Romantic love ... and brahmacharya ... and a lot of questions

Spirituality
#1

Am I right in saying that when you fall in love, it is much easier to practice continence ? because you so much want to be with the desired person that no other temptation can arouse you … and even the person you fell in love with does not arouse you the way other women used to do you ? You just want to be with the other person and while this desire may have physical roots, it is really something else, much more.

You wonder why do I ask this. I fell in love, but I was in the situation that it was impossible to follow this feeling. Being comitted to another person, who I really love and respect, after the shock that such thing could happen, I did everything to conquer the feeling, this state of madness when poetry just flows from your lips, your mind is totally shut out, and you feel this extatic one-ness with the world. Luckily (but we know there is no thing as luck) I found about Rumi, the sufi mystic poet, and I realised that this sensation of bliss, this love is not damned. It just needs conversion to another target … and I’ve been working on it since 5 months, with relative success. But for this I had to reconsider everything about life. Basically, I had to make God or the Ultimate Reality the center point of my life. I am ashamed using His name in a public conversation … and also I have to face my former self every day, my old mistakes and the results of my former life.

Now I have this interest for the dynamics of romantic love. Because I have felt it’s power … several times, I passed already through a divorce, what was one of the reasons I raised myself the question : does it worth to hurt somone so bad just so you can be happy ? And I found that you can’t do this forever. It is inadmissible. But it is beatiful and It has tremendous power to change people. As it changed me … and of course the Grace of God, or call it good karma (in a way all karma is good - it depends just if you accept it or not)
I read somewhere that most of us in western societies live in a world where there is so few sacred things, that Gods only chance reaching us is by romantic love. He puts us on trial …
Anyway, the question was: is brahmacharya or continence “granted” by romantic love the reason for the extatic states ( and also paranormal things like when you feel the presence of your beloved before she enters ), and if It is so, Is that a real sublimation of sexual energies ? I feel it is so … but this raises so many other questions.

So, all this probably is confusing. It ceirtanly is for me. But can such strong emotions and experiences not be mystical ?

If anyone would care to comment this. Anything, even harsh cryticism is welcome. Truth is more important than anything. I am not hoping to find it on these boards … but a little feedback would probably help.

#2

Hello Hubert.

I’m not sure I could agree with these concepts you are sharing. The cravings, the physical cravings are from the root chakra, from the pelvic forces. This includes sexual cravings.

In our society it seems there’s a lot of misconception, misperception or just general confusion about intimate relating. We can’t be too surprised considering the lanscape we’ve created in that society.

What I can tell you is this. When we are connected to our own heart center, our own soul, our authentic self, we are whole. When two fo these whole beings come together there is a greater product at the soul level. You can see from this very paragraph there’s a lot required of us BEFORE we meet our divine life partner (and no I do not think there’s just one). And then the work of finding another whos’ done the work. Now this isn’t to say we don’t bring issues. I’m not so naive. But when we are deeply connected to that nadi, that pillar of light, great things are possible.

I don’t think the romantic version of love, falling in love, and effusing prose is the same realm I am speaking of. I think these things are something but I’m not sure they are of the higher self. And this need to be with a person all the time, non-stop, frequently, to me shows a gap or hole in the self. An incompletedness, if you will. And this isn’t a bad thing per se as many of us are this way.

Of course from a yogic perspective it is not appropriate to divert one’s sexual energies away from their partner. Brahmacharya, by some interpretations, is wise use of sexual eneriges rather than chastity.
So I would say a yogi who finds craving would work to come out of the pelvic foces, work to center the pelvic forces and draw them up to the heart center.

#3

Thank you for the answer !

Obviously, you are right.

Of course, my post was confusing. I did not mention that my life partner (wife, actually) was in her late pregnancy, and now we have a three weeks old baby girl, so my chastity did not really “hurt” her. And of course caressing and other intimacy does happen all the time, because … well she’s my mate, my partner, we’ve been togheter for 7 years.
I did realise that romantic love was very physical. Of course I felt vibrations and activity on areas where chakras are. Mostly the root, sometimes the heart or the throat. Still, I realise they were just “partially charged”.
I am not trying to justify my love for that another person - love what after all this time, I did manage to “control” by unfocusing my mind, and I would call myself free, if I shoul’d not meet her every day - office- … and I know I could lose my focus again. That’s one reason I am trying to know myself, the things what work in me, so I can never have to pass such a painful experience again.

So thanks again helping me clarify things. Chakras are there. They are just not fully blown. We could not live without them. Experiencing them does not mean we have them balanced or “open” or awake. Some parts of them are, others are still undeveloped.

#4

It’s a difficult situation and who among us are really in any place to say, one way or the other. I have yet to meet (or be) the person unafilicted. And yet it’s not affliction really but just another set of experiences for us to deal with.

The quesation will always be was this thing something of your mind/pelvis or was it something of the heart. And only through a heart meditation will that be revealed and only to practitioner, not the world at large.

#5

I forgot to mention that I never really consumed my love with that other person … the longing, the craving was what caused tremendous pain. From the outside I was just like I used to be, both at home and the office. On the inside it was a terrible struggle. I knew I could never hurt my wife, and leave her. I felt love for her even while being in love with another. So the new feeling had to go. But it was … a terrible fight. And it is not totally over yet. But it is much easier, through yoga.

PS. This experience also opened my eyes. People I barely know, started to confess me their similar experiences - without me even giving a hint that I am passing through the same. At first I’ve been disgusted. About my divorce (this wife is second) - I never made a double game. I fell in love, I divorced at once. Now I see, cheating is not that rare as I thought. In fact, is very common. And I can’t feel sad about it - I am not judjing anymore, but I am sad. It shows we are much more helpless than we think we are. Why is it a custom to hide pain ? Why do we play the succesful when, in fact, we are losers ?

#6

Dear Hubert

How courageous of you to share such a vulnerable experience.
I think it is beautiful that you want to look at the truth, that can be very challenging at times. First feeling that arises within me is that expressing what you feel, without harming anybody, is mostly important to set you free.
It has relaxed me so much in life, knowing that expressing and guiding naturally all emotions into a state of being that is beneficial, truthfull, freeing, helped me brake free from old believe systems in which I was learned to control my needs/emotions.
By allowing myself to have pain for loss, crying about it, holding my heart with love, accepting that this was what it was, sitting in it, not wanting to give it any direction, meditating, I slowly moved towards a silent place beyond the pain. I just kept on grieving till it changed into silence.

My life experience has learned me that hiding from pain, will not make it go away

Great learning last years have been about the tantric path as Mukunda is sharing on his own website for those who are interested. It made me experience total freedom within, not feeling the need of any fullfillment from outside. It made me glow and feel very much “woman”, strong within and vulnerable, silent and soft, juicy and happy. My heart wide open, tears flowing from my eyes, naturally feeling fullfillment on all levels, physically, emotionally, spiritually.
Hope my sharing helps you
Namaste Monique

#7

Thanks for the kind words. And about expressing emotions … you are right. It really helps a lot. But first I had to pass through a lot of pain, in order to find some peace, than it was easier to share. I hope one day I will be able to share this with my wife, as a person I should not hide things from. I know she would understand, but I am sure it would hurt her. She would have to pass through pain so she can fully understand, it would also shake most things she took for granted. So far the reason not telling all these to her was that she was in her late pregnancy … and now she is a mother with a very little baby. Ahimsa versus Satya. The first should win, always.

Important is the fact that I almost lost her, made me love her even more. Also I feel much more free in this marriage. I see now, that I could end it any minute. But, because I love them (wife and baby), I don’t do that. Not because I am married. Because the love I feel, as e free act.

#8

And I continue my inquiry on this delicate matter.
You know, the scriptures, the holy books … are so glorious, but in a way, radical. And they are rightly so. The ultimate end cannot be reached without serious work on yourself, sacrifice and burning devotion. Too often we are driven by hidden desires … and this is not bad. Any passion is useful if it is strong enough. It can take you somewhere. It is impossible to develop a totally desireless state from where we usually are, and what is one determined by so many small passions. Passions are like plants … you water them, you take care of them and they become stronger, bigger. If you water a singele passion, it will grow so big that most other passions will dry out … then the only thing left to deal with is that great passion of your choice.
Romantic love can be such a passion. It naturally makes you focus on a single target. I don’t think romantic love is any different of that of a man who does Japa. Love is love, longing is longing. The target might be different … but than again, what is the difference between an image of God, and an image of your beloved ? They are both just images.
The real difference is in the state of the union. To be united with another human being, and to be united with God, is different, and still, it is not. We too often lose sight of the divine in that other person. If we would only able to reach the depth of knowing another human being to his/her core, we would love him/her forever as we love ourselves. The love of the higher Self is the same for another man’s/woman’s Self … Total union can be just between things of the same essence.
There is a song, saying “love lifts us where we belong”. It is obviously about romantic love. But the love of God is also romantic. In that, we recieve a gift … it is written in us. We do not love with our will. Loving is not done by will. It is a natural act of the soul. Love never tires as will does. And still, we so often get tired in our love for the person we live with. And this is because we are not perfect, we lose sight of the real target of the love we feel. We fall in love with the image, instead of trying to reach deeper and deeper. And when the image becomes too familiar … we just neglect it. Than a new image tempts us … becasue we are only able to love images, insted of the core. The core is the same, always. We have to go far enough towards the other until we find us in them. That’s perfect union. That is love fulfilled.

PS. Is it too much ? There is more. :slight_smile:

I said, love is a natural act of the soul, and does not need an effort on your part. This is partially true. Because, it is natural only when the target is clear, right in the front of your eyes. The target can be veiled though. By lack of focus, lack of attention. If you really can pay attention to someone, you will know him/her. When you really know somone, you will naturally love him/her. Even if he is a criminal or a madman. When you really know such person, you cannot withold compassion. When you understand him/her, how did he/her get there, you might feel great sadness … but this comes from your understanding that, in fact, he is just like you, only in a very bad situation. That’s why holy man or Incarnations of God like Jesus, Buddha and others always talked to the poor, to those in need to the sick, to sinners. Thos people, they are just like us. In fact, they are us, and we are them. When you understand this … you will love all.

As for realationship of man and woman, it is the same. Only that God in his mercy, knowing we are sinners, blind and selfish, gave us this gift of romantic love. Made us men and women. He helps us see and understand another human being, by this means. But this gift is temporary. He lends us His love, because blind as we are, we could never really love a stranger. But this loan is withdrawn slowly, not because He is bad, but for we can begin to learn to love by real love. Real love of understanding, knowing, caring.

#9

You have really hit a point that I believe touches all human kind. We are in constant battle with what is “correct” and what we “want.” I would like to sumbit my thoughts for your prayerful interpretation.My entire life as a woman, I have always felt I was not complete unless I had the affection and/or love of a man. I went my life thinking I was incomplete…always searching…always trying to make someone else (my mate/boyfriend/lover/husband) happy. What I have discovered is very much like some of the above comments–we must be on our own divine path and secure in our relationship with the divine/god etc… Although there is purpose in the expression of love through a relationship, if it becomes an obsession or addiction then it is sure to be out of balance. I could go on about all I have learned about this specific subject and my own failures/successes, but I think the important thing to remember is to work on the relationship with self. It is the one you have as you arrive into this earth and it will be the only one you leave with from this plane of existence.Blessings and peace in your search for truth.

#10

This state of love and yoga is beautifully taught by the love of Radha-krishna.