued by those who do not have the slightest idea of it’s force or those who have a practice of many decades guided by a true seer.

The concerns are two-fold. That it is pursued from a place of craving, and desire, and ego AND that when awakened in a malaligned student the movement of the energy can go into places in the body and do severe damage.[/QUOTE]

WOW seriously!? Probably eh? YOu are right about everyone being an individual.

[QUOTE=vignam;19574]Dear friends!

Please do not get caught it into the illusion as almost all men and women. Be awake. Chemicals suppress the mind and put it in an extraordinarily dull state. If some drugs can show you the untouchable, then all the living beings can attain time-independent state.

When kundalini is awaken, nature reveals her secrets. Nothing there to learn. But when you speak it with words it become poluted, conditioned … etc. I couldn’t put it in this short para. It is something every one has to go into depth and realize. Cannot be taught by thought/words.[/QUOTE]

Don’t talk unless you know wht you are talking about you omnipotent ass!

[QUOTE=Dandelion;19783]Don’t talk unless you know wht you are talking about you omnipotent ass![/QUOTE]

Oh oh…someone’s kundalini is showing.

LOL. Sorry, but I really don’t like these pontificating caste system wreaking egotists that try to take advantage of us by trying to soften our brains with eastern gobbledygook and ‘put on’ ganja smiles just because who knows maybe they want to take over. They come over here with absolutely no understanding of hindu philosophy whatsoever and are so spiritually immature that they don’t realize that we here in the west have had about 60 years to mull this stuff over plus understand materialism. They wouldn’t know an enlightened soul if they met one because they have a built in disrespect for those who don’t show the signs which to them are lots of gold jewellery, big homes, Phd’s, suits and ties, and money talk. Many of us in the west are ahead and we should know this. Alot of these so-called enlightened ones never grew-up with anything spiritual whatsoever but they figure they can fool us. Their lives were about materialism more than our average citizen and they are usually very spoiled children in adult bodies. They like to have their own way. Very dangerous personality-that. They use what spirituality or study of psychology they know to control and dominate. That is the dark side. Not all of them are like that OF COURSE but he reminded me of the ones that disturb me.
Sorry if I am wrong but we do have to watch out for characters like that with our world being so precariously teetering on…

Ok Everybody! Siva says take a deep breath,

Could we please separate the experiencing of kundalini as different from the mechanics involved, which are not random or arbitrary, but rather strict? They involve ha and tha and their convergence from independent, alternating axes, ida and pingala, to a single, unified axis, sushumna. [B]These are not imaginary and I didn’t write the rules.[/B] If one doesn’t know what they are, then one sure as hell has not brought them together. Because even in the event of an extremely rare, accidental or partial awakening, from that point onward, one would have a very intimate understanding of these aspects.

When that alternating structure changes through the merging of ha and tha, so does the mind/spirit. It changes your perceptions of yourself and nature. How could it not? I would say that change in percpetion is similar, to a lesser degree, to the way sex changed your perception about yourself and nature. Or, if you’ve ever been swept away by the tide. How that manifests personal experience in an individual will have different dynamics and meaning and is hardly worth discussing, but that does not make subjective the forces that cause that change. In other words, being swept away by a wave gave me a spiritual experience, but do we really need to discuss whether or not waves are spiritual? Of course they are, but does it matter?

Because experience is ultimately personal, one might call it spiritual, divine, whatever, mine should hardly matter to you and yours really doesn’t matter to me. But if the cause is kundalini, then it has these physical components which either come together, rarely, with the strength and discipline gained through rigorous and sustained hatha and pranayama, or they may happen, rarely, accidentally, in which case the outcome is not pleasant. Take your pick.

Why kid yourself? Spend all that precious energy?

Krishna once told me that discussing kundalini would only agitate and confuse the minds of those attached to the fruit of their actions. I think he was right. I regret this thread.

peace,
siva

[QUOTE=siva;19794]Ok Everybody! Siva says take a deep breath,

Could we please separate the experiencing of kundalini as different from the mechanics involved, which are not random or arbitrary, but rather strict? They involve ha and tha and their convergence from independent, alternating axes, ida and pingala, to a single, unified axis, sushumna. [B]These are not imaginary and I didn’t write the rules.[/B] If one doesn’t know what they are, then one sure as hell has not brought them together. Because even in the event of an extremely rare, accidental or partial awakening, from that point onward, one would have a very intimate understanding of these aspects.

When that alternating structure changes through the merging of ha and tha, so does the mind/spirit. It changes your perceptions of yourself and nature. How could it not? I would say that change in percpetion is similar, to a lesser degree, to the way sex changed your perception about yourself and nature. Or, if you’ve ever been swept away by the tide. How that manifests personal experience in an individual will have different dynamics and meaning and is hardly worth discussing, but that does not make subjective the forces that cause that change. In other words, being swept away by a wave gave me a spiritual experience, but do we really need to discuss whether or not waves are spiritual? Of course they are, but does it matter?

Because experience is ultimately personal, one might call it spiritual, divine, whatever, mine should hardly matter to you and yours really doesn’t matter to me. But if the cause is kundalini, then it has these physical components which either come together, rarely, with the strength and discipline gained through rigorous and sustained hatha and pranayama, or they may happen, rarely, accidentally, in which case the outcome is not pleasant. Take your pick.

Why kid yourself? Spend all that precious energy?

Krishna once told me that discussing kundalini would only agitate and confuse the minds of those attached to the fruit of their actions. I think he was right. I regret this thread.

peace,
siva[/QUOTE]

I don’t know what you are talking about and neither do you by the way. It certainly isn’t because there is any lack of wisdom or intelligence about the subject on my part. I hope that you don’t get away with your pompous prattlings too much.

[QUOTE=Dandelion;19777]How would you describe a kundalini awakening…[/QUOTE]

I’m really just getting started in this area. Most of my knowledge is in the area of classical yoga and samkhya, which make very little reference to the subject, and never mention kundalini explicitly.

Kundalini is described in detail in the Hindu sacred texts. Here is one description from the Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad:

  1. Apana (breath) which has a downward tendency is forced up by one bending down. This process is called Mulabandha. When Apana is raised up and reaches the sphere of Agni (fire), then the flame of Agni grows long, being blown about by Vayu.
    44-45(a). Then Agni and Apana come to (or commingle with) Prana in a heated state. Through this Agni which is very fiery, there arises in the body the flaming (or the fire) which rouses the sleeping Kundalini through its heat.

Regarding the required preparation:

3-4. I shall explain the nature of these. Listen to it, O Gautama. One should take a sweet and nutritious food, leaving a fourth (of his stomach) unfilled, in order to please Shiva (the patron of Yogins). This is called moderate food. Posture herein required is of two kinds, Padma and Vajra.

I’m still working on padmasana.

One more thing, while past drug use doesn’t increase the likelihood of an awakening, I agree with others who have suggested that past drug use makes it more likely that one will [I]seek[/I] an awakening.

[QUOTE=Asuri;19799]I’m really just getting started in this area. Most of my knowledge is in the area of classical yoga and samkhya, which make very little reference to the subject, and never mention kundalini explicitly.

Kundalini is described in detail in the Hindu sacred texts. Here is one description from the Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad:

Regarding the required preparation:

I’m still working on padmasana.

One more thing, while past drug use doesn’t increase the likelihood of an awakening, I agree with others who have suggested that past drug use makes it more likely that one will [I]seek[/I] an awakening.[/QUOTE]

I disagree very strongly with your last statement. As for the rest of what you said I know that when we intellectualize this stuff too much, we miss the essence so in other words you are takijng the long road baby. But you know you might get by focusing on it. But don’t let the world pass you by.

[QUOTE=siva;19794]Ok Everybody! Siva says take a deep breath,

Could we please separate the experiencing of kundalini as different from the mechanics involved, which are not random or arbitrary, but rather strict? They involve ha and tha and their convergence from independent, alternating axes, ida and pingala, to a single, unified axis, sushumna. [B]These are not imaginary and I didn’t write the rules.[/B] If one doesn’t know what they are, then one sure as hell has not brought them together. Because even in the event of an extremely rare, accidental or partial awakening, from that point onward, one would have a very intimate understanding of these aspects.

When that alternating structure changes through the merging of ha and tha, so does the mind/spirit. It changes your perceptions of yourself and nature. How could it not? I would say that change in percpetion is similar, to a lesser degree, to the way sex changed your perception about yourself and nature. Or, if you’ve ever been swept away by the tide. How that manifests personal experience in an individual will have different dynamics and meaning and is hardly worth discussing, but that does not make subjective the forces that cause that change. In other words, being swept away by a wave gave me a spiritual experience, but do we really need to discuss whether or not waves are spiritual? Of course they are, but does it matter?

Because experience is ultimately personal, one might call it spiritual, divine, whatever, mine should hardly matter to you and yours really doesn’t matter to me. But if the cause is kundalini, then it has these physical components which either come together, rarely, with the strength and discipline gained through rigorous and sustained hatha and pranayama, or they may happen, rarely, accidentally, in which case the outcome is not pleasant. Take your pick.

Why kid yourself? Spend all that precious energy?

Krishna once told me that discussing kundalini would only agitate and confuse the minds of those attached to the fruit of their actions. I think he was right. I regret this thread.

peace,
siva[/QUOTE]

Siva, I expected you to jump right in there at some point. I could tell that there was something off by that cocky looking face of yours. You probably took what I said in ‘my kundalini moment’ as a direct afront to you. Ask yourself a good honest WHY…or maybe you already have the answer to that and you don’t care cause you are getting paid to mess with peoples minds…hum…could be.
Hey it is a way of getting attention for that gadget that you sell. It looks interesting and you were probably born with a nice gadget too. I might like to play with it but I’d have to gag you so i wouldn’t have to hear the nonsense that comes out of your mouth.

I’m going to take a moment out of my precious life to answer to your confused dribble.

Ok first of all this strict adherence thing does not compute and is contrary to a kundalini experience. A kundalini experience is anything but strick adherence and rules. What the philosophy is saying about that is that yes if you do a devoted practice to something-not as a deadbeat follower but with enthusiasm, interest…by being present in the moment with love then you truly do evolve but it is only if you do it with LOVE. You then ride the kundalini experience on the carpet of love which is ready when it happens. Now if your kundalinin experience was tough. Sorry fella. SOrry to hear that. And if you are basing everyone’s kundalini experience on your experience then OH MA GAWD boy! you are showing…you see…that you really don’t understand what the hell you are talking about it.

If a kundalini experience was that hard to achieve then it wouldn’t be for humans. It is our birthright and it doesn’t mean that we have to not have an earth experience to achieve it. My earth experience has helped me to see thru people like you so it has been worthwhile.

So if you are encouraging people to go off to a corner for the rest of their lives seeking enlightenment, I would say that you are under suspicion. I am a drummer and I play other instruments. I experience kundalinin thru that. I think that is what it is. On the drum I amuse myself for hours challenging myself to perfection and now I can have kundalini fun time. Believe me being a musician is all about LOVE LOVE LOVE because the feeling of connecting to the divine is HIGH HIGH HIGH. i also do this as a dancer as I mentioned before. A kundalinin moment is brilliance from the stream of consciousness that flows thru us. In your case it could be back flips…so I can see why you would want to be prepared for that.

Ok when the body and mind work together in a kundalini moment like you were saying. That is definitely correct. As the divine consciousness flows through you, you are in a heightened state of awareness and yet you co-create with your mind and senses with the experience as it comes thru. You may at such moments see sounds in colour or as shapes that you move with as they morf and flux. YOu may see teachers in spirit form who guide you with working with the energy that flows thru you. It is wide open as to what can occur. During those moments yes of course you realize that nature was not what you thought it to be and that you are so much more capable than you thought possible…like so what no big deal bud.

Another thing, as a dancer, I do study bellydance but it sure didn’t take much for me to have kundalini working thru me. Even more interesting is that when I play the recorder (flute), I don’t always know what is going to come out because alot of the time it plays itself using me. I really haven’t done my practice for that to have occurred.

Sounds like whoever taught you must have been way to high on a ‘big fatty’ to talk intelligibly. Or maybe you just get a kick out of seeing who you can kick around with your B.S. Or maybe you honestly really don’t know what the hell you are talking about or doing. What a wasted life!!!

[QUOTE=Dandelion;19851]Siva, I expected you to jump right in there at some point. I could tell that there was something off by that cocky looking face of yours. You probably took what I said in ‘my kundalini moment’ as a direct afront to you. Ask yourself a good honest WHY…or maybe you already have the answer to that and you don’t care cause you are getting paid to mess with peoples minds…hum…could be.
Hey it is a way of getting attention for that gadget that you sell. It looks interesting and you were probably born with a nice gadget too. I might like to play with it but I’d have to gag you so i wouldn’t have to hear the nonsense that comes out of your mouth.

I’m going to take a moment out of my precious life to answer to your confused dribble.

Ok first of all this strict adherence thing does not compute and is contrary to a kundalini experience. A kundalini experience is anything but strick adherence and rules. What the philosophy is saying about that is that yes if you do a devoted practice to something-not as a deadbeat follower but with enthusiasm, interest…by being present in the moment with love then you truly do evolve but it is only if you do it with LOVE. You then ride the kundalini experience on the carpet of love which is ready when it happens. Now if your kundalinin experience was tough. Sorry fella. SOrry to hear that. And if you are basing everyone’s kundalini experience on your experience then OH MA GAWD boy! you are showing…you see…that you really don’t understand what the hell you are talking about it.

If a kundalini experience was that hard to achieve then it wouldn’t be for humans. It is our birthright and it doesn’t mean that we have to not have an earth experience to achieve it. My earth experience has helped me to see thru people like you so it has been worthwhile.

So if you are encouraging people to go off to a corner for the rest of their lives seeking enlightenment, I would say that you are under suspicion. I am a drummer and I play other instruments. I experience kundalinin thru that. I think that is what it is. On the drum I amuse myself for hours challenging myself to perfection and now I can have kundalini fun time. Believe me being a musician is all about LOVE LOVE LOVE because the feeling of connecting to the divine is HIGH HIGH HIGH. i also do this as a dancer as I mentioned before. A kundalinin moment is brilliance from the stream of consciousness that flows thru us. In your case it could be back flips…so I can see why you would want to be prepared for that.

Ok when the body and mind work together in a kundalini moment like you were saying. That is definitely correct. As the divine consciousness flows through you, you are in a heightened state of awareness and yet you co-create with your mind and senses with the experience as it comes thru. You may at such moments see sounds in colour or as shapes that you move with as they morf and flux. YOu may see teachers in spirit form who guide you with working with the energy that flows thru you. It is wide open as to what can occur. During those moments yes of course you realize that nature was not what you thought it to be and that you are so much more capable than you thought possible…like so what no big deal bud.

Another thing, as a dancer, I do study bellydance but it sure didn’t take much for me to have kundalini working thru me. Even more interesting is that when I play the recorder (flute), I don’t always know what is going to come out because alot of the time it plays itself using me. I really haven’t done my practice for that to have occurred.

Sounds like whoever taught you must have been way to high on a ‘big fatty’ to talk intelligibly. Or maybe you just get a kick out of seeing who you can kick around with your B.S. Or maybe you honestly really don’t know what the hell you are talking about or doing. What a wasted life!!![/QUOTE]

Another thing Siva, learn how to communicate better. That way you might realize just how much you don’t make sense. Take an English course or maybe just have alittle life experience so you can put your studies to better use when trying to communicate what you ‘think’ you have learned.

Hiya Dandelion :slight_smile:

I can tell you’re quite passionate about the subject of this thread which I LOVE! Good for you. Is Siva right or wrong? I have no idea. Are you right or wrong? I have no idea but it’s fascinating to read everyone’s perspectives. As a compassionate human, friend, and administrator here, my only request is that you refrain from personal attacks as we all get enough of that in other areas of our life and goodness knows we deserve better. Thank you! :slight_smile: