Psychedelics Creating Kundalini Awakening

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#81

[QUOTE=Bridgette;19066]I recently got into a discussion with someone about the use of psychedelics for awakening kundalini and I was curious to what other think on the matter.
For one…can a person awaken kundalini via drugs?
And is it anyway shape or form safe? (I.E Under a shamans guidance)[/QUOTE]

I used to spontaneously perform Bhandas when I used to smoke weed. But only after coming to yoga I realized that I was performing yoga. Psychedelics rises kundalini. But that way is useless and and damaging.

#82

Asuri,

"My problem with kundalini is that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency among those who supposedly know. "

That is true. One should understand the source of where the contradictions lie. It is because the moment the mind makes an attempt to interpret the experience, it can only distort the reality according to it’s own prejudices. This is the case not just with Kundalini, but with just about anything at all. That is why if you look in different traditions, they have different perspectives about how Kundalini works, what it is, what the chakras are - their correspondences, and so on. Even the experience of enlightenment is one of the most misunderstood phenomena. It has to be. Because to express something which cannot be grasped through thought is impossible. Different traditions will state that ones original nature is “pure consciousness”, others will state that it is nothingness, others will even go beyond nothingness and into emptiness, others have called it a soul, others have denied such a thing - there is no soul as a separate entity to be found anywhere. If we are dependent upon borrowed knowledge- then confusion is impossible to avoid. If we are dependent even upon our own knowledge, then too confusion is impossible to avoid. We should learn that all of our words and descriptions are only an attempt to represent the reality, but they cannot grasp the reality itself. Truth is inexpressible, the moment it is expressed, one has thrown a limitation upon it. And mind is such - that everything can be seen from almost infinite number of angles and perspectives. Out of this - so many different traditions, religions, belief systems, and philosophies have been born. So the question is whether it is possible to see beyond all this and create a situation where one can come to a transformation, through any means possible - whether it is scientific or not.

#83

Bridgette,

“I recently got into a discussion with someone about the use of psychedelics for awakening kundalini and I was curious to what other think on the matter.
For one…can a person awaken kundalini via drugs?”

Many things can happen, or appear to happen under the influence of drugs. One can even experience certain states of samadhi through drugs. There are methods as to how to use drugs to awaken various siddhis, as well as Kundalini. But it is my own understanding that for the majority of people, such methods should be avoided absolutely. The reason for it is that those kinds of methods stimulate your senses. Because they stimulate the senses, unless you have already come to a certain stage of balance, integration, and awareness - one is certain to become entangled. That is why in the tantric sciences - which focus very much upon methods for stimulation of the senses as a means towards awakening, before a disciple would be initiated into such processes - he had to demonstrate that he has already attained to a certain level of meditativeness. Because otherwise, once you start doing that kind of work, unless you are totally mindful - with an ability to remain grounded, then to become a prey to your own delusions becomes inevitable. Many people have become insane because of this, that they were unable to have some sense of clarity which dispelled their delusions.
So yes, definitely there are such methods. Taking drugs is one of them. But the reality is that it is not compatible for most people, and only is relevant to a very small percentage of disciples.

“And is it anyway shape or form safe? (I.E Under a shamans guidance)
[B][/B]”

Even under a shaman guidance, or a yogis guidance, unless you yourself are balanced - it is dangerous. The shaman or the yogi can only try and create an environment where you can experience as few obstacles as possible. But beyond this, it is all in your hands, you yourself must be balanced, grounded, and meditative.

The experience of a drug can be unpredictable. Sometimes, it can take you to great heights of samadhi. Sometimes, it can take you to a great nightmare. You have to be prepared for whatever these drugs start unleashing from your unconscious. Part of that preparation is to have already obtained some amount of freedom from the experience of the senses - so that whatever happens in your experience, you do not become identified with it. The moment the mind becomes identified - your vision becomes clouded, you loose all clarity. It is not just the case with drugs, but just ordinary things in life.

#84

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57276]Asuri,

"My problem with kundalini is that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency among those who supposedly know. "

That is true. One should understand the source of where the contradictions lie. It is because the moment the mind makes an attempt to interpret the experience, it can only distort the reality according to it’s own prejudices. This is the case not just with Kundalini, but with just about anything at all. That is why if you look in different traditions, they have different perspectives about how Kundalini works, what it is, what the chakras are - their correspondences, and so on. Even the experience of enlightenment is one of the most misunderstood phenomena. It has to be. Because to express something which cannot be grasped through thought is impossible. Different traditions will state that ones original nature is “pure consciousness”, others will state that it is nothingness, others will even go beyond nothingness and into emptiness, others have called it a soul, others have denied such a thing - there is no soul as a separate entity to be found anywhere. If we are dependent upon borrowed knowledge- then confusion is impossible to avoid. If we are dependent even upon our own knowledge, then too confusion is impossible to avoid. We should learn that all of our words and descriptions are only an attempt to represent the reality, but they cannot grasp the reality itself. Truth is inexpressible, the moment it is expressed, one has thrown a limitation upon it. And mind is such - that everything can be seen from almost infinite number of angles and perspectives. Out of this - so many different traditions, religions, belief systems, and philosophies have been born. So the question is whether it is possible to see beyond all this and create a situation where one can come to a transformation, through any means possible - whether it is scientific or not.[/QUOTE]

No half wit If I wanted to I could describe the entire process and ITS USES using words that others - and maybe even you - could understand.

You are an ignoramus.

They are confusing for a reason.

They leave out big keys so morons like yourself don’t understand them.

go play with your happy meal.

#85

Dear Bridgett,

Amir is clueless.

#86

Decades ago I could smoke weed and get creative. I recently had a puff and had to use yoga and meditation to bring me down. No, for me it gets in the way. If it helps you, smoke away.

#87

[QUOTE=Asuri;19657]To me, Kundalini is like a Bob Dylan song. Nobody’s really sure what it means.

Does anybody really know?[/QUOTE]

Yes. It means exactly what it awakens in my soul. Uncompromising freedom, dignity of self, and being high on the beauty of life. Oh the lyrics ? There must be some kind of way out of here … said the joker to the thief … it’s too much confusion … I can get no relief …

Omg, that episode of Battlestar Galactica where Saul is listening, having his ear on the wall: It’s in the frakking ship ! Even such a luciferic materialist dream is elevated by the real art of Dylan.

Forget chemicals. They just mess up your brain, a brain what’s already half dead. Virtual reality is the new drug, and it will rule the world, and mess up our, and our children’s souls.

#88

Hello,

Many years ago, under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms, I had an experience that very closely aligns accounts that I have read of Kundalini awakenings.

The experience was brought about without any intention of having a mystical experience, and at a very low dosage of the drug – certainly not enough that the primary effects of the drug would have been so overwhelming as to cause confusion regarding the nature of the experience. I felt more sober than I had ever felt.

During the experience, I was provided an immediate, primary, intuitive, understanding of the perfection of existence. These are the simplest terms I can use. I hope the importance of this being immediate, primary, and intuitive, are understood. This was not experienced as an abstraction.

I’m happy to discuss this more if anyone is interested, but there really isn’t much to say, or much else that can be said.

I wish it had happened under some kind of guidance, because afterwards I had absolutely no one to whom I could relate this experience. It was utterly ineffable, anyway. It became a bit of an obsession, and I did not understand at all what had happened to me.

xx

#89

[QUOTE=Bridgette;19066]For one…can a person awaken kundalini via drugs?
[/QUOTE]This is impossible. By drugs you can activate only Ida and Pingala and get some side effects out of this.

#90

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57861]This is impossible. By drugs you can activate only Ida and Pingala and get some side effects out of this.[/QUOTE]

means ur breath / energy / prana wont be on Sushumna?

sometimes THC helps

#91

[QUOTE=bjoy;57877]means ur breath / energy / prana wont be on Sushumna?
sometimes THC helps[/QUOTE]Prana shakti works on Pingala. In Sishunma is Dharma Shakti.

#92

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57907]Prana shakti works on Pingala. In Sishunma is Dharma Shakti.[/QUOTE]

the action/reaction of prana/apna is in the universe.

Live well. Enjoy your life. If you don’t, no one else will.

aum.

#93

“This is impossible. By drugs you can activate only Ida and Pingala and get some side effects out of this”

It is not really the case. And you should stop speaking of something of which you have absolutely no understanding.

There are methods which involve the use of drugs as a means towards several different things. It is not because of the drugs themselves, but the impact that the drugs have upon the mind and the subtle energies which are flowing through ones system. It is possible to use drugs to create a certain atmosphere in the mind and body which makes one capable of awakening the Kundalini - but it has to be done in a very particular way, and it is a method which is only compatible with a specific personality type. That is why, on average, it is safe to dismiss most of these methods of not having much relevance. If one wants to awaken Kundalini - learn the techniques of Tantra Yoga. All too often, people are desperate for a quick fix, with everything in life. This attitude of trying to find a quick fix is just the projection of a coward, who is too afraid to do the necessary investigation to deal with the root causes of one’s problems. So, you just try to eliminate symptoms. Even in the spiritual sciences, there are such quick fixes, but like all quick fixes - they only eliminate symptoms rather than deal with the root cause.

#94

Actually, the response and reaction of injesting psychedelics is much more measurable and predictable than trying to assertain the likely results of a belief system predicated on faith (kundalini).

This is not to say that there is not a discrete cellular arrangement mirroring the kundalin paradigm. Only that where it currently and discernably begins is usually where science ends.

It’s sort of like asking whether it’s a good idea to try to see god by taking psychedelics. If your mind is closed to any other paradigm, then it’s probably better just to stick with the one that you like. But if you’re truly a seeker and your attempt to probe your inner workings is based on the desire to gain a genuine understand of them rather than to try to amp up an already decided upon framework, then psychedelics might provide assistance.

#95

[QUOTE=DNAch;78183]Actually, the response and reaction of injesting psychedelics is much more measurable and predictable than trying to assertain the likely results of a belief system predicated on faith (kundalini).

This is not to say that there is not a discrete cellular arrangement mirroring the kundalin paradigm. Only that where it currently and discernably begins is usually where science ends.

It’s sort of like asking whether it’s a good idea to try to see god by taking psychedelics. If your mind is closed to any other paradigm, then it’s probably better just to stick with the one that you like. But if you’re truly a seeker and your attempt to probe your inner workings is based on the desire to gain a genuine understand of them rather than to try to amp up an already decided upon framework, then psychedelics might provide assistance.[/QUOTE]

DNAch,

What? LOL

I have never read a more ridiculous interpretation of kundalini in all my life. Where did you get this? No offense, but it’s completed deluded and has nothing to do with either the anatomy or the phenomena, both of which have nothing to do with faith.

Kundalini is not of the mind or heart, but of the body. No drug will make ha and tha come together. Absolutely nothing to do with hallucination. It has to be made to come together, bound and then lifted only with the most vigilant strength and discipline, and that’s over a extended period of time. Partial awakening is possible by accident, through shaktipat, or physical trauma of some type, but it’s fleeting and is not the controlled and balanced union that causes kundalini (or the concerted action of ha and tha, rather than alternating?) to first center in sushumna and then rise in a way that is directed. That takes not drugs or spontaneity, or wishing or faith, but mastery, skill, and more hard work than 99% of people frankly, are willing to put into it.

Sorry for the bad news. The good news is, it’s real for the lucky ones, although you still have to go to work and pay your bills.

Good luck with this one.

siva

#96

I’m sorry you misunderstood. I was not indicting the validity of kundalini, but simply the scientific validity of kundalini -a validity which admittedly does have its limitations. It is difficult to compare and combine psychedelic substances with kundaline however, because psychedelics come from the realm of science. They are compounds that have specific physical properties. They are analyzed within serious scientific journals using standard peer review procedures that conclude with replicable and repeatable outcomes. To the best of my knowledge, the source for kundalini is the realm of metaphor and belief system. I do not know of any scientific study conducted exploring kundalini that proves its existence. I would be interested to read about it because I do sense a yet scientifically undiscovered phenomenon occuring within my body when I practice yoga and medidate in stillness.

What I find particularly ridiculous and hypocritical is the unsavory reputation that psychedelic medicine carry with them. Like virtually everything else that exists in ahimsa, they can be extremely beneficial when used properly.

#97

Siva,
Not just DNAch’s interpretation of kundalini but many others on this thread are either ridiculous or funny. In fact, sometimes one wonders whether the rigors of this science is trivialized by the glamor of yoga styles and the freedom at the hands of the venturous. InnerAthlete rightly asked the fundamental question, ?why we want to awaken kundalini.?
If Kundalini is pure energy it would need channel strong enough to carry it and the end- purpose high enough to spend it. Otherwise the awakened power will burn a weak channel or destroy a lame target. In my limited experience even the presence of Ishvara shines forth at such intensity that the ordinary vision of ?light? is poor in comparison.
We also seem to be confusing the blissful state of Samadhi with the process that delivers it. Even Paranjali has observed that states similar to Samadhi can be reached by drugs and other means. However, there is a fundamental difference. The induced state would last only as long as the agent (drugs etc) is present. While the yogic state is achieved through practice and occurs on its own when the obstacles preventing it are taken away. Continued yoga practice brings about the Samadhi state almost at will and unaided. The state is sustained because the physio-astral support systems are purified and nurtured to do so.
But question still remains why awaken this power. The only higher purpose seems to be enlightenment for which any external orientation has to cease. We depend on air-breathing for bodily purification and food intake for energy. This requires external dependence. Kundalini eliminates even these dependencies as it is produced at Muladhara and deployed all over. Besides, kundalini is not a mere substance. As a life-force of the universe it has intelligence. Barring exceptional cases of accidental awakening (perhaps karmic in nature) Kundalini takes very long to awaken to ensure it has proper conditions to survive. Those who imagine Kundalini like a light beam of Star Wars or flame of a thousand candles are missing something vital.

#98

[QUOTE=DNAch;78199]It is difficult to compare and combine psychedelic substances with kundaline however, because psychedelics come from the realm of science. They are compounds that have specific physical properties. They are analyzed within serious scientific journals using standard peer review procedures that conclude with replicable and repeatable outcomes. To the best of my knowledge, the source for kundalini is the realm of metaphor and belief system. I do not know of any scientific study conducted exploring kundalini that proves its existence.[/QUOTE]

DNAch,

Show me the science, huh? My response to you is not about the validity of kundalini or drugs, but in your awareness of the limitations of science. I think there is a great value for you in contemplating this.

Science is limited to the instrument with which you measure your outcome. No?
Peer reviews? So, not until all ones peers are unified in their “belief” can we call it science? We can hope that might happen someday, but a peer review of kundalini masters?

Will random experience ever be science? People make believe together all the time and call it “science.” How many times they have been wrong. Take a look at history. Psychedelics have been around and in use long before they were studied scientifically. Does this also mean that before then these “extreme benefits” you mention were in the “realm of metaphor and belief?” Technically, yes, but actually not.

[QUOTE=DNAch;78199]What I find particularly ridiculous and hypocritical is the unsavory reputation that psychedelic medicine carry with them. Like virtually everything else that exists in ahimsa, they can be extremely beneficial when used properly.[/QUOTE]

Extremely beneficial, is absolutely not going to happen. Anything that reveals to you your own self conscience, is extremely beneficial, it’s why alcohol used to be referred to as “spriits?”

Again, I am not picking on you, but rather trying to elucidate an all too common barrier to understanding.

siva

#99

Thanks for your response. I believe I acknowledged the limitations of science in both of my posts. However, I’m not sure that lets “kundalini” off the hook. Should there not be some verifiable commonality in which the physical experiences referred to as kundalini are elicited and predicted? I am not a skeptic, rather I seek clarification to avoid simply emulating conditions that might be irrelevant to the experience.

Yes, science is measured by standards, but even these standards themselves must face ongoing scrutiny. Naked belief (no matter how unified) is relegated to superstition by the scientific process.

I think attempting to scientifically measure kundalini might yield great rewards. I know that scientifically measuring the effects of psychedelics have already yielded great benefits in the areas of PTSD, severe anxiety, and end of life care, just to name but a few.

However, it would seem presumptuous to attempt to ascertain the effects of psychedelics on the conjunction of physical experiences known as kundalini until a more specific understanding of tangible factors that lead to the kundalini occurrence is verified.

#100

Suhas,

Always enjoy your thoughtful posts my friend. You’re insights are always very bright and well said.

[I]“In my sleep, I dream of being awake.”[/I]

To me the question “why” is merely a rhetorical distraction and has no value at all. It’s like asking…“Why do you want to wake up?”

Why do we desire anything? What’s more important is, will any answer make a difference? Most likely not. because we know that desire has nothing to do with its object.

siva