Religious pluralism vs Religious intolerance

But that is the point, we need to plant the seed in Christianity that another interpretation of their doctrines is possible i.e., a dharmic one. This will cause division in Christianity, and weaken the orthodoxy. It is already happening as we speak, mantra jaap meditation is being practiced within official Churches. Most people defending Yoga from Church authorities are Christians. The official Church organization feels so threatened, it has had to start its own Christian Yoga.

Our Hindu gurus were very clever people. Follow their example.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53746]Everyone has discriminatory attitudes towards…well, anything really. Its just way things work. I have my share of anti-Christianity/Islam biases and so does SD.

No, I suppose not. I guess I can take you off my ignore list. No hard feelings then?

By the way, I always respected you for your knowledge despite our differences in opinion. Same goes for SD, Yulaw, and others in this forum.

[/QUOTE]

Hard Feelings? No. of course not.

I don’t think we really differ all that much in opinion - i’m just kinda more on the fence - in the middle - I think.

Sometimes I find it peaceful here.

Wisdom arises from experience. In particular it arises from sadhana. < REMINDER. :cool:

I have some work to do so I will join back in this thread later sometime.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53755]But that is what is happening, the new age revolution of spirituality/yoga/paganism is a fact of our times. The people instrumental in this were the countless Hindu gurus that went West, but not a single one condemned the native religions. It is due to their efforts today, I can sit and talk about Vedic stuff with white people.

A phenomenona you are missing out is called globalization. We are not living in times like before where it would would months or days to get a message across to the other side of the world, we are living in an age of communications, where the world has become a global village. I am talking to you thousands of miles away pretty much live. It is impossible for any culture to remain the same in todays world, every culture is going to get affected by other cultures. At this moment that dominant culture driving globalization is Westernization. This is simply a fact of our times. Hindus guru’s have started a new age movement there, which has over the decades caused many revolutions here. What Hindus need to is spiritualise this new-age movement as much as they can(like Yogananda) by taking part in it and mixing with Vedic culture.

The negative approach of destorying Abrahamic religions is not going to work. This will only alienate people. All religions are finding it hard to resist the new-age religious movement, because new-age religion is made out of many religions, many traditions. They are only one, and new-age is all of them. This gives new-age religion more currency amongst the current generation. As soon as somebody goes around talking about one religion, hey presto, you’ve alienated everybody and lost your audience.

Whatever meets your aim of establishing dharma on this planet use it, even if it means accepting new-age teachings like Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna and Buddha are all masters and avatars, Yoga science is an ageless wisdom that humanity once practiced. Go with the flow and allow dharma to come back.[/QUOTE]

When I say “destroying Abrahamic religions,” I mean it in the sense of organized religion. Christianity and Islam as organized religions are far too dogmatic, intolerant, oppressive, illogical, and paradoxical to do any sort of mixing with any other religion.

It is not possible to mix these religions with Dharmic ones. The result will be chaos.

Now if you are referring to “taking the best of any religion” as “taking the valid, non-doctrinal, and universally applicable and palpable parts and creating an amalgam,” then that just might work. However, this isn’t the right time to do it. There needs to be enough dissension within the Abrahamics, enough sectionalism and strife, for that to succeed. Most Christians in the world today are far too doctrinal/dogmatic to start accepting Vedic additions.

And that is exactly what is happening. It has been happening for the last century ever since Hindu gurus arrived in the West. The West is now increasingly becoming more Hindu.

You think too much like a nationalist. I don’t blame you are still young. I am thinking like a globalist. And globalization is a fact of our times. You either join the flow and enrichen it, or get left behind. Even Churches have been forced to go with the flow.

Your a soul at the end of the day, you don’t have a planet, a country, a race.
Your purpose is to develop spiritually and while you do that develop the rest of your souls on this planet. See the others as souls, rather than x nationality, y race, z creed. Forgive as much as you can, take as much abuse as you can, and when it is goes to the limit, then exercise violence. This is the example lord Krishna and lord Rama set. Paitence and resilence are time honoured Hindu qualities.

You are too quick to violence, condemnation and abuse. This is not ahimsa. This is no different to how a Muslim behaves.

There are still peaceful ways to end the problems of persecution of Hindus in India. Until they are not exhausted, do not think of violence.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53774]And that is exactly what is happening. It has been happening for the last century ever since Hindu gurus arrived in the West. The West is now increasingly becoming more Hindu.

You think too much like a nationalist. I don’t blame you are still young. I am thinking like a globalist. And globalization is a fact of our times. You either join the flow and enrichen it, or get left behind. Even Churches have been forced to go with the flow.

Your a soul at the end of the day, you don’t have a planet, a country, a race.
Your purpose is to develop spiritually and while you do that develop the rest of your souls on this planet. See the others as souls, rather than x nationality, y race, z creed. Forgive as much as you can, take as much abuse as you can, and when it is goes to the limit, then exercise violence. This is the example lord Krishna and lord Rama set. Paitence and resilence are time honoured Hindu qualities.

You are too quick to violence, condemnation and abuse. This is not ahimsa. This is no different to how a Muslim behaves.

There are still peaceful ways to end the problems of persecution of Hindus in India. Until they are not exhausted, do not think of violence.[/QUOTE]

I will respond later. My teachers have been shoving quizzes and tests down our throats this entire week before Spring Break…

Many? More like MOST Christians. And they do not interpret their doctrines in such a manner.

I know they don’t. and your right. It is most. But we can also find the same sort of literal interpretation or fundamentalism, if you will, pervade every other religious system and it’s scripture.

Why should they when the verses to go out and convert and subjugate heathens and their idol-culture are right in front of their eyes?

The Christian tradition, as we have known it for 2k years, does not and should not stand. At the very least, it should be reformed. Massively. However, I have come to see that such a thing is not possible when the West is at the pinnacle of its superiority. They derive their strength and confidence from their material prosperity and its resultant arrogance. Once it falls, then they will hopefully realize the error of their ways (or just go back to the Christianity characteristic of the Dark Ages).

As people develop and grow they will eventually become disenchanted, or perhaps not totally satisfied with what the common interpretions of thier books are telling them. I’ve seen this myself. A devout christian troubled by the incongruities weird flowerly language found in his book. They will begin, as a matter of course and when appropriate, to naturally look into - and study other spiritual systems. This cross pollination if you will should be encouraged! For it is within the books of the others that they may eventually find the keys that begin to unlock the subtler meanings hidden within thier own book. Perhaps.

Also even though yoga is in the west primarily seen as health and fitness - even if the westerner only practices the asanas in their various forms they may come to a place of dissatisfaction with simple asana and begin to look deeper into the other branches of the disciple and art. As kind of a spring board if you will.

The turning about must come naturaly. This can be encouraged and should be encouraged.

[QUOTE=The Scales;53845]Many? More like MOST Christians. And they do not interpret their doctrines in such a manner.

I know they don’t. and your right. It is most. But we can also find the same sort of literal interpretation or fundamentalism, if you will, pervade every other religious system and it’s scripture.

Why should they when the verses to go out and convert and subjugate heathens and their idol-culture are right in front of their eyes?

The Christian tradition, as we have known it for 2k years, does not and should not stand. At the very least, it should be reformed. Massively. However, I have come to see that such a thing is not possible when the West is at the pinnacle of its superiority. They derive their strength and confidence from their material prosperity and its resultant arrogance. Once it falls, then they will hopefully realize the error of their ways (or just go back to the Christianity characteristic of the Dark Ages).

As people develop and grow they will eventually become disenchanted, or perhaps not totally satisfied with what the common interpretions of thier books are telling them. I’ve seen this myself. A devout christian troubled by the incongruities weird flowerly language found in his book. They will begin, as a matter of course and when appropriate, to naturally look into - and study other spiritual systems. This cross pollination if you will should be encouraged! For it is within the books of the others that they may eventually find the keys that begin to unlock the subtler meanings hidden within thier own book. Perhaps.

Also even though yoga is in the west primarily seen as health and fitness - even if the westerner only practices the asanas in their various forms they may come to a place of dissatisfaction with simple asana and begin to look deeper into the other branches of the disciple and art. As kind of a spring board if you will.

The turning about must come naturaly. This can be encouraged and should be encouraged.
[/QUOTE]

I will respond in time. As of now, I really need to study this confusing Chemistry stuff.

[QUOTE=The Scales;53845]
As people develop and grow they will eventually become disenchanted, or perhaps not totally satisfied with what the common interpretions of thier books are telling them. I’ve seen this myself. A devout christian troubled by the incongruities weird flowerly language found in his book. They will begin, as a matter of course and when appropriate, to naturally look into - and study other spiritual systems. This cross pollination if you will should be encouraged! For it is within the books of the others that they may eventually find the keys that begin to unlock the subtler meanings hidden within thier own book. Perhaps.

Also even though yoga is in the west primarily seen as health and fitness - even if the westerner only practices the asanas in their various forms they may come to a place of dissatisfaction with simple asana and begin to look deeper into the other branches of the disciple and art. As kind of a spring board if you will.

The turning about must come naturaly. This can be encouraged and should be encouraged.
[/QUOTE]why is this realization only limited to christianity or the “abrahamic religions” as people here describe it? whether a person becomes disenchanted with his religious teachings has little to do with any type of development and more to do with personality as well as what resonates within a person naturally. as long as i can remember i’ve always had problems with the christian doctrines/teaching and i’d hardly call myself more spiritually “developed” than anyone else (who gets to decide this stuff anyway??). certain things must “resonate” within a person for them to follow that faith/religion; this is something we can’t control.

[QUOTE=vata07;53856]why is this realization only limited to christianity or the “abrahamic religions” as people here describe it? whether a person becomes disenchanted with his religious teachings has little to do with any type of development and more to do with personality as well as what resonates within a person naturally. as long as i can remember i’ve always had problems with the christian doctrines/teaching and i’d hardly call myself more spiritually “developed” than anyone else (who gets to decide this stuff anyway??). certain things must “resonate” within a person for them to follow that faith/religion; this is something we can’t control.[/QUOTE]

You completely misinterpreted his post and the posts that others have been posting since the creation of this forum.

why is this realization only limited to christianity or the “abrahamic religions” as people here describe it?

I didn’t think I was limiting anything to just christianity or the 'abrahamic religons.

whether a person becomes disenchanted with his religious teachings has little to do with any type of development and more to do with personality as well as what resonates within a person naturally.

I find ‘personality’ to be developed over time.

as long as i can remember i’ve always had problems with the christian doctrines/teaching and i’d hardly call myself more spiritually “developed” than anyone else (who gets to decide this stuff anyway??).

it is not a matter of spiritual development perse as in the religious sense - simply natural growth over time due to experience provided by nature i.e. - “Spiritual growth” or learning if you will.

certain things must “resonate” within a person for them to follow that faith/religion; this is something we can’t control.

who you are right now is because of the past and your own volitional actiivity. This past stretches back quite a ways…

Well, because the Abrahamic religions are the ones holding onto intolerant views. When was the last time a Dharmic religion waged a crusade or a Jihad?

Wait, did Vata mean “Why is spiritual realization an exception in Christianity and Islam?” His diction was confuzzling.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;54180]Wait, did Vata mean “Why is spiritual realization an exception in Christianity and Islam?” His diction was confuzzling.[/QUOTE]no, i’m pretty sure your diction was more confuzzling than mine,:p.

the original post by scales states that once a christian becomes more developed spiritually, they will soon become disenchanted with their religion and seek another path. i asked, “why is becoming disenchanted only limited to christians?” why not a buddhist? why not anyone from an eastern religion? etc.

you also have to ask, “why is islam the fastest growing religion in the world?”

If you are a true Hindu or Buddhist, you would never leave these religions for Christianity or Islam. That would be like leaving Harvard to go to community college :wink:

why is islam the fastest growing religion in the world?

Because they breed faster than everybody else.

[QUOTE=vata07;54190]no, i’m pretty sure your diction was more confuzzling than mine,:p.

the original post by scales states that once a christian becomes more developed spiritually, they will soon become disenchanted with their religion and seek another path. i asked, “why is becoming disenchanted only limited to christians?” why not a buddhist? why not anyone from an eastern religion? etc.

you also have to ask, “why is islam the fastest growing religion in the world?”[/QUOTE]

No, your diction was horrible. :stuck_out_tongue:

BECOMING disenchanted is limited to Christians and Muslims because their religions are dogmatic and sanctions racism, ignorance (albeit indirectly), violence, and so forth. These are the “adharmic” religions. Why? For reasons extensively posited through the entirety of this particular forum.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world due to birth-rates (and ignorance on part of the converter/acceptor).

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54192]If you are a true Hindu or Buddhist, you would never leave these religions for Christianity or Islam. That would be like leaving Harvard to go to community college :wink:

Because they breed faster than everybody else.[/QUOTE]
well…i wasn’t implying they’d leave for christianity,:p. why not leave and follow NO religion?

i’m not convinced you guys know as much as you think you do about christianity. christianity has undergone such an evolution over the years and has so much diversity now. from what you’ve described of your experiences with christianity, i know for sure that its not representative of ALL christians. there are no crusades in this day and age, :p, (only the radical christians try to “convert” and again that’s not representative). and the average christian you meet is every bit as tolerant as you claim to be…at least in the west.

It is impossible to follow no religion. Everybody has to choose a religion either consciously or unconsciously. That is because everybody has to form a viewpoint on life and reality.

Christianity is more tolerant today than it was in the past, this is true. It also divided into hundreds of sects which has weakened its authority and power. In India, however, the matter is different, Christianity continues to be a menace in Indian society. Massive church organizations actively support mass conversion activity and spread anti-Hindu propoganda.

There are still many things that remain unresolved in the West which were Christian attacks on Hinduism. Such as restoring Hindu history and acknowleding its heritage. The first gesture of peace from the West would be to publically discredit the Aryan invasion theory, restore the dates of Hindu history and admit that it was an indigenious, dynamic and unbroken civilisation going back 10,000 years ago to the beginning of the Indus valley. This needs to be taught in every textbook. And the contributions of Hindus in science, medicine, engineering, philosophy have to be acknowledged.

The economic genocide of the Hindus has to be admitted in history books by the British and problems like caste system, dowry and wife burning need to explained in their proper socio-historical context.

Until this does not happen we cannot say that changes are taking place.

[QUOTE=vata07;54190]no, i’m pretty sure your diction was more confuzzling than mine,:p.

[B][B]the original post by scales states that once a christian becomes more developed spiritually, they will soon become disenchanted with their religion and seek another path.[/B] i asked, “why is becoming disenchanted only limited to christians?” why not a buddhist? why not anyone from an eastern religion? etc.

you also have to ask, “why is islam the fastest growing religion in the world?”[/B][/QUOTE]

Within the context of the whole conversation [B]The[/B] Scales did not state such a thing.
:cool:

[QUOTE=The Scales;54208]Within the context of the whole conversation [B]The[/B] Scales did not state such a thing.
:cool:[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I was trying to make vata see this point but he refuses to do so…

[QUOTE=vata07;54205]well…i wasn’t implying they’d leave for christianity,:p. why not leave and follow NO religion?

i’m not convinced you guys know as much as you think you do about christianity. christianity has undergone such an evolution over the years and has so much diversity now. from what you’ve described of your experiences with christianity, i know for sure that its not representative of ALL christians. there are no crusades in this day and age, :p, (only the radical christians try to “convert” and again that’s not representative). and the average christian you meet is every bit as tolerant as you claim to be…at least in the west.[/QUOTE]

It has indeed evolved; superficially. Most Christians still retain their Western/white/religious supremacist biases. I live in the “Bible belt” part of the United States, which is a more PC way of saying “white supremacist and intolerant.”

The Christians/Muslims you are thinking of are not Christians but rather people who are SOOOOO liberal with Christianity/Islam that they can’t even be considered Christians/Muslims anymore. I know SEVERAL of them in RL and they, most of the time, consider themselves more agnostic than Christian/Muslims.

All Christians, the true/practicing ones at least, are fundamentalist and supremacist. Even those who attempt to maintain a semblance of balance between Christianity and other religions, like the poster “Thomas” for example (who practices Yoga and etc), still retain such biases. Once, he intimated that Christianity was still the ultimate reality and the best path. He even tried to defend WHY he should think Christianity is superior. He started several threads in which he expressed fear about going “too far” into Yoga (paraphrased) for fear of astral projections/etc being “ungodly” things. He said reincarnation was blind faith (whereas believing in a non-existent man who was born of a VIRGIN, talking snakes, etc is supposedly not). That is the sad reality of Christianity.