[QUOTE=DNAch;78241]Should there not be some verifiable commonality in which the physical experiences referred to as kundalini are elicited and predicted? [/QUOTE]
DNAch,
When you and I experience the same sunrise, maybe, or if it were math, yes, but it’s not. I don’t say this to sound smart, but it’s a matter of finding the language, which will in some way always and forever be bound to art. It sucks, I know.
We can only do our best.
siva
I am just beginning Yoga, but have ended any inquiry about drugged realities. All psychoactive drugs present an alternative reality, but create diverse version of reality, not a common memorable or repeatable alternative view.
Presently, I am seeing some things as part of my reality that I don’t believe are natural, they are drug artifacts, detrimental, and perhaps terrible.
Drugs are very exciting, but random and foolish. I wanted drugs to enlighten me. They did not. They have never spoken a credible truth to me, not peyote buttons, not psilocybin mushrooms, not LSD.
At one point LSD struck me blind, but the color of the blindness was not black but orange. Thank God it passed. I blame mushrooms for a critical distraction I must bear sometimes while speaking to people. Drugs can destroy your mind.
[QUOTE=siva;78198]DNAch,
What? LOL
I have never read a more ridiculous interpretation of kundalini in all my life. Where did you get this? No offense, but it’s completed deluded and has nothing to do with either the anatomy or the phenomena, both of which have nothing to do with faith.
[B]Kundalini is not of the mind or heart, but of the body.[/B] No drug will make ha and tha come together. Absolutely nothing to do with hallucination. It has to be made to come together, bound and then lifted only with the most vigilant strength and discipline, and that’s over a extended period of time. Partial awakening is possible by accident, through shaktipat, or physical trauma of some type, but it’s fleeting and is not the controlled and balanced union that causes kundalini (or the concerted action of ha and tha, rather than alternating?) to first center in sushumna and then rise in a way that is directed. That takes not drugs or spontaneity, or wishing or faith, but mastery, skill, and more hard work than 99% of people frankly, are willing to put into it.
Sorry for the bad news. The good news is, it’s real for the lucky ones, although you still have to go to work and pay your bills.
Good luck with this one.
siva[/QUOTE]
Hello again siva, I was searching for ‘skeptic’ and this was one of the threads that came up. I’m puzzled by your view of kundalini as ‘of the body’. Do I take this to mean physical, of the same (and only) realm of existence that science acknowledges and measures?
If so, why do you say almost in the next breath:
Science is limited to the instrument with which you measure your outcome. No?
Peer reviews? So, not until all ones peers are unified in their “belief” can we call it science? We can hope that might happen someday, but a peer review of kundalini masters?
Is there some kind of ‘body’ you’re talking about that is unavailable to science? The point about peer review is not that everybody has to believe the same thing - it is to overthrow the influence of belief with hard facts measured from physical properties of the world, in this case, the world that science has so far detected as the sum total of ‘body’. These facts then may cause the scientific world to form the same belief (or ‘theory’, as we call it).
Can science measure kundalini - supposedly a mindblowing amount of energy or power - or not? If not, is that because it’s not ‘body’, or because you consider there to be some other type - a ‘subtle body’?
If it is ‘subtle body’ (undetectable by science), is that only to be found in one’s subjective experience? Do we look in vain for it from the ‘outside’ and must accept that it will always remain something subjectively known?
Then, if that’s true, how does that not make it something usually called ‘of the mind’?
Incidentally, brief googlings seem to indicate kundalini is often considered very much of the spirit - even a goddess, the energy behind creation or the spiritual entity that makes the formless take form. Are these interpretations wrong?
Kundalini is basic a tantrik name for the Moolaprakriti field of Samkhya-Yoga or quantum field. In modern language we call it zero point energy field. It is called zero point, because at absolute zero temperatures, there is predicted an infinite energy and which is also the same as the energy that is predicted to exist in a vacuum, known as vacuum energy. The vacuum energy calculated to be within a vacuum of space the area of a cup is said to be enough to boil all the oceans on the planet. In other words it is a very powerful energy. However, we do not know how to tap this energy or even whether it is possible to tap this energy at all, but some phenomena we witness maybe explainable as vacuum energy extraction such as sonoluminescence. In Yoga it is purported this universal foundation of energy(Shakti) can be awakened within the the human body itself and at the base/root chakta this energy appears. Is this true? Although the existence of ZPE/vacuum energy is predicted by Samkhya and quantum field theory, that it actually exists within the human body is a Tantric contribution. Tantra is like anatomy it is not theoretical, but practical. If the Tantriks are saying that according to their observations of the anatomy of the body this energy field does exist in the human body, then we either believe them or we don’t. I would say considering it is reported commonly and even in Western psychology it was recognized as a syndrome(Kundalini syndrome) it is actually a phenomenon that exists.
drugs can give you only experiences… can help if you have serious purpose to use it in some aspects of your temperament… or can be very disaster to your development… its very particular from person to person
but real enlightment only depend of you… if you have experiences using drugs and feel energy on kundalini… thats not the real awekening, drugs leads sometime to boghi samadhi
ganja opium and stramonium may help if you have some experienced guide guru aushadhi … but thats inst for everybody… dont think you are special cause most cases people only fool themselfs using drugs… be aware the best yogis dont use any mind alterators
Who knows kundalini. Ha.
But reverse apana. And their are physical signs. Subliminate sexual fluid/energy and their are physiological changes.
Kundalini having an effect on the mind and body can be tested.
Lots dosnt superstition and indoctrinated beliefs going around.
Reverse…apana…and thus…is kundalini…apana is not the spine;p
The Chinese know more about kundalini then yoga. They talk about reversal of apana all the time. But! Samadhi. They explain samadhi like ah backwater Hooker explains physics. Go to Chinese for kundalini. Yoga for samadhi. Lmao. They complement eachother and teach the same the
Same phenomenons
What do the Chinese say about Kundalini?
Just a question, don’t take offense, but is English your first language?
Yes sir.
English is my first language.
Although apperently I have an interesting way of speaking.
It is most often mistaken for an accent.
In essence. I apologize for the bad grammar. 
no offense taken good sir. :).
They Chinese don’t call it kundalini for one.
Lol.
In such literature they speak of samadhi in a very subjective unscientific way.
when it comes to kundalini. It’s simple. Reverse apana!
Urethra/bladder/kidneys: this is the apana that must be reversed.
I can give personal testimony.
Unfortunately I cannot explain this medical/physiological wise.
decarbonization of the blood “breath energy” is the only part I can explain in medical terms.
Microcosmic orbit.spinal breathing. Mula bandah and Maha bandah. Vajroli. These are all poor attempts to reverse apana.
I am currently working on a new theory. I am testing as we speak.
Testing is composed of practicing a method. Observing results. If results are promising. Then more testing is done. For results must be repeatable.
I search not blindly. I have a large testimony.
I care not for belief. Only analytical, logical deduction can yeild a solid efficient method.
I tell you now. The path is quick. Even for a man in heavy darkness. 
I understand much I have explained is personal testimony.
Research Chinese literature. It mirrors yoga’s core. For their cores are one in the same. " Shiva shakt/samadhi kundalini/mind body.
Google "rexresearch secret of the golden flower"
it is a good text as long as commentary is ignored.
The Huiming Jing is also a good text.
Unfortunately. Both of these texts contain jewels among thorns.
truth among fallacy.
good information among trash.
So read with great reserve please.
I disagree with much in these texts.
Dont read the commentaries!
Horrible horrible Misdirection.
Parenthesis and brackets. Avoid the nonsense written within them.
every knowledge from china is borred from india… want to know it for real, go for the original roots…
and avoid western new age ‘kundalini’ cause its very very diferent…
All I was saying is Chinese literature expands upon the reversal of apana nicely.
Samadhi.
Reversal of apana.
sexual sublimination.
Energy of breath.
If you can do ^this.
your golden
Yes?
No?
I find you interesting Ji
I reckon it’s all African.
Sometimes I wonder if by nature we are allergic to discovering any common thread. Nebulous, instinctive, intuitive and experiential commonality puts our “I”-sense at risk of being a non-entity.
We need to distinguish, define, classify, label, and personalise. That’s our comfort zone.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;79880]Sometimes I wonder if by nature we are allergic to discovering any common thread. Nebulous, instinctive, intuitive and experiential commonality puts our “I”-sense at risk of being a non-entity.
We need to distinguish, define, classify, label, and personalise. That’s our comfort zone.[/QUOTE]
Yes indeedy. There’s an unfortunate paradox in moral teachings of oneness. The “teaching” immediately spilts the world into teacher and student, and “moral” into good and bad. Then there’s all the blame and self-recrimination for not living up to the ideal, and all the rationalizing by the guru of the perfectly valid questions from neophytes who see straight through it.
Personally, I think it’s nonsense, and that’s actually why it keeps backfiring. I think we actually improve our outlook, take the pressure off ourselves and, at the same time, become more truly loving when we recognise that we are separate people who share an environment and depend on a certain degree of civility (ultimately, global harmony). Love requires otherness, otherwise it’s just narcissism. Tat-tvam-asi is an obvious lie: it’s a contradiction in terms, and morally it’s an unacheivable demand.
Recognising otherness, immediately, we don’t expect everyone to hold the same opinions as we do, behave as we do or desire what we do. From there, we can begin to negotiate. We can take a realistic look at those who threaten our survival and make rational decisions about how to respond. We don’t have to keep turning the other cheek, nor do we demonize them for challenging our world-view (which we usually do unconsciously, or with a great deal of rationalizing).
At some level, of course, we are connected. We’re made of the same stellar nuclear waste. We all share a single ancestor, biologically and cosmically. We are family, if a rather dysfunctional family.
I think yoga teaching says that improvement - the whole spiritual path towards enlightenment - begins with discrimination. The philosophy gets a little tenuous later, IMHO, but that’s great advice. Nobody avoids racism, for instance, by trying to pretend they’re colourblind. The sooner we stop trying to pretend we’re all one, and instead recognise our differences, the sooner we realise they don’t matter as much as our genetic programming tries to make us think they do. And make no mistake, we are genetically programmed to love those who are like us and fear those who are different. It’s part of how evolution works.
To me, enlightenment is largely a practical, political affair. It is through science that we discovered our bestial origins, allowing us the opportunity to rise above those instincts. Religion helped foster altruism, certainly, but mistook it for the bedrock of our existence instead of an emergent phenomenon of evolutionary advantage to those animals developing it.
We’re all stained with the blood of nature, red in tooth and claw. We’re all survivors of victims and perpetrators of unimaginable attrocities. We’re all of mixed race. We all came from ignorant savages. There’s a bit of onenness people don’t often consider.
Wups, I thought that was the What is Enlightenment thread!
Er, psychedelics and kundalini…er…
no comment. 
[B]Kundalini and trance Dance among the !Kung of southern Africa.[/B]
have not been updated since ?
charisma in a psych.
i have had a kundalini awakening through ecstasy. I will never forget how terrifying it was. It sent me into a full blown panic attack and wound up in hospital. I swallowed the ecstasy and immediately felt something change (in a bad way) in the chakra under my navel. Then i felt a massive surge shoot up inside me from that same chakra. This was not the ecstasy this was something else. For the next 6 months i felt very panicky; the same surge returning again while i was hungover and another couple of times. I could feel a bubbling/gurgling just under my navel and also a strange sensation in my left ear. It would settle a bit after eating a heavy meal. I had to cut out coffee, alcohol and any prescription medication as they all made it worse. I tried meditation to settle it but that made it worse too. Basically i had to exercise, eat healthy (really look after myself, minimise toxins), and then it eventually settled down (went back to sleep?) after a couple of years. I read a couple of books on it originally because doctors couldn’t help me. This happened in 1995 and i am writing this now because i am having similar sensations again. It is not quite as bad but is making life tough again. The gurgling is back and there is a mild feeling of terror always present, just under the surface. My physical reaction is shallow breathing/fight or flight response… Maybe it is a sign to do what i did before - get healthy and cut out all the junk. As far as i have read, the kundalini is supposed to be awakened gently through a practice like meditation or whatever. If you awaken it unnaturally through drugs like me, it shoots up way to strongly and you are certainly not ready for it. I know 2 others who have had this experience thru drugs also. If anyone out there has had the same happen to them i hope this helps.
