Seizures in Warrior Pose

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I have been doing hatha yoga since 1988. About a year ago I began having seizures while doing yoga. This only occurs when I do the warrior pose. This is the third pose I do in my routine and the seizures start about 10 minutes later. I simply wait through shaking and gasping for air (about 2 minutes) and then continue with my routine. After the seizure is over, I feel very very good. I cannot really explain this feeling very well. This feeling makes me feel like everything is perfect and I feel extremely calm.

I realize most people would just say stop doing the warrior. However, I really like doing it and I like the feeling I get after the seizure is over.

I started doing yoga to stop my pain from arthritis. I am 65 years old. This works really well and I cannot stop doing yoga without falling back in to really bad arthritic pain. I have no real problem with going through the seizures each time, but my wife reminded me that I might have some sort of pathology going on.

I feel really well. I don’t want to see my doctor because she will just tell me to stop doing yoga. As I said, I do not have the choice to stop because of my arthritis.

I have never had a yoga teacher. My physician of twenty years ago gave me a little pamphlet on doing yoga when I was diagnosed with arthritis. I lost this pamphlet years ago, but my memory is good enough that I continued my routine.

Does someone know something I could do that would stop the seizures without stopping the good feeling that comes after?

Michael

#2

Hello Michael.

You realize this thread you’ve posted in is over a year old right?
So this would get more “play” as a new topic on the board.
Never the less, I’ll reply here as best I can.

The difficult part in responding is that there is no way for me/us to know what you are doing. I say this because you’ve clearly stated that you began with a pamphlet which has since been lost. I simply could not know anything about the process, parameters, or protocols you are enlisting.

In yoga we grow to hear and heed the subtle language of our bodies. Some refer to this as awareness. A yoga practice that does not, over time, heighten the students awareness is likely just gymnastics. There’s nothing wrong with gymnastics, of course, but it is not appropriate for me to call gymnastics “yoga”. So the instructions to listen and stop the pose that is causing your body to convulse (literally) is going to be the best advise from any well trained yoga teacher. Refusing to do so is “your choice” but it goes directly against ahimsa, one of the building blocks of yoga itself.

Even if I were to presume you were doing sound asana, I do not know what poses you are doing preceding Warrior nor do I know if you are doing Virabhadrasana I, II or III. I could presume it is one (1) of course but presumption leads us astray.

If I were to throw a dart in the dark and hit something other than your rear end I’d say you are doing Vira I and tossing your head back either violently or in such a way that you may be folding rather than curving the cervical spine. Again I want to stress this is a Pin the Tail on the Donkey guesstimate.

Such things should be viewed and assessed by a skilled, therapeutically trained, alignment-based yoga teacher, IMHO.

#3

Made into new thread for you.

#4

InnerAthlete

I don’t really know what most of my poses might be. I know that I do not do any violent motions. Everything I do is in slow motion. The poses I do know that I do are the crane, camel, warrior with arms straight out. The other poses I would have to look through pictures of yoga poses to figure out which ones I have been doing. The seizures are certainly a mystery. Like I said, if I skip the warrior, I get no seizures. I also get no really great feeling that I explained. Normally yoga just relaxes me and keeps me from having arthritic pain. This new thing has its ups and downs. If there is no danger in the seizures, I will most certainly continue as I have. That really great feeling I can only describe as a sort of profound calmness. It is too bad our language is not more expressive.

I do not know the meaning of some of the words you used.

Virabhadrasana ahimsa Vira

Thanks again for being so kind as to try to help me with my question,

Michael

#5

Hello Michael,

So you describe Warrior II as the pose in question. If you are doing it as the picture of the Resident of the United States is in the link above then it seems unlikely my guesstimate was at all accurate.

Please try doing the pose with your hands on your hips instead of up, extended, and parallel to the floor.

There is no point in yoga where I would define convulsions as “safe” though I may not, depending on the circumstances, define them as “dangerous”. My concern is that you have not received a diagnosis from the health care practitioner of your choice. That would make things much easier to deal with.

Ahimsa is the first of several yamas which make up the foundations for yoga practice. Student used to be forbidden from practicing asana (postures) until they had learned and employed these precepts. Ahimsa is defined in a variety of ways from simple to complex. For our purposes it is safe to say it is a precept of non-harming. In fact some one say it is a precept of love (the opposite of harming)

Virabhadrasana is the Sanskrit term of Warrior posture. Vira is my shorthand.

#6

Thank You InnerAthlete,

I am reluctant to see my doctor because I would expect her to say “stop doing that”, or worse, think that I was crazy. Yoga is not an acceptable practice in the small community in which I live. The Christian community here believes yoga and other types of meditation are “against Jesus”. So, I am forced to do what keeps me pain free in secret. The picture you sent me is almost exactly how I do that pose except that my hands and fingers our straight out parallel to the floor. I do not have one finger sticking out and a fist in one hand. I found the name of another pose I do, it is the triangle. The warrior and triangle are my favorite poses. They are my favorites because I feel really good doing them.

I will try your idea of putting my hand on my hips. I do not expect this to be easy for me. I have developed a sense of balance for all of my poses with my eyes closed. Any deviation from my normal pose sets off my balance. However, I will try to master doing it this way. I will report back if there is any change in the results.

My physician of 20 years ago was a great guy. He knew how to relieve my suffering from arthritic pain. He did not just give me the pamphlet. He had me do each pose so that I was doing it to his satisfaction, and when I was not, he did it himself to show me how. That is so rare in physicians now.

I do have another question. You certainly do not have to answer if you do not want to. Do you feel this profound calmness part way through your routine? If you do, would you ever give it up?

Many thanks

Michael

#7

Hi Michael,

May I ask you where your seizures start, in other words, where is the origin, for example in the middle of the spine or perhaps in the coccyx? I have a feeling and I am talking under correction here and also not from a medical pov but from a yogic pov, that your seizures might be something different.

#8

I also am interested if these seizures are a medical problem, or an intensive process you’re passing through on your path of spiritual growth. In particular, I am reminded of Krishnamurti. I don’t want to be dangerous in disregarding something that might be symptomatic of a deeper issue. Still, I do think it’s important to understand another perspective on psychological growth phenomena, no matter how irregular. (I have been through some similar phases of intense mental/physical agitation giving way to tremendous peace. I think they can be valuable, but it really would be very advisable to have some support form your community…)
here is an excerpt from the WIkipedia entry detainling Krishnamurti’s episodes, which struck intermittently for about a year, and have become a defining moment in his biography:

"…It was there, in August 1922, that Krishnamurti went through an intense, “life-changing” experience. It has been simultaneously, and invariably, characterised as a spiritual awakening, a psychological transformation, and a physical “conditioning”. Krishnamurti and those around him would refer to it as “the process”, and it continued, at very frequent intervals and varying forms of intensity, until his death. Witnesses recount that it started on the 17th, with extraordinary pain at the nape of Krishnamurti’s neck, and a hard, ball-like swelling. The next couple of days, the symptoms worsened, with increasing pain, extreme physical discomfort and sensitivity, total loss of appetite and occasional delirious ramblings. Then, he seemed to lapse into unconsciousness; actually, he recounted that he was very much aware of his surroundings and while in that state, he had an experience of “mystical union”. The following day the symptoms, and the experience, intensified, climaxing with a sense of “immense peace”.[43]

"...I was supremely happy, for I had seen. Nothing could ever be the same. I have drunk at the clear and pure waters and my thirst was appeased. ...I have seen the Light. I have touched compassion which heals all sorrow and suffering; it is not for myself, but for the world. ...Love in all its glory has intoxicated my heart; my heart can never be closed. I have drunk at the fountain of Joy and eternal Beauty. I am God-intoxicated."

Let’s not get too googly eyed ourselves, I don’t want to hurt anybody and send them off an a delirious mystical quest, but honestly, I have become more wary of needless medical intervention that stunts the process of spiritual growth than the experience of perplexing phenomena that might seem frightening to the outside world, but are silently accepted and understood by the inner self.

I can’t stress enough how important a physical teacher has been to me. I wish you would not be so meek in your practice, and find a way to bridge a gap between two beautiful spiritual traditions (each of which have their own corruptions). Maybe just speaking with people, calling it “exercise” or “stretching” and explaining what it has done for you will get them over their fear of “other”. I understand, as I too have been in Christian communities (well, we’re speaking of certain types of Christian communities, not the larger spiritual tradition) as a yoga practitioner, and chose to minimize its outward exposure.
God bless you, and good luck.
I feel the most important thing is peace with your own Self. If you are doubting and worried about what might be happening, seek any attention you can get. If you feel greta about it, and even, as you say, look forward to it, rest in your own sovereignty over your own life experiences. I really hope I am not sounding ignorant and caustic, but the process of spiritual growth is almost universally understood, in my experience, by western medicine, and in some cases, stunted by it. Good luck, god bless you, may you make your home in that peace.

#9

I’m sorry, I made an error. Krishnamurti’s “episodes” were actually said to have lasted the duration of his life. he was, however, a spiritual giant, and content with these episodes, not to mention the fact that he lived somewhat peacefully until 90 (his death was of pancreatic cancer).

#10

Thank you all for your help.
Pandara,
The seizures start at my midsection at the base of my spine. They very quickly spread outward to my legs and arms. My muscles will be causing my legs and arms to jump all over and my breathing is impaired because of the jumping around of my chest muscles. I do not feel anxious during this because I know it will quickly pass.

Mr. aaronfast,
I must admit there has been something going on with me mentally. I am retired now and have more time to think. When I was young and in the military, I lost many of my friends. I began feeling their presence about a year ago. It is as if I am being followed around by their ghosts. I am not a very religious person.

However, I see flashes of their faces sometimes. This period in my life when I lost my friends, I thought had been put behind me. It appears not. After experiencing the seizures, I feel completely at peace. I feel OK that they died and I lived. But later when this feeling wears off, I am back to what we call normal consciousness. I don’t feel so Ok that they are gone and I am still here.

As I said, I am not on a spiritual quest. My reason for doing yoga was always to avoid pain. I realize from reading some of the posts here that this sounds like kind of a poor reason to do yoga. But, pain can be a powerful motivator.

My reasons now for doing yoga have become more complex. I have become very attached to what InnerAthlete calls euphoria. The anticipation of this euphoria makes my very first pose different from what it ever was. As I do my first pose I immediately feel what I would call an anticipatory calmness and happiness about what is coming. It is almost as if I were watching myself do the pose and approving of the pose and myself. So now I have shared some very personal stuff and I feel a little embarrassed. I would not have the nerve to tell this to someone face to face.

I appreciate the fact that no one has flamed me for doing things wrong or just complaining. I think you guys are really far more into yoga than I can every imagine being. You all seem to have a lot of insight that it is difficult for me to understand sometimes. I am ignorant of the words that are used to describe yoga. I appreciate that you are all taking the time to speak with me about this.

Bless you

Michael

#11

Hi Michael,

What I am baout to explain is just a possibility and you must take it and see if it fits. I shall also endeavour to explain it in simple language without using the yoga or Easterm philosophy terms. Please remember this is just a view and that I am following here my feelings and impressions that I pick-up from you.

I have a feeling that what you might expereince in part is what we call the moving of energy or shakti. You have done yoga and certain asanas over the years over and over and this repitition has created a certain movement of energy in your subtle bodies. Yoga is not just about the physical asanas, but behind it you work with energy and in a way we manipulate this energy to achieve certain states of awareness or to reach certain goals, if this happens without the greater understanding of the philosophic teachings behind yoga, you can end up experiencing certain things and they might be profound spiritual experiences.

The fact that these “seizures” makes you feel good, is for me an indication that you expereince more than just seizures, my grandfather who lived with us had many seizures and I promise yuo he never looked or felt good after them, in fact he looked terrible for weeks and months. Personaly I think through your persistent and constant yoga practice certain energy channels have automatically been purified and your spiritual eenergy which is situated at the base of the spine could start to move around more freely in your body, the only way your body could handle this spiritual energy is by having a “seizure”. I think if you had a good and competent teacher who understood what happened to you, he/she might have guided you into greater understanding.

Anyway, this is my feeling I have here, it might be wrong. About your friends visiting you, I have a feeling that they need your blessings. Just close your eyes next time, try to feel them or visualise them and bless their souls where ever they are and surround them with all your Light, Love, peace and harmony.

I trust this might shed some light for you on this, again please this is no absolute answer as I am going on my feeling here.

#12

Seizures or muscle tremors? Now I feel we need some clarifications please Michael.

I certainly understand the nature of your surrounding community. What is often overlooked is that Jesus was one of the great yoga masters - though I cannot say whether his practice involved asana as we know it today.

There is, as outlined by another poster, the possibility of such experiences being part of the part, a genesis for growth or break through. However, if you are getting such reactions each and every time you are doing the posture (warrior II) then I would assert that reduces the likelihood of such an assessment.

The Resident’s hands in the photo above are not “correct”. The pose is as you state you are doing it.

To answer your question, I find my entire practice to be a profoundly calm. This is the very reason I start my practice with centering - so that I may retain that focus even when my life (or my pose) is turned upside down. While I would not give it up I would also not cling to it. I take what comes in my practice. It would be foolish to believe only bliss would be stirred.

It is not euphoria that is yoga. And euphoria (or profound calmness) is not the only residue of practice. And each of the residues of practice are valid, with none being higher nor lower than the others.

#13

Michael, I agree here with IA and this is something you also need to keep in mind and investigate, especially about the constant recurrance of the “seizures”. The movement of energy might happen one or two times and then it will usually subside.

#14

InnerAthlete,
I have uncontrollable convulsive movements of my body about 10 minutes after the warrior. They are fairly serious. There was a couple of times that the convulsions were preventing my muscles in my chest from breathing. Although I felt the pain in my chest from the lack of air I still felt calm. The little tremors are what I feel for about a half an hour after my routine.

My last pose is called the crane. When I finish that I stay in my room for a while. My wife feels a little disconcerted by what she calls my thousand yard stare when I come right out. My eyes simply don’t focus on anything and I have no desire to focus on anything. I wait until I can focus again on reality. I can speed this up and have done so by thinking of something that irritates me. I sort of pretend to get mad about about it and then I am suddenly back “here”.

I will look up the corpse pose. I will try to do it after the crane. I feel I live in a very calm universe. I do housekeeping chores like anyone else, do some coding, and volunteer at a local hospice. I felt some sort of pull to this kind of work in 1989. Taking care of people, being with them, praying with them as they go to the edge of life is a great privilege. Most of my volunteer work has been in an aids hospice. It is a cruel disease.

It has never occurred to me to somehow move my yoga routine to include the outside world. I can hardly conceive of it. I just go through life like everyone else.

I am glad that your yoga brings you that calmness. It is a real blessing. I noticed that you commented on the idea that some people have of being spiritually high. I have seen how seductive this idea can be. I see so many personalities on tv claiming a direct line to God and of course those who believe this nonsense. I am just a non practicing atheist.

Pandara,

A couple of years ago I started feeling this profound calmness. I started relaxing more and more into that calmness each time because it felt so good. That means that each routine would bring me more pleasure. I realize that from a religious viewpoint that pleasure seeking is unseemly. As I said, I am not very religious. There was a day when I went very very deep into that well of calmness. Suddenly I felt what might physically be described as a burning sensation moving up my body. I instantly sensed that my personalilty, memories, and everything that was “me” was evaporating. I felt rabid fear. I broke out in a cold sweat. Waves of heat and cold started going through me. I pulled myself back from that place. I had tremors for days afterwards. Now I go to that place of calmness but I know that there is a limit to how far I can let myself go. I tell you this because I am trying explain more fully what is going on with me. Yoga for me means great calmness, but also the threat of loss. There is a limit on how much I can enjoy the trip.

If there is a God, maybe he figures I was just having too much of a good thing and needed a kick in the ass. I just can’t conceive of the idea of a God that created a universe as vast as our own and a God that allows His creations to suffer so.

There was also a very significant moment in my routine once that has made a big change in my life. I was in that very calm place and suddenly I saw a person who had tortured me when I was a prisoner. I immediately felt a complete forgiveness of what he did and felt instant love for him. This experience expanded out to all those who had wronged me. It was an extremely liberating moment. To be able to walk around without the slightest resentment for anyone is truly wonderful. This was not an experience I had sought or ever thought of. It was just spontaneous. I wonderful gift.

InnerAthlete,
I do not really understand when you say that you would not give up that calmness but would not cling to either. I mean no disrespect but that sounds a little conflicted.

I freely admit that I like stuff that feels good. Yoga, friends, chocolate, and sex are about as good as life gets. Again, I will look up and do the corpse pose at the end of my routine. Maybe that will get rid of the thousand yard stare and tremors.

I think I agree that if I had a wise yoga teacher, I might have been able to have a smoother trip through my yoga experience. I went to see one teacher once, but she started talking about God and expanding our consciousness and I was really turned off. I just don’t believe any of that stuff. I have seen “gurus” driving a Rolls Royce. Higher consciousness is just another item for sale in the market place.

My wife does not do yoga. She harbors resentment toward those who have hurt her. When she voices these hurts and resentments, I know what this feels like. It is a bad place to be, but I cannot take her from that place. All I can do is love her.

Michael

#15

Thank you for sharing that Michael. I understand.

gordon

#16

Hi Michael,

I think you have received some good pointers here to take you further. Good luck with the path ahead, I think you are actually ok and if the opportunity presents itself to get into contact with a well trained yoga teacher, please use it and see if he/she might be able to assist you further. :slight_smile:

#17

I have uncontrollable convulsive movements of my body about 10 minutes after the warrior. They are fairly serious. There was a couple of times that the convulsions were preventing my muscles in my chest from breathing. Although I felt the pain in my chest from the lack of air I still felt calm. The little tremors are what I feel for about a half an hour after my routine.

I am glad you feel calm but this is a rather serious occurence. While all here are willing to offer you their advice and help they are not with you and able to assess you fully. Please look into seeing someone qualified to help you. Seizures are not a wonderful experience and anything that impacts your breathing needs to be addressed.

#18

Thanks for your concern Alix,

I have seriously thought of seeing a yoga teacher in another town. What comes to me is the she is going to want to see how I do my poses. The thought of someone watching me while I do some of my exercises seems very uncomfortable to me. I have done them alone now for 20 years. Maybe I will be able to work up my courage.

Michael

#19

Michael, I think that is very important. It could be a very simple adjustment you need to make to correct this issue. Also, some of the asanas can be dangerous if not done correctly so a teacher would definitely be a benefit to you. Please do try to overcome your shyness and visit the teacher. It really isn’t as intimidating as it might feel for you at the moment. Remember we all walk the road together.

#20

Hi i came upon this forum because I have recently experienced convulsions after yoga (well more like right after the pose…a similar one to the warrior pose).

It worried me but I came upon this website that might help… though I know this thread is older.

Ok I just realized that I can’t post websites here so I will quote some of what it mentions…though on the website it does go into a deeper explanation

"What is kundalini epilepsy?

Kundalini yoga is a science of self realization by constant physical and mental purification. There are five different types of energy forces working in the body they are prana, apana, samana, vyana and udana. These subtle forces work in a harmonizing and synchronizing way to influence the body, mind, emotions, attitudes and consciousness. When these forces work on a chakra which is not yet open there will be some physical movements in the body called kriyas which purify the physical, mental and casual bodies.
Kundalini epilepsy is presented as an unusual neurological complex or syndrome appearing among some mediations and spiritual techniques.
Sometimes these kriyas in their extreme form may manifest in severe convulsion and seizures misunderstood as pathological epilepsy. These kundalini kriya as seizures are non- epileptic convulsions which are auto- corrector, they not only eliminate physical diseases but also, purify our karmas."