I think, each one has a decision to make with their body and spirit.
There are a million and one relative skillful means towards ones awakening, no single approach is ever absolute. To preserve your sexual energies through celibacy is simply a method. Like all methods, it is just neutral by itself. In certain hands, it can become medicine. In other hands, it can become poison - but by itself - it is just neutral. It is the quality of the mind which determines the nature of any action. There have been tantric approaches which have used not only sexual activity, but have permitted ejaculation. Bhakti yoga is concerned with cultivating love towards the divine as a method towards ones awakening. Dvesha yoga is precisely the opposite - even your hate, if it is channeled with a certain intensity towards the divine, can lead to the breakthrough of your awakening. For certain yogis, any kind of alcohol is forbidden. For a left-handed tantric, they will drink wine in their ceremonies as a method to stimulate the senses. For some yogis, to confront the fear of death they will contemplate upon rotting corpses. Others, will go a step further, enter into a graveyard, sit on a corpse for meditation, surround oneself with as many scenes of death as possible in order to transcend the fear. For Jains, they will hesitate to pick up vegetables which are still rooted in the Earth. Not the case for a Buddhist, the Buddhist is far more flexible. For Mahavira - he lived completely naked as a way of renunciation. For Gautama Buddha, this is not true renunciation - renunciation is not a renunciation of external objects, but a renunciation of the ignorance of the mind. There are yogis who are theists who have become awakened. There are yogis who are atheists who have become awakened. This is why in India - perhaps like no other place on the planet, it has been the case that they have explored into almost every possibility for the expansion of consciousness, almost every attitude and approach which you can imagine has already been exhausted. And that is the very reason why India had thrived in its richness of the spiritual sciences, for thousands of years its soil has given birth to so many realized beings, with different attitude and approaches in the inner exploration of man.
No single method is ever absolute - even celibacy. What is important is not to entertain yourself too much with all of these external aids. The reason for these external aids in the first place was to help create a certain inner environment so that you can start coming to deeper insight into yourself, they were just ways to create an outer situation which can influence the inner. What is essential is self-knowledge, to come to know oneself, through and through. As long as one continues living out of unawareness, as long as one is ignorant about the very fundamentals of who one is, suffering is inevitable. You may be a celibate your whole life, but otherwise remain completely unconscious. Awareness is not something that is determined by celibacy, it is determined by whether you are capable of having an experience of the mind and yet without being a slave to the mind - whether you can remain balanced and integrated, with a certain silence which is unbreakable.
I’ve found that divine love is one way in which source being can manifest, and lust is another. To me, these two ways of manifestations feel quite different and motivate me in different ways. To a significant extent we are what we create, so if we over develop ourselves sexually, it might be harder to manifest as unconditional divine love.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;68710]Yes, there is a connection. You can test it for yourself - when you lose your sexual fluid(I will not use the e-word, in case it is against forum t&c) you will feel your energy levels fall. If you lose a lot too quickly, its becomes even more noticable. When you preserve it for long you will become very active, which will often make you crave sex, but that same energy can be channeled for more useful creative purposes.
I think this fact about sexual fluid is known in the sports sciences and military. For example prior to competing in sports or fighting in battle the competitor/solider is asked to abstain from sex for a while.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are true that this energy helps in channeled for more use full activities, the seminal fluid contains a protein Lecithin, this is the same protein used in the myelination in the brain tissue. Hence if not wasted it could have beneficial effect in the improvement in the increase of ones own capability. I know many people living in the busy city like mumbai and taking the advantage of the process, under the able guidance of Radhanath swami. If you feel you can visit their site as well. celibatemonk.com
[QUOTE=Albert Haust;72351]I’ve found that divine love is one way in which source being can manifest, and lust is another. To me, these two ways of manifestations feel quite different and motivate me in different ways. To a significant extent we are what we create, so if we over develop ourselves sexually, it might be harder to manifest as unconditional divine love.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps source is obscured if one becomes entangled with either extreme.
I haven’t figured it all out yet. I was completely celibate for 2 years and I never overcame my sex drive. I don’t know if it’s possible to do so while incarnated in a body. My spirit guidance helped me have the below experience:
“I was meditating and wondering what it means to be One Self. Suddenly I found myself walking down a city street (nonphysically). I felt very excited and happy because I understood that everything is One Self. I walked up to strangers and hugged them and they hugged me back because they also understood that everything is One Self. I went to hug my mother and we couldn’t experience each other as One Self because we viewed each other according to mother/son concepts. I went to hug a lady I found physically attractive and she too found me attractive and we couldn’t experience each other as One Self because we viewed each other according to man/woman concepts rather than as two divine beings.”
After this experience was over I clearly understood that it “isn’t” our sense of self that keeps us separate, rather self-centered viewpoints do. If it wasn’t for the fact that each of us exists substantially we couldn’t share love and oneness completely with each other because unsubstantial beings couldn’t do such a thing.
I figure that if I walk up to a lady and sexual desire is a part of the reason I do so, I’m not likely to experience her as a divine being to the extent that is possible.
[QUOTE=ray_killeen;72370]Perhaps source is obscured if one becomes entangled with either extreme.[/QUOTE]
I had no idea how powerful sexuality was until I became sexually active. Now, it is easily the most difficult emotion(lust) I have to deal with. Thus I can appreciate what Albert said about it preventing one-ness from taking place. If you start to see people as only potential objects for the gratification of your lust, you undermine their real significance in your life. Living in a Western/modern and highly sexualized cuture obviously encourages the breeding of this emotion.
[QUOTE=Albert Haust;72379]I haven’t figured it all out yet. I was completely celibate for 2 years and I never overcame my sex drive. I don’t know if it’s possible to do so while incarnated in a body. My spirit guidance helped me have the below experience:
“I was meditating and wondering what it means to be One Self. Suddenly I found myself walking down a city street (nonphysically). I felt very excited and happy because I understood that everything is One Self. I walked up to strangers and hugged them and they hugged me back because they also understood that everything is One Self. I went to hug my mother and we couldn’t experience each other as One Self because we viewed each other according to mother/son concepts. I went to hug a lady I found physically attractive and she too found me attractive and we couldn’t experience each other as One Self because we viewed each other according to man/woman concepts rather than as two divine beings.”
After this experience was over I clearly understood that it “isn’t” our sense of self that keeps us separate, rather self-centered viewpoints do. If it wasn’t for the fact that each of us exists substantially we couldn’t share love and oneness completely with each other because unsubstantial beings couldn’t do such a thing.
I figure that if I walk up to a lady and sexual desire is a part of the reason I do so, I’m not likely to experience her as a divine being to the extent that is possible.[/QUOTE]
Experience of trial and error certainly seems to be the most effect route, there was a threshold, which is most likely different for all, unbeknownst to me numerous orgasms a day was not allowing optimum energy to be channeled for spiritual endeavors, abstaining less than a few times a week had the same deleterious effect. It?s simply trial and error; the need to know why does not concern me.
I have also experienced spontaneous occult like phenomenon but it has little interest or use to me.
In many traditions (mysticism, magick, etc.) sexual energy is considered the most basic one, AND the most powerful.
The question “is there a connection between sex and spirituality” begs for defining [U]spirituality[/U]. What is spirituality???
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;68710]Yes, there is a connection. You can test it for yourself - when you lose your sexual fluid(I will not use the e-word, in case it is against forum t&c) you will feel your energy levels fall. If you lose a lot too quickly, its becomes even more noticable. When you preserve it for long you will become very active, which will often make you crave sex, but that same energy can be channeled for more useful creative purposes.
I think this fact about sexual fluid is known in the sports sciences and military. For example prior to competing in sports or fighting in battle the competitor/solider is asked to abstain from sex for a while.[/QUOTE]
Yes, i am in total agreement with you, i am a medico and want to add that there is “lecithin” protein in the seminal fluid which is the same protein in the brain cell and its covering, hence if the same is saved it help in increasing your mental strength. I know some guys in down town mumbai those are following celibacy under the guidance of Radhanath swami. You can also visit their of celibate monk for motivating articles on the subject
The state of mind can feel happy when engaging in a sexual act and if the person/people can maintain this relaxed state of mind then it serves a purpose on the spiritual journey. When you then start thinking about the next time you do it and indulging mentally, desire etc then you are stepping further away from enlightenment. It is very difficult to maintain this relaxed happy state through sex. We always look forward to the next time and the next. This is why celibacy is the better option…IMHO
Yes, this is a good thought, the amount of mental agony created by sexual desire is immense, there can be no peace for a spiritual seeker if he is thinking of sex even at subtle level. People i know celibacy at one aasaram at down town mumbai under the guidance of Radhanath swami are among the most relaxed and at peace people i ever came across. Can visit their site celibatemonk.com
BAHAHA!
urdhvareta
Transformation of Jing into chi. chi in shen.
vajrayana
If you try to tell me, that the root of all life. Has nothing to do with life,your spirit, or soul. well. You might as well say the seed has nothing to do with the tree!!
The point is, nobody understands anything. we thing we know, but we know much less then we think we do!
Reverse the yellow river! By natural means, not forcful. those Vajroli advocates. HA! trying to force it. You cant push water into the clouds!!! The water must beckon to the clouds of its own accord. we simply streangthen this beckoning!
Lust absolutly dissapears. to such a point, that even the desire for a woman dissapears. you could not look at one lustfully if you wanted to. literally.
But not second hand method will put you on the thunderbolt path.
12 years of celibacy is nothing but a fallacy of a method.
The thunderbolt path is called so for a reason.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;68744]There is no such animal like “sexual energy”. Holly scriptures are silent about this.
“Sexual energy” is only in the minds of sick people.[/QUOTE]
Depends on perspective my friend.
There is a certain energy. It resides in the “sexual” place. How will we transform the truth into reality? Only by truth and honesty.
Your ascension is of your concern, my concern, her concern, his concern.
Let us work together.
Ask me a question…
and the holy scriptures are NOT silent about this…neither indian, christian, nor otherwise…
[QUOTE=Avatar186;74050]BAHAHA!
urdhvareta
Transformation of Jing into chi. chi in shen.
vajrayana
If you try to tell me, that the root of all life. Has nothing to do with life,your spirit, or soul. well. You might as well say the seed has nothing to do with the tree!!
The point is, nobody understands anything. we thing we know, but we know much less then we think we do!
Reverse the yellow river! By natural means, not forcful. those Vajroli advocates. HA! trying to force it. You cant push water into the clouds!!! The water must beckon to the clouds of its own accord. we simply streangthen this beckoning!
Lust absolutly dissapears. to such a point, that even the desire for a woman dissapears. you could not look at one lustfully if you wanted to. literally.
But not second hand method will put you on the thunderbolt path.
12 years of celibacy is nothing but a fallacy of a method.
The thunderbolt path is called so for a reason.[/QUOTE]
The point is you . . . don’t understand anything. Because you do not walk in righteousness, nor keep the holy ways, but walk in your own delusions.
How can a man walking in a fog find anything?
He can’t. Don’t throw yourself down even further by disparaging scripture. If your are worthy you will have understanding. That is the promise of God.
After our private talk. What are your thoughts now?
“If you try to tell me, that the root of all life. Has nothing to do with life,your spirit, or soul. well. You might as well say the seed has nothing to do with the tree!!”
That there is anything within you which is called a “soul”, “spirit”, God, or whatever else, is just an assumption. One will have to turn inwards and verify through direct experience. No amount of intellectual speculation will be capable of producing even one drop of seeing into one’s own original nature, if there is even such a thing. All of these words, Atman, Anatman, Buddha-Nature, Shiva, Brahman, Emptiness, by themselves they are just empty words without any substance. Our words can be useful as tools to indicate towards the inexpressible, but they can never grasp the reality. Probably, you are using the word “soul”, “spirit”, simply because you have heard somebody else use such words. If one is a sincere seeker of truth, one will enter into the search for truth assuming nothign at all - a blank slate without any prejudices, with a beginners mind. Otherwise, if you are already hanging onto your conclusions, you are just seeking to confirm them, and the mind is in such a way - that depending on your identifications, it will see whatever it wants to see. One’s imagination, if you are not grounded on the Earth, it has an endless supply of hallucinations. True seeking like this cannot happen.
ha! i completely agree.
I did start out with an empty slate as i started my search at a young age.
when i say soul, i mean " mind and heart"
spirit is a vague term i agree, and usually i would say life force, as to me their is no difference. Although spirit again has been associated with breath in the nostrils and air.
I do again agree that intellectual description is no substitute for experience.
the degree on which an experience can be conveyed depends on our descriptive vocabulary and understanding of the experience itself.
In short. I seek an experience that i was the cause of. This experience has been known to others. so i use the words of others, in order to try and convey meaning better.
This experience is replicable. That is known fact.
But, i have not mastered this particular experience yet. For to master, their must be a rock solid approach/method.
This experience is not rooted in mind, needs no belief, for it is a psycho-physiological experience. In which through the physiology, both mind and body are transmuted into a new state of being.
Yet! this is simply another description! an imperfect description.
I seek the perfection of a particular experience. it is not the only experience. Simply that which i hold above many others. Through perfection of this experience, the identifications are washed away. a truly liberating process. which i have only tasted.
BUT@! simply sharing something personal. unfortunatly i cannot convey a method as of yet, and even if i could, would it be right to give away such a thing freely? guess the answer would be " only if in giving it away freely, it would not cause great discord"
How could your divine birth is possible without so called Sexual energy?
its great to share one’s ideology with the others but why impose ?
[QUOTE=Seeker33;68744]There is no such animal like ?sexual energy?. Holly scriptures are silent about this.
?Sexual energy? is only in the minds of sick people.[/QUOTE]
All things that bond can be used to free.
Sexual center is extremely bonding.
Its connection to the pleasure center of the brain is hardwired.
Yet it can become the greatest freeing agent. It Can also be the greatest destructive agent. If used in the wrong way.