Questions from a begginer

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi everybody,

my name is Adrien, I’m french and I’m 27 years old. I recently started Yoga, in the aim of getting some of the benefits that are said to come as side effects from such a practice. I already have a spirituality (theravada buddhism), and I’m only seeking for the physical and psychical health and well-being offered by a light practice of yoga. I think it can help me to reduce my (regular) colds in winter, and also to get a better meditation (as when you start to eat better). I also believe that there is a lot more benefits, but I don’t feel the need to know about them all : I will just enjoy discovering them when they show up. With this in mind, I bought a book which seemed to fulfill what I was looking for : “Yoga self-taught” by Andr? Van Lysebeth (“J’apprends le Yoga” in french).

After a few weeks, some questions have arisen regarding the practice (some things are not clear in the book). I registered in a french Yoga forum to ask my questions, but I basically didn’t get any other answer than “you ask yourself too much questions” and “go see a real teacher”.
I admit that it’s true : I ask myself a lot of questions, but that’s just the way I am (and I don’t think that means one should not answer [B]any[/B] of them). Knowing this, I reduced my questions to the minimum : see below. About seeing a real teacher : I don’t want to do that (at least not right now), and please don’t write to me if it’s your only advice, because it won’t help at all (even if I’m wrong, and that would be “the best” for me).

Here are my questions :

  1. Is “Yoga self-taught” a good choice regarding my aims ? In the french forum, someone told me that it’s the worst book to start Yoga… What kind of practice should I get involved with to get a good physical and psychical health ?

  2. In his book, the author speaks about “complete yogic breathing”. The inspiration starts from the abdomen, and then continues with the thorax and the upper part of the lungs. But the explanation about the expiration is confuse to me : wich part should I empty first : the upper part of the lungs or the abdomen ? I’ve been told that both (and many other) way of practicing breathing exist, and that they all have different effects, but I didn’t get any clue about anything that could help me choose one.

  3. During the expiration, how should I control the flow ? Only with the abdomen and the lungs, or can I use my throat (I mean using my tongue to block a part of the air coming out : you will understand what I mean if you try sing a single note while whispering).

  4. How should I breath in daily life ? Is breathing with the abdomen only ok, or should I try to involve the upper parts of the lungs as well ?

Thanks in advance,

Adrien

#2

If you have reoccurring respiratory issues you will want to find expert advice for yogic kriya cleansing techniques of the sinuses, a pranayama and asana practice, similar to what Gordon says, these are only splinters in the forest of yoga that will aid your healing. Realize you have limited the vastness of Yoga before you?ve begun [B]?I’m only seeking for the physical and psychical health and well-being offered by a light practice of yoga?[/B] exploring all 8 limbs of yoga will most likely complement your overall health as well as your ?theravada Buddhism? practice.

#3

Thank you for your answer. I will ask an expert when I have the opportunity, but colds healing is not really a priority (I mean I will continue practicing even if I still get colds).

Also, I do not wish for now to involve in a thorough practice of Yoga, but maybe later, we’ll see. I’m sure the “8 limbs” would help me a lot for my health (it’s weird to say that as I’m already quite healthy right now), but for now, I will content myself with the basics of “occidental biaised yoga” and the limited benefits it brings along.

I’m sorry if I annoy anyone by using Yoga in such a “materialistic way”, I know Yoga is a treasure and that it’s far more than what I want to extract from it.

#4

Dont let people turn you off because you are only looking at physical aspects of yoga ie asana. I believe alot of us who love yoga actually started due to physical reasons, the more you practise asanas the more the other limbs will come to you.

Personally i started yoga 20 years ago to go with my girlfriend…didnt want no mumbo jumbo crap…now i follow the whole 8 limbs, yoga is a big part of my life.

I wonder how many people are turned away when they first enquire as people keep telling them asana is not yoga. Just start asanas, the rest will come

#5

Thanks jumpers, that is totally the way I see things. I’m perfectly aware of all of this, and I don’t necessary reject the other limbs : it’s just not what I seek for the moment. As it happened for you, I think it’s totally possible that I will get more interested with them later…

#6

On behalf of the third question (expiration): It depends on the system one might be following. In the system I follow for example (Satyananda, and Saraswati lineage), you begin with the diaphragm, then continue with your intercostal muscles (in your chest’s sides), and end with your upper chest, at a 4:3:1 duration ratio. So you completely empty out your lungs.
The inspiration would be exactly the reversal.

#7

Thanks panoramix, you seem to have answered to the second point (not the third).

Did you mean “The [B]expiration[/B] would be exactly the reversal” in your last sentence ?
Or maybe I understood you well :

Expiration :

  1. Empty the abdomen (4 units of time)
  2. Empty the chest (3 units of time)
  3. Emtpy the upper chest (1 unit of time)

Inspiration :

  1. Fill up the upper chest (1 unit of time)
  2. Fill up the chest (3 units of time)
  3. Fill up the abdomen (4 units of time)

Is that it ?

I know that there are many ways to practice breathing, but I just need to understand only one of them correctly so I can practice… So thank you for helping me with your own practice !

#8

[QUOTE=jumpers;77601]Dont let people turn you off because you are only looking at physical aspects of yoga ie asana.[/QUOTE]

No one mentions a turn off in this thread I’m curious why you brought it up?

[QUOTE=jumpers;77601]
I believe alot of us who love yoga actually started due to physical reasons, the more you practise asanas the more the other limbs will come to you.[/QUOTE]

A belief is a figment of your imagination simply a like or dislike of your mind understand there are 7 billion different human minds occupying the planet each having their own meaningless likes or dislikes.

[QUOTE=jumpers;77601]Personally i started yoga 20 years ago to go with my girlfriend…didnt want no mumbo jumbo crap…now i follow the whole 8 limbs, yoga is a big part of my life.[/QUOTE]

This is my experince also except it’s so long ago I don’t count the years anymore.

[QUOTE=jumpers;77601]I wonder how many people are turned away when they first enquire as people keep telling them asana is not yoga. Just start asanas, the rest will come[/QUOTE]

It seems as if you are assuming something that was never mentioned in this thread?

#9

Adrien,

I would like to address your original post only. You are a beginner? Much of what you read is not for you.

Simple:

Q. 1 - NO. If you could teach your self yoga, you would be the first and only person to have done so (unless you are a rishi).

Q. 2 - Complete Yogic Breathing is not for beginners. In fact, doing so will only compromise your progress. You have to stick with abdominal breath for some years, both inhalation and exhalation through the nose. However, as you progress from abdominal to thoracic breathing, you fill from bottom to top, and empty the same, bottom to top, squeezing the abdomen first, then ribs.

Q. 3 - Control your exhalation with abdominal control and your posture. Yes, you can also use the throat, which is called Ujjayi, but don’t make a habit of it. Regulate rate and capacity evenly, in and out 1:1, or at a ratio of 1:2, for example inhaling count of 3, exhaling count of 6. I personally have always done 1:1, but it’s only a matter of what it is you’re practicing. It’s important to understand that an exercise is different from your habit: rules of exercise are different from rules of practice?

Q. 4 - Breathe through your nose, (unless you cannot sustain comfortable breath, for example during exertion). Breathe in the direction of your movement, for example inhale when you stand up, exhale when you sit down, inhale when you reach up, exhale when you relax: inhale up and out, exhale in and down. That means being aware of the breath just prior to your actions, for example having inhaled before you exhale to bend over and pick up your socks?

That my dear is yoga, and more important than anything else. If after practicing for weeks and months, you are not doing this consciously and deliberately, the essence of yoga will escape you.

Bring the divine into your every action: this is true education.

peace,
siva

#10

Well thank you Siva, very helpfull. I note that when I have time and money (next year when I won’t be preparing a difficult competitive examination anymore), I should try a Yoga class.

There is just a little part that I didn’t understand due to my limited english : “inhale up and out, exhale in and down”. Could you rephrase it ?

I will try to use “breathing before acting”, and lucky me : it’s totally compatible (and even usefull) for my current spiritual practice. I will also avoid controlling the flow with my throat as you advise me, and only use my nose for breathing exercises.

Ok, time to get up now : let’s breath in !

#11

Hello Adrien,

Welcome to the forum. I hope you’ll find what you are looking for, both here in the community and within yourself via the practice(s) you’ve chosen.

Relative to your questions let me respond to them directly.

The book you reference I have not read. I am aware of it but have not studied it and therefore I could not say what its effectiveness may be. And, frankly, I’m not in a position to determine a “best” anything. One thing may work for me but not at all work for you. That having been said I’ve found Yoga: The Path to Holistic Health by BKS Iyengar to be a helpful beginners book. Why? It has sound posture, color photos, sections for reference, and some sequencing. This is a way to BEGIN a practice but eventually if you stick with it someone will have to unteach you to teach you and there is no guarantee you will not misunderstand the (book) teachings and inflict harm on yourself. Just so we are clear with expectations.

Breath work is not the first step of teaching for beginners. Additionally in the yoga in which I train, teach, study…we do not breathe into the abdomen. I’ve talked about this many times and will not go into that here. Simply put, if your “teacher” is telling you to do it you’ll have to ask him/her. I do not teach that way nor do I advocate it.

There is no sound reason for a beginning student to “control the expiration”. If you are doing an asana practice and you are maintaining the movement of your breath in a smooth fashion that is enough.

In daily life one should breathe, period. For yoga’s purposes the breath is retained in its home. That home is the lungs. Ergo when doing pranayama (which is NOT your daily breath) the breath is kept between the diaphragm and collar bones. This is a fine area in which to breathe in daily living - unless of course you are a signer of opera and you are performing.

Hope this helps.

Gordon

#12

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;77611]No one mentions a turn off in this thread I’m curious why you brought it up?

A belief is a figment of your imagination simply a like or dislike of your mind understand there are 7 billion different human minds occupying the planet each having their own meaningless likes or dislikes.

This is my experince also except it’s so long ago I don’t count the years anymore.

It seems as if you are assuming something that was never mentioned in this thread?[/QUOTE]

Why - because the op was already apologising for appearing as “materialistic”. Maybe i shouldnt have said anything in this thread i apologise.
Its just that where i live (australia) alot of people (espec males) are kinda pushed away from yoga becuase they iniatially only looking at physical aspects - and all experienced yogis tell them yoga aint for you…

ps also dount count the years, think i lost count during deviate teenage years.
Sorry ruin thread - wont do again

#13

[QUOTE=jumpers;77638] - and all experienced yogis tell them yoga aint for you…[/QUOTE]

Strange. That doesn’t sound like any experienced yogis I know… Has Australian yoga evolved differently?

#14

Hello My fried, I was also started Yoga same like you. I was having so much problems, asked my questions in forum, but there was no any answer which can solve my problem properly. After some days i found a yoga Retreats, named as Featheredpipe Foundation.
I visited their website and contacted them. The people from Featheredpipe helped me like Yoga Guru. They are so experienced that they have solved my problems one by one. Now i am also a Yoga Teacher, but i used to teach yoga for free to the needy people. Now i will suggest you to please contact them once and feel the difference.

#15

[QUOTE=Adrien;77626]There is just a little part that I didn’t understand due to my limited english : “inhale up and out, exhale in and down”. Could you rephrase it ?![/QUOTE]

Adrien,

You coordinate your inhalation and exhalation with your movement: outward/upward movements with inhalation, such as reaching up into a cupboard, picking an apple from a tree, folding laundry, etc. when the arms go up, when you stand up, INHALE. When you bend over, sit down, when arms come down after having reached up, EXHALE. What this means is being aware of the breath just prior to your action. For example, when I pick the apple from the tree, I exhale first before reaching up with inhalation. This is yoga.

Sun Salutation is an example of training yourself to breathe in this way, but then continue into the day in the same fashion whenever possible, or attach it to a chore, i.e., pulling groceries out of a cart: you bend over, exhale, you pick something up and extend, inhale, etc. If you’re going to become a yogi, this has to become your aim. Yoga does not end when you’re done with asana, it’s all the time and forever.

I hope that’s clear.

siva

#16

Perfectly clear, thank you siva !

Thank you everybody for your answers, it’s been very helpful.

#17

[QUOTE=jumpers;77638]Maybe i shouldnt have said anything in this thread i apologise.

Sorry ruin thread - wont do again[/QUOTE]

You didn’t ruin the thread, write whenever you feel motivated.