Question for studio owners

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I recently bought a studio in South Florida…

We have a student who purchased a ‘Yearly Unlimited’ membership from the previous owner in August 2011 for $1200. This student comes to a minimum of 2 classes per day, and has even come to FOUR classes in a day on several occasions.

I have two issues with this…1st of all, his practice is VERY unsafe. He is very flexible, but his alignment is often very dangerous. He also does his own ‘practice within a practice’…aka doesn’t follow the teachers. He can often be found doing push ups during savasana… disruptive and distracting to everyone.

The second issue is that I pay the teachers based on the number of students in a class. So basically every time he comes to practice, it costs me $5. In December he attended 80 classes …aka $400 in teacher salaries!

I recently spoke to him about the above and offered him two options…a) if he chooses to attend more than one class in a day he would need to pay $5 extra per class or b) I would refund his $ he paid for the months he hasn’t used yet.

He didn’t like either of the above options and told me he was willing to pay $50 extra per month. That doesn’t work for me as it still doesn’t cover his costs.

Any suggestions on how to handle this? Opinions? Anyone ever have this problem with a student? ALL of the teachers have expressed their concern for his safety with him during their classes but he continues to ignore any and all suggestions.

Comments will be greatly appreciated!

Meredith

#2

This is a tough one for you. I feel for you. If you agreed to honouring prior memberships and passes, then you need to be true to that.

Going forward, you may want to ‘limit’ your unlimited passes, but you may find this is that case in a thousand. The individual is an egoist who cares only for his own needs, but that is obvious.

As a studio owner I see a couple of options:

  • offer to refund the balance of his membership, plus $50 per month to sweeten the deal.

  • cancel his membership and pay him out in full. You would still be ahead financially. You have 7 months remaining, at $400 per month that’s $2,800 out vs $1,200. Cut your losses. In the event he says no, then bar him based on the fact he is a disruptive force in the studio and you are prepared to take things to the next level if needed (unfortunately, this comes with the territory in business ownership).

  • explain your predicament to your instructors and ask that he be excluded from the pay agreement with them. Hopefully they will be kind and see this as an act of good karma.

  • accept his $50 extra to help cover some costs and put up with it until his membership expires and refuse to sell him an unlimited membership going forward. He would be allowed to practice at the studio on a drop in basis only.

The practitioner is generating strong negative energy for you, which will disrupt your enjoyment of new endeavour, and also affect your students negatively. Although he has every right to do what he is doing, you do not have to like it. This behavior is similar to the person who comes to the all-you-can eat buffet and never leaves. I bet there is legal precedent regarding fair-deal procedures, if you want to go that route.

Or, taking a scene from the Simpsons TV show: advertise a ‘come see the yoga freak’ event to bring in new drop ins :slight_smile:

Thanks for posting this. I may consider adding a caveat to my unlimited memberships, and would be very interested if anyone on the forum has done this with their memberships.

#3

The suggestions offered so far are great, and I’d like to offer another.

This option addresses his ‘unsafe’ style, some of your cost issues, and truly offers a service tobyour student.

Someone who is choosing to come to so many classes is seeking something they haven’t yet been able to find. This could in part be due to allignment, or mental focus. As a studio owner, you are in a unique position to help this student take his practice to the next level.

What is it that he wants? A physical asana practice? If he is doing pushups during classes, why is he even coming? It’s possible he would be better suited to a different style of yoga, or studio.

I’m not suggesting that you offload him as a ‘problem’ to another ‘rival’ studio- I’m suggesting that you help him discover his path. Maybe he should stay with you, but attend different classes… Or maybe he needs to go elsewhere.

I suggest talking to him to see what it is he really needs. Perhaps this will put you in a difficult position be use of your previous conversations around his studio use and money. Is there an instructor at your studio that resonates especially well with him? Maybe they would be willing to help- this is karma yoga… Perhaps they would be willing to offer him private sessions ( every 2 weeks or so) to focus on his needs. This could be offered in exchange for him agreeing to attend 1 class daily, and requiring ‘safe’ practices.

During this session you could focus on alignment and the moe subtle aspects of yoga.

I understand that he is ‘costing you’, but I’m certain that between yourself and the instructors, you can find a solution that benefits each of you.

God luck, and let us know how it works out :slight_smile:

#4

Yes Jen, this is also an option. (and one I first considered adding).

#5

He seems to be very enthusiastic about yoga, but you see him as a problem. That is the problem with commercial yoga, it is all about the money money money. Yoga is also not about following the teaching militairy style. It is only a good business model to make everyone do the same thing, but it is not the best thing for the student. If other students find it disruptive that someone does push ups, perhaps they are better suited with a membership to a relaxation spa than a yoga studio. Obviously the yoga isn’t helping them in calming their mind.

#6

Meredith -
Do you offer an annual unlimited package yourself? How would you deal with this again in the future with any unlimited program, whether it be a week or a month? If you agreed to honor the passes from the previous teacher, then that is what you should do, regardless of how many times per day he does come. It was generous that he offered to pay you at all, as it was in the contract that he be able to do this.

Now, there may be a few things you can offer him which will benefit him more.

To begin with, why does he come so often? It is well enough to practice several times a day… perhaps he needs the energy, or it gives him calm, or maybe he is running from something else? There must be some motivation… but there is also likely a way that he can achieve these same benefits with much less work. If there is a way that you could negotiate him coming perhaps only once a day, five times a week, and then trade for one or two private lessons with an experienced teacher a week, I think this would be a good bargain. He would benefit from someone who could assess his weaknesses and strengths, know his goals, know the state of his mind, and then give him a practice which falls in line with his ability and his limitations. You said that he has poor alignment, and that he feels the need to push himself beyond the instruction in classes - these are all things that could be better addressed with a teacher who could work with him individually. With personal guidance, he may practice at home more often, and only need to come in for the private meetings in order to have his physical and mental progress assessed and his practice adapted to reflect the changes, and to increase the challenge for him (on whatever level is right for where he is). A practice could be developed for him which is physically challenging enough to give him what he looking for, but is safer and more tailored to his protection. You could even have the teacher record it on an mp3 or even a video, so that he would carry the guidance home with him. To prevent boredom, just make sure that they change it up often.

The only requirement of this is that you have a teacher who is capable of undertaking that sort of challenge, and who won’t charge you a lot for it… but there is probably someone out there who would be willing to strike a bargain or trade with you in a way that is mutually beneficial. If you have the space, perhaps there is a local teacher who would trade classes for access to a room an hour a week for their personal group, or someone who needs more experience and a good reference. As a fledgling teacher myself, I would welcome the chance to investigate such a person and work with them to help them find what they need, so keep your eyes and ears open for such opportunity.

#7

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help! Some great suggestions … and options I hadn’t considered.

Mostly you helped me reframe the situation into something I’m going to consider a personal challenge as opposed to a problem. In the end, hopefully I will learn something from this situation that will help ME be a better teacher and a better studio/business owner.

Interestingly enough, this ‘challenging’ student HAS ventured to other studios and other types of yoga but always comes back. He VERY proudly announced he was going to an Ashtanga studio a few weeks ago as he had done some research and thought it was a better type of yoga for someone with a strong practice like his (I actually thought it would be great for him)… he quickly discovered this particular studio is very strict and they didn’t tolerate his ‘variations’. Same thing happened at a local Bikram studio.

The reality is that I’m not legally obligated to honor memberships from the previous owner…rather it was a personal commitment I made. The previous owner basically abandoned the studio and moved out of state. I just went to the land lord and signed my own lease and took over. It’s tempting to tell him to buzz off but that would be the easy way out:)

As for future ‘unlimited’ packages…got that one covered! There is a very clear disclaimer on it as of January 1st 2012, ‘unlimited’ memberships include a maximum of 30 classes per month, and no more than 2 classes per day. If they want to take more than 30 classes, they can for $10 (our normal drop in rate is $19.00).

As for the thoughts on ‘commercial yoga’ being all about $$$$ …I think that’s kind of unfair. I have practiced at this studio for years and I care very deeply about the students, many of whom are my friends. While I’d certainly love to not have to charge anyone, at the end of the day I’m a single parent to three children. And yes, I agree that the people who are bothered by his distracting behavior DO need to work on their own practice so they aren’t affected by it. The studio is located in a VERY wealthy area and unfortunately, they find a lot to complain about (we had a woman storm out of class because another student was COUGHING recently). It is what it is and we do our best to keep everyone happy:)

And finally…we ARE encouraging him to take workshops, etc. In fact, we’ve been pushing him to do our Teacher Training. Not interested at all…hmph!

Again, thank you so much and I will keep you posted… I am enjoying this dialogue very much! As a new owner, I’ve got a lot to learn and your advice is invaluable.

#8

Hello Meredith.

For me the two issues are two issues and I would approach them as such.

The priority must be that which places the students at risk. When we have been well-guided as both students and teachers, we come to realize that there is a harmony in group practice. To attend group practice ([I]mysore[/I] [I]excluded[/I]) is to relinquish the “personal practice”, the ego, and the craving to do your “own thing”. A student still clinging ([I]raga[/I]) to such immature obstacles (on the path of yoga) must leave them at home.

As a teacher I am well aware that there is a time and place for doing something that is not being done by the class. That doing is done in integrity with the person leading the class (the teacher). It is done so out of respect. Students who cannot respect the teacher, others, or themselves are either raw beginners (and therefore we extend grace and patience to allow them to learn) or they have completely missed Yoga (the point) in their zeal to aggrandize their ego.

Do take the teaching opportunities (attempt to educate the student about respect in the practice, the harmonics of group practice, and the requirements, vayus, and benefits of Savasana) but that taking should not extend to being a Welcome Mat. Just as students pick appropriate teachers so too do teachers pick appropriate students - this is outlined on the registration form and signed by each and every student (hint).

The second issue of the annual pass, that is merely a matter of feeling your philosophy and applying it. You are not obligated to do anything more than be fair, compassionate, and thoughtful in your process. If your model is one where such passes are not issued, then simply pro-rate the remainder of the pass and tell the student this studio is transforming, just as students do, and changes are afoot.

Since you’ve stated a new policy (re: disclaimer) then all students should be abiding by the new structure. It is not your responsibility to honor any arrangements entered into by the previous owner unless you are compelled by either binding contract or very strong pull in the heart center.

Handle this skillfully, quickly, and decisively, then move on to your next challenge.

Warmly,

gordon

#9

I agree that the student should follow the guidance of the teacher, the problem though is that many yoga teachers are incompetent in guiding a student on his/her own level. You have to ask as a teacher why is someone doing other things. If it is because of boredom, then that is an attitude problem. But perhaps there is some rationale behind it. You are not some army general, so communicate with the person. There could be some physical restriction/ pain that prevents the student from doing what you are asking, or perhaps you are giving him asana’s that are not challenging enough for his level or even too difficult.

The person knows his own body best, it possible that someone needs to do certain intermediate steps between asanas to prepare the body, perhaps he is doing that intuitively. The teacher may be giving alignment cues that are not right for this particular individual. Every yoga teacher has their own idea what proper alignment is, but the teacher is not always right about this. Some teachers even give alignment cues that defy the rules of physics and anatomy. Obviously, I don’t know this person and I think doing push ups during shavasana is very strange. I would be amused to see someone doing that. If group lessons don’t work, you could persuade him to take some private lessons.

Yes, I am assuming here a lot about what the teachers could improve, but more often than not, it is the teacher who needs to leave their ego at the door. You say the guy is very flexible, if you ask me he must be doing something right. The instructor could be jealous about this and make up excuses about his alignment being wrong. Yoga teachers are known for their big egos and for trying to sound pompous trowing around words they themselves don’t understand. Most yoga teachers are not yoga masters and even a master sometimes give the wrong advice to a student, for example when Krishnamacharya’s pushy advice caused Iyengar to tear his hamstring. Do not take yourself too serious as a yoga teacher, your knowledge of yoga is very limited. You are just as much a student of yoga as the people attending your class, maybe you should pay the people who attend your class.

#10

Yes, you are making many assumptions. Let’s start with the most glaring and incorrect one…“Do not take yourself too serious as a yoga teacher, your knowledge of yoga is very limited”. While I am an RYT200, I personally DON’T EVEN TEACH.

The teachers at the studio are FAR from the egocentric, jealous people you describe…and all have unique and extensive training. None claim to be ‘yoga masters’. Look, we are just a small neighborhood studio, nothing more, nothing less.

And finally…this individual is not flexible because of his yoga practice…he is a former ballet dancer from Russia. His balance is precarious at best and he hasn’t begun to learn inversions.

Clearly your beef is with the ‘business of yoga’… but without the ‘business of yoga’, where would people learn? How would people find yoga? How do teachers live if they don’t charge for their services? Are you suggesting that nobody should make money to teach yoga? I don’t really understand what your expectation is here. Do you have a job that you are paid to do?

#11

Regarding your original issue…I think it’s a good idea to at least try to turn a negative into a positive, but mind it’s not a function of ego.

In the words of the great and wise Yogi Berra 'There are some people who, if they don’t already know, you can’t tell ‘em.’

#12

Love the Yogi Berra quotes FlexPenguin:)

Thanks again for your input!

#13

Gordon, thank you for getting down to the root of this ‘problem’. Sometimes it takes another set of eyes to put things into perspective.

#14

[QUOTE=meredithmiami;69261]Yes, you are making many assumptions. Let’s start with the most glaring and incorrect one…“Do not take yourself too serious as a yoga teacher, your knowledge of yoga is very limited”. While I am an RYT200, I personally DON’T EVEN TEACH.

The teachers at the studio are FAR from the egocentric, jealous people you describe…and all have unique and extensive training. None claim to be ‘yoga masters’. Look, we are just a small neighborhood studio, nothing more, nothing less.

And finally…this individual is not flexible because of his yoga practice…he is a former ballet dancer from Russia. His balance is precarious at best and he hasn’t begun to learn inversions.

Clearly your beef is with the ‘business of yoga’… but without the ‘business of yoga’, where would people learn? How would people find yoga? How do teachers live if they don’t charge for their services? Are you suggesting that nobody should make money to teach yoga? I don’t really understand what your expectation is here. Do you have a job that you are paid to do?[/QUOTE]

That is right, I do have beef with the business of yoga. Who gives you (or the people who are employed by you) the right to teach yoga for money. If you are a yoga enthusiast, teach yoga for free and get a real job. I have learned yoga for free from a priest who imigrated from India and the rest I learned from self study. I am not going to pay some poser in yoga pants to teach me to bend over.

#15

um…ok… so, does this only apply to yoga or teaching anything? If I studied mathematics, I shouldn’t be a paid math teacher, rather I should teach others for free? Teaching in general shouldn’t be a paid job?

We don’t have a lot of Indian priests in the Miami Beach area willing to pay a commercial lease for space enough to teach the 60 students a day who walk through our doors, for free. Or, as you suggest, additionally willing to pay the students to attend.

Your path to yoga is the only ‘correct’ path?

#16

um…ok… so, does this only apply to yoga or teaching anything? If I studied mathematics, I shouldn’t be a paid math teacher, rather I should teach others for free? Teaching in general shouldn’t be a paid job?

Donations can be accepted for teaching yoga only when the person teaching is an adept in yoga (not just postures) and lives a regulated life according the teachings of yoga, not by someone with a certification course or with a lot of imagination. Otherwise teaching should be done as volunteering.

We don’t have a lot of Indian priests in the Miami Beach area willing to pay a commercial lease for space enough to teach the 60 students a day who walk through our doors, for free. Or, as you suggest, additionally willing to pay the students to attend.
You don’t need an Indian priest, anyone who is proficient in yoga can volunteer.

#17

Ok, so you ARE saying this just applies to teaching yoga, not just teaching in general?

Indian priest, volunteers, whomever…I have never heard of someone willing to support such an enterprise.

How about you? Are you available? Do you want to come to Miami Beach? If so, I will sign my studio over to you tomorrow. You will need about 7k a month for overhead (lease, power, water, phone, licenses), and then of course the extra money you will pay the students so that you can teach them. Since you will be the only teacher (the other, “fake” teachers have to feed their families so they won’t be able to help for free). The area itself is rather expensive so unless you plan to live on the streets (the studio is commercially zoned, so you can’t live there), you should plan to spend another few thousand or so to survive.

You get the point.

#18

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;69268] I am not going to pay some poser in yoga pants to teach me to bend over.[/QUOTE]

Let me say right here and now that I have accelerated my personal practice by leaving this one alone :stuck_out_tongue:

As to your other comment on yoga for free, and who gave me the right to offer and charge for yoga practice; I am a studio owner and avid practitioner. My ‘right’ was grandfathered in since Swami Vivekananda began touring Europe and North America in the 1890s getting a few bucks and sending it back to India. This does not make him a bad guy - in fact, from what I read, he was a pretty decent fellow! Then, in the 1920s, another decent fellow named Mr. T. Krishnamacharya opened a Hatha yoga school in India and charged students to attend, among them B.K.S. Iyengar, T.K.V. Desikachar and Pattabhi Jois, who also went on to found solid disciplines and became very wealthy in the meantime. Their successors have raised the bar of yoga entrepreneurship to new heights (the oft quoted Bikram Choudhury, for one). So, if those decent fellows can do it, and train and charge my instructors to go forward and teach, then I can provide a space and forum for them to do so. Therein lies my ‘right’.

#19

Ok, so you ARE saying this just applies to teaching yoga, not just teaching in general?

Indian priest, volunteers, whomever…I have never heard of someone willing to support such an enterprise.

How about you? Are you available? Do you want to come to Miami Beach? If so, I will sign my studio over to you tomorrow. You will need about 7k a month for overhead (lease, power, water, phone, licenses), and then of course the extra money you will pay the students so that you can teach them. Since you will be the only teacher (the other, “fake” teachers have to feed their families so they won’t be able to help for free). The area itself is rather expensive so unless you plan to live on the streets (the studio is commercially zoned, so you can’t live there), you should plan to spend another few thousand or so to survive.

You get the point.

You have created all those conditions yourself, who says a studio in Miami is necessary, who says teaching needs to be done full time or that one person needs to teach an entire city. Anyone who is proficient in yoga can organise something in their backyard for one or two hours a week, or in some public space like a temple.

#20

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;69274]Let me say right here and now that I have accelerated my personal practice by leaving this one alone :stuck_out_tongue:

As to your other comment on yoga for free, and who gave me the right to offer and charge for yoga practice; I am a studio owner and avid practitioner. My ‘right’ was grandfathered in since Swami Vivekananda began touring Europe and North America in the 1890s getting a few bucks and sending it back to India. This does not make him a bad guy - in fact, from what I read, he was a pretty decent fellow! Then, in the 1920s, another decent fellow named Mr. T. Krishnamacharya opened a Hatha yoga school in India and charged students to attend, among them B.K.S. Iyengar, T.K.V. Desikachar and Pattabhi Jois, who also went on to found solid disciplines and became very wealthy in the meantime. Their successors have raised the bar of yoga entrepreneurship to new heights (the oft quoted Bikram Choudhury, for one). So, if those decent fellows can do it, and train and charge my instructors to go forward and teach, then I can provide a space and forum for them to do so. Therein lies my ‘right’.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, if someone lives a regulated life and is a yoga adept than they can accept donations for their teachings. Krishnamacharya was a good man, but everything went down hill after him and the commercialism started creeping in. I don’t have much respect for Vivekananda, he was simply a diplomat who was good at telling people what they like to hear.