Role of positive thinking in yoga

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;52834]“Because you write about this state of “direct seeing” as something superior to “normal” state.”

I do not know what you mean by “normal”, but if we are to use the word, I would say that what is “normal” is just what one ordinarily experiences. For one person, to live out of consciousness may be normal. For another, to live out of unconsciousness may be “normal” for him. What is “normal” is just the common standards which one abides by.

It is not that a meditative awareness is “superior” to any other state. It is simply a matter of cause and effect. Certain states of being trigger more and more suffering. Certain states of being liberate you from suffering. And that is all that one is seeking in life - whether one is aware of it or unaware of it - one is simply seeking happiness and freedom. But for most, because one’s attention and energy has not been moving in the right direction - most people are seeking outwardly for their own freedom, not realizing that it is one’s state of consciousness from moment to moment which determines one’s experience, not the outer world. At the most, the world can only give you information. What the mind does with this information is entirely one’s own doing. And because life is always in a state of unceasing change, if one is dependent upon the outside world, then it cannot provide anything more than temporary satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

I think I get what you mean. But should I seek distractions in life or practice meditative awareness?

#22

[QUOTE=Callia;52840]It is a little difficult to comprehend your question.

What i do understand that you are trying to say that we can influence our body my conditioning our mind. Which I support. Our mind has super control over the rest of the body.

yes Yoga is a very powerful tool to get a grip over your brain, but it is possible only after a lot of years and dedicated effort in trying to achieve.

from
team member
yogaexpertsonline[/QUOTE]

Sorry, its quite difficult for me to express it. But the bottom of the question is that:

Should I have free and open mind (performing experiment) while practicing yoga or should I try to develop confidence that its effectiveness (before seeing results).

If a belief in effectiveness of practice (sort of confidence) plays a role (as some teachers say encouraging to have confidence in practice) then I should avoid doubt. And if I avoid doubt then I don’t have free and open mind.

#23

“But should I seek distractions in life or practice meditative awareness?”

At present, do not try to change anything. Do whatever you are already doing, but with awareness. Out of this, there is a possibility of other things blossoming.

#24

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;52947]“But should I seek distractions in life or practice meditative awareness?”

At present, do not try to change anything. Do whatever you are already doing, but with awareness. Out of this, there is a possibility of other things blossoming.[/QUOTE]

So is “doing whatever I’m doing with awareness” better than “doing whatever I’m doing without awareness”? Sorry for asking such questions but I want to understand what you mean by being beyond judgement (as attitude of the mind). I tend to see it as intellectual idea rather than something that is really experienced and forms real attitude. Because in everyday we are constantly presented with choices and in our freedom we make decisions based on our judgement what is better (usually). Even someone who thinks its better not to judge is performing a judgement (valuing avoidance of judgement over judgement) thinking that this attitude will be better for us and world around us. So I don’t understand how can one be beyond such natural and integral part of us as tendency to judge-value things.

#25

"So is “doing whatever I’m doing with awareness” better than “doing whatever I’m doing without awareness”? "

No, it is not better. It is just a scientific situation, a cause and effect phenomenon. The second triggers more suffering. If you are interested in your own well being, then to come to more awareness of oneself is absolutely necessary.

"but I want to understand what you mean by being beyond judgement (as attitude of the mind). "

It means the same thing which we have been speaking of - to experience without clinging to whatever may arise in one’s experience. If you do not like that word, you can replace it with any other word you find more suitable - it comes to the same - to come to more awareness. The moment anything, whether it is anger, or fear, or just about any mental state, enters into the light of your awareness, a certain alchemy happens. You can remain a witness without becoming identified with the activity of the mind. Out of this, there is a certain freedom that arises, a certain clarity. Because the nature of the mind is such, that the moment you become identified with anything, it blinds your vision, you cannot see anything else beyind it.

“Because in everyday we are constantly presented with choices and in our freedom we make decisions based on our judgement what is better”

If one is to function effectively in this world, what is needed is a certain quality of clarity at the level of the mind. Clarity is such, that it requires an awareness which is capable of seeing things beyond the likes and dislikes of the mind.

“So I don’t understand how can one be beyond such natural and integral part of us as tendency to judge-value things.”

There are many things which may seem to be natural to oneself simply because it is out of the force of habit. And to live out of the force of habit is very different than living in tune with one’s own nature.

Otherwise, man has not began even to explore the possibilities of his own being - and that which he is aware of regarding his own being is just scratching the surface of the phenomenon. The problem is that most people act in the world, but in action, they become entangled. It is not because of the actions themselves, but the state of awareness which is flowing through one’s actions. And all I am saying is that there is a way beyond this, where it is possible to remain intensely active in the world and yet absolutely liberated.

#26

Thanks Amir for explanations. Its more clear now. There is some confusion in meaning of words you are using. For example:

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;52994]No, it is not better. It is just a scientific situation, a cause and effect phenomenon. The second triggers more suffering. If you are interested in your own well being, then to come to more awareness of oneself is absolutely necessary.[/QUOTE]

In what you wrote you performed sort of judgement. There is aim (wellbeing) and you assessed situation whether it will lead there or not. So you are judging the situation and provide recommendation of the best way to proceed if wellbeing is the case. Its not a scientific fact because you don’t know the circumstances - maybe in some cases greater awareness would lead to greater suffering (as far as I know there was no study to prove that so you rely on your experience and authority of ones who lived before you).

#27

Pawel,

“There is aim (wellbeing) and you assessed situation whether it will lead there or not. So you are judging the situation and provide recommendation of the best way to proceed if wellbeing is the case.”

As had been said before, if you don’t like the words “judgement”, replace it with any other word. That is not the point. If one becomes far too interested in finding the right words, then it simply becomes a game of language, which can be bent and distorted in a thousand and one different ways. Fundamentally - once you can experience the mind without clinging to whatever may arise in one’s experience, then there comes a certain freedom. And that is what meditation is.

“Its not a scientific fact because you don’t know the circumstances”

A program is such, that while it may express itself differently in different ways, it’s basic mechanisms are the same. The same is the case with man’s system. The mind and body is a by product of thousands of years of evolution. And while different minds and bodies may express themselves differently, all minds and bodies work according to the same mechanisms. That is why, to truly come to know yourself, through and through, is not different than a direct encounter with the mind of the whole humanity. That is how it has been possible to assist others along the Path.

Suffering is not accidental. It has root causes. And just as suffering has it’s root causes, if you dissolve those root causes, liberation happens as a consequence. My intention is not to tell you what to do or what not to do. If you are interested, you should inquire into yourself and find out what it is that you are seeking in this life, knowingly or unknowingly.

“maybe in some cases greater awareness would lead to greater suffering”

It may, and it often does if you receive something which you are not yet ready to receive. But when we talk about coming to more awareness, we are not talking about something intellectual, or gathering more information. We are speaking of coming into contact with other dimensions of consciousness as a living experience. It has to do with being, not with knowledge.

“as far as I know there was no study to prove”

That is not needed.

#28

Hmm and I was starting to buy into that whole Buddhist thing; ?the causes of suffering are desire and ignorance?

#29

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;53059]Pawel,

“There is aim (wellbeing) and you assessed situation whether it will lead there or not. So you are judging the situation and provide recommendation of the best way to proceed if wellbeing is the case.”

As had been said before, if you don’t like the words “judgement”, replace it with any other word. That is not the point. If one becomes far too interested in finding the right words, then it simply becomes a game of language, which can be bent and distorted in a thousand and one different ways. Fundamentally - once you can experience the mind without clinging to whatever may arise in one’s experience, then there comes a certain freedom. And that is what meditation is.

“Its not a scientific fact because you don’t know the circumstances”

A program is such, that while it may express itself differently in different ways, it’s basic mechanisms are the same. The same is the case with man’s system. The mind and body is a by product of thousands of years of evolution. And while different minds and bodies may express themselves differently, all minds and bodies work according to the same mechanisms. That is why, to truly come to know yourself, through and through, is not different than a direct encounter with the mind of the whole humanity. That is how it has been possible to assist others along the Path.

Suffering is not accidental. It has root causes. And just as suffering has it’s root causes, if you dissolve those root causes, liberation happens as a consequence. My intention is not to tell you what to do or what not to do. If you are interested, you should inquire into yourself and find out what it is that you are seeking in this life, knowingly or unknowingly.

“maybe in some cases greater awareness would lead to greater suffering”

It may, and it often does if you receive something which you are not yet ready to receive. But when we talk about coming to more awareness, we are not talking about something intellectual, or gathering more information. We are speaking of coming into contact with other dimensions of consciousness as a living experience. It has to do with being, not with knowledge.

“as far as I know there was no study to prove”

That is not needed.[/QUOTE]

Hi Amir,
The last sentence gave me a lot to think about. I have a feeling that you want to show relativeness of my knowledge and suggest that my attitude comes just from my mind. But you are not using the same approach toward yourself. You seem to be beyond need of proof and not applying the same approach to knowledge you are presenting. Because you are presenting knowledge based on your experience and what you learned from others. No less, no more. People for ages are complaining that its impossible to explain “higher experiences” in words and I think you and me are no exception.

I guess what you write would be more clear if you would express also limitation of your knowledge and experience and share your life and spiritual journey. It would be for me much easier to relate and understand it (I find examples from real life to be the most interesting things people say).

#30

Pawel,

“have a feeling that you want to show relativeness of my knowledge and suggest that my attitude comes just from my mind. But you are not using the same approach toward yourself.”

My descriptions are also a far cry away from the reality.

“You seem to be beyond need of proof and not applying the same approach to knowledge you are presenting.”

If one wants to look deeper into it, evidence is absolutely necessary. But if one wants evidence, then one will have to practice meditation, there is no other way. In the yogic sciences, the “evidence” does not come in the form of written theses or doctrines. Because it has everything to with your own consciousness, with your own being. And to know oneself, what is needed is not theories or hypothesis, but a method to inquire.

#31

ray, : )

"I was starting to buy into that whole Buddhist thing; “the causes of suffering are desire and ignorance”

Gautama Buddha was just trying to create a ladder.

#32

When the thinking and questioning becomes cumbersome in my head I usually rationalize yoga is more about emptying the mind than filling it with conceptual nonsense

#33

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;53158]When the thinking and questioning becomes cumbersome in my head I usually rationalize yoga is more about emptying the mind than filling it with conceptual nonsense[/QUOTE]

Yoga is about what Zen calls “No mind”. No thoughts-only pure awareness.