Should Yoga teachers be Vegetarian

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#27

Hi Sunyuting,

Why do yogis have such a problem with eating meat and violence? I dont get it. God made animals for man to eat - read the bible.
maybe, but this is Yoga, so maybe you should read at least the Wikipedia-article to gain some insights to the concept.

God loves violence, he created the UFC.
According to Wikipedia, Nick Williams, Art Davie, Rorion Gracie and Robert Meyrowitz created the UFC; if you have other sources, maybe you should edit the article…

I love violence - its fun.
I agree that it can be fun. Please explain why you think and/or feel it is.

So why all the non love toward meat eaters and violence?
I’d say that it’s non love toward meat eating, that act, you know, not the persons performing it. A significant difference. The people not performing it are seen as immature, naiv, not-understanding, weak and such.

Personally I think that Hatha Yoga as explained by the Yoga Sutra wants to avoid a guilty conscious which would disturb one’s meditation. I had recently explained that viewpoint in detail here. Basically it means that one who is violent will experience some conflict and needs time to process their violent actions to clarify that conflict (like “was it right? What else could I have done? What about the one I hurt?”, etc). That equals movements of the mind, which are unwanted in Hatha Yoga.

But there is also another explanation: Violence causes pain and pain is a signal. A signal tells the receptor of it what they should or should not do. For example will you experience pain when you cut yourself. Cutting yourself is actually the problem, because it will endanger your existence. You might already bleed to death or have the functionality of your body constrained. This is unwanted, so nature invented a wide spectrum of pain to guide creatures through life and tell them where they should be cautious.

Some feelings tell you what’s wrong, some what’s dangerous, some what’s good, some what absolutely necessary. There are obviously positive signals too, like when a food tastes very good. You want to eat it then and naturally, that food would be good for you (unfortunately, taste nowadays is perverted by greedy people to make money, but that’s another story). One of the best positive feelings comes with sex, have a guess why.

Get it so far?

Now: Along with a spiritual practice often comes an awareness that not only no being is an isolated entity, but that all existence is closely related and - in a way - even one single unit. That’s in the bible too, you should focus your studies on the new testament and the teachings of Jesus, who updated the old testamentical “eye for an eye” to “if you get smacked on one cheek, expose the other”.

With such a consciousness, compassion arises. That also is in the bible, when Jesus says something like “what you do to the lowest of my brothers, you do to me”. If you understand yourself as part of a larger unity and the borders between you and other entities fade away, you really feel the pain that others feel. So if you see someone suffering, you don’t think that’s funny, but feel the suffering as your own, you receive the signal that’s telling the other being something is wrong, as your own signal, telling you that something is wrong.

And so you will abstain from hurting other as much as you abstain from hurting yourself, and you will try to reduce or end the suffering of others, as much as you try that with your own suffering.

Makes sense, doesn’t it?

Hi Pandara,

We should be careful not to speak from a place of anger and fear as that does more harm to our Self than actually to others around us.
“we” should also be quite careful what “we” accuse others of. What makes you believe Sunyuting intends to do harm to others around him with his speakings? You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean.

#28

Hi Sunyuting,

If god created everything, then he created the UFC. How about that.
well, since Nick Williams, Art Davie, Rorion Gracie and Robert Meyrowitz created the UFC, god obviously did not create everything.

As far as yoga goes - I got the concept.
Then maybe you wish to lay out what you don’t understand about it. I’ll explain it then. :slight_smile:

Fighting is cheap fun, you dont have to have a bat and ball. Yoga is also a fighting base and so the study is educational.
Many occupations are cheap fun, but I thought you were talking about violence. How is violence a pleasure for you? Is it fun to break stuff? Or faces?

And even Jesus got mad. He flipped out in the temple. I love that story.
Are you mad as hell? Then stick your head out of the window instead of becoming part of what makes you mad. Just a suggestion, though.

#29

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]
Hi Pandara,

“we” should also be quite careful what “we” accuse others of. What makes you believe Sunyuting intends to do harm to others around him with his speakings? You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean.[/quote]

I am really sorry if you perceive this as an accusation, it was and is not intended to be an accusation.

#30

Hi Pandara,

I am really sorry if you perceive this as an accusation, it was and is not intended to be an accusation.
oh, I was wrong! Well have a look:

  • To Sunyuting,

I understand from your other posts that you had a bad experience with two of your yoga teachers and I am truly sorry for that. However, as Tony Tamer (another poster on this Forum) once said, be careful not to cast more shadows of doubt than Light.
But noone is casting shadows of doubt.

I am sure you have learned a lot from this experience and that you can use it to enlighten others in a positive way?
But noone is using their bad experiences to enlighten others in a negatvie way.

We should be careful not to speak from a place of anger and fear
But noone is speaking from a place of anger and fear.

as that does more harm to our Self than actually to others around us.
But noone is trying to harm others around them.

You were just making some contextless smalltalk here, I get it now. Makes sense, since a minute before this contextless little speech you said

Yoga also teach us respect for the paths of others and I think that is important to apply. My partner in life is on a totally different path than mine and neither is better than the other. All paths are equal and no matter how we may judge it, it is always the most appropriate path for the individual.
We think, Pandara, that we have a lot to learn, that we are not even headed in the right direction yet, that we lie to ourselves and others too. I think that we should step away from our vanity and that we should realize and acknowledge who we really are and where we really stand and what we really feel and that we should accept this and work with reality, instead of surpressing ourselves and denying ourselves and pretending to be something more evolved. Because what we are will always sneak through our fassades anyway and it will disgust us away.

Unfortunately, we can’t accept what we are, because we’d think that’d throw us back on our great path of evolution and we really don’t want to start over from the beginning. So we will just see our discerning questions and comments as a momentary disturbance, that we should simply ignore, because we must be walking awesomenesses when we know some stuff about bones and ancient books and how to talk a little pretty. Every now and then we will present ourselves very surpised if we think we suck big time and we will assume that we must be somewhat mislead or sick inside to misjudge us so badly and we will find a few more pretty words to pretend some understanding, tolerance and sympathy of and for and with such spiritual infancy.

All along we will frequently lament how the real Yoga, that we represent, is watered down by us and how sad it makes us, that millions of us are involved with such a wonderful thing Yoga is, but we still make no difference and we still have no impact on society, because all we want is another slice of a lousy pie to cram down our greedy throats to blow up our already overly fat bellies even more.

Oh, how time passes when we’re enjoying ourselves… Now we must go and buy us some chakra-panties, so:

Namaste OM Shanti Hare Rama and a whole lot of loving blessings to us all! :lol:

#31

Q, thanks for all the assumptions about me and we. You are right about it all of course.

#32

My yoga teacher said "you have a life time to become perfect" which my case translates into "I have a life time to become perfect, but time is running out".

There are many valid points in this discussion, however nothing is black and white. I eat largely vegetarian and that is good for the environment as some state that 1/3 of greenhouse emissions are from cattle. However as David has pointed out, I should be looking for locally produced products, so to reduce the energy footprint amongst other benefits.

Yesterday when I was out riding I came upon a Wombat that was dead at the side of the HWY. What should I of done to be a better person?

  1. left it where it was
  2. move it off the roadside into the bush
  3. taken it home and eaten it (assuming it was still fresh)
#33
  1. Bury it under a fruit tree. Yay for organic bone meal (phosphorus).
#34

yoga also teach us respect for the paths of others and I think that is important to apply.

#35

Yes… be vegetarian but not because of ambition to be a yoga teacher…

#36

While Yoga and Buddhism are sepparte entities, they do have a strong intertwining thread. I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that Buddha died by eating bad pork. :rolleyes:

#37

CityMonk, your diagram reminds me of a story my yoga instructor told me. When she was training to become a yoga instructor, she was at a retreat where the food was rather…healthy. When the left they went straight into town and brought burgers and chips (fry’s).

concoulor3, Didn’t know that, you learn something new everyday. I live about 50mtrs from a Buddhist temple. On rubbish night I spotted one of the monks sneaking down the road putting bags of rubbish in other’s wheelie bins LOL. Kinda funny, the poor guy looked so guilty knowing he had been sprung. My bin is usually less than 1/4 fill, it would of been fine for him to put the rubbish in mine, all he needed to do was ask.

#38

Cleaners- make your own cleaners from vinegar and water, better for the environment, less packaging and shipping, cheaper!

I love making my own cleaners! :o I save so much money and I have a clear conscience as far as environmental impact is concerned. I would be happy to share some simple recipes for laundry soap and other cleaners if anyone is interested.

And, to stay on topic, I am currently a struggling meat addict who is trying desperatly to cut down on my meat consumption. :(:stuck_out_tongue: I don’t know if I will ever be a full vegetarian or vegan, but I do feel the need to reduce my impact of suffering on animals. It is hard to change ingrained habits for sure!

#39

Please DO share your recipes. But maybe start a new thread in this forum to do it. Thanks :slight_smile:

#40

My two cents:

While the vegetarian diet may be ideal in practicing ahimsa toward other beings, it may not always be the best for practicing ahimsa toward oneself. Even in Ayurveda, meat is sometimes in the diet to balance the doshas. People have different nutritional needs.

As a yoga teacher, accepting and encouraging others (including other yoga teachers) to be who they are and where they are in their own journey as it unfolds for them is much more interesting to me than telling them how they [I]should[/I] be or act. That, too, would be a variety of violence. If yoga takes hold in someone’s life, the yoga will do itself, and people will naturally gravitate towards the sustenance they need not only in diet, but in relationships, and all things human.

Excellent topic. Thanks for the discussion!

#41

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]Hi Pandara,

“we” should also be quite careful what “we” accuse others of. What makes you believe Sunyuting intends to do harm to others around him with his speakings? You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean.[/quote]

Hi Quetzalcoatl,

As I have said in another post, hindsight is a wonderful teacher and I would like to thank you for holding up the mirror. It took me a while to face the reflection, but thank you for that.

To Sunnyuting,

I would like to apologise for being harsh and even uncompassionate in my words towards you. If you are still lurking in the shadows as a guest I hope this message finds you. It is a pity you were banned and cannot continue this discussion here anymore, I for one would have loved to read your response to what I have said. If you did reply and I have missed it because your were banned and subsequently your posts were deleted, then I am sorry that I have missed your reply, but I do not visit this Forum so frequently anymore as I used to due to circumstances.

#42

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]Hi Sunyuting,

maybe, but this is Yoga, so maybe you should read at least the Wikipedia-article to gain some insights to the concept.

According to Wikipedia, Nick Williams, Art Davie, Rorion Gracie and Robert Meyrowitz created the UFC; if you have other sources, maybe you should edit the article…

I agree that it can be fun. Please explain why you think and/or feel it is.

I’d say that it’s non love toward meat eating, that act, you know, not the persons performing it. A significant difference. The people not performing it are seen as immature, naiv, not-understanding, weak and such.

Personally I think that Hatha Yoga as explained by the Yoga Sutra wants to avoid a guilty conscious which would disturb one’s meditation. I had recently explained that viewpoint in detail here. Basically it means that one who is violent will experience some conflict and needs time to process their violent actions to clarify that conflict (like “was it right? What else could I have done? What about the one I hurt?”, etc). That equals movements of the mind, which are unwanted in Hatha Yoga.

But there is also another explanation: Violence causes pain and pain is a signal. A signal tells the receptor of it what they should or should not do. For example will you experience pain when you cut yourself. Cutting yourself is actually the problem, because it will endanger your existence. You might already bleed to death or have the functionality of your body constrained. This is unwanted, so nature invented a wide spectrum of pain to guide creatures through life and tell them where they should be cautious.

Some feelings tell you what’s wrong, some what’s dangerous, some what’s good, some what absolutely necessary. There are obviously positive signals too, like when a food tastes very good. You want to eat it then and naturally, that food would be good for you (unfortunately, taste nowadays is perverted by greedy people to make money, but that’s another story). One of the best positive feelings comes with sex, have a guess why.

Get it so far?

Now: Along with a spiritual practice often comes an awareness that not only no being is an isolated entity, but that all existence is closely related and - in a way - even one single unit. That’s in the bible too, you should focus your studies on the new testament and the teachings of Jesus, who updated the old testamentical “eye for an eye” to “if you get smacked on one cheek, expose the other”.

With such a consciousness, compassion arises. That also is in the bible, when Jesus says something like “what you do to the lowest of my brothers, you do to me”. If you understand yourself as part of a larger unity and the borders between you and other entities fade away, you really feel the pain that others feel. So if you see someone suffering, you don’t think that’s funny, but feel the suffering as your own, you receive the signal that’s telling the other being something is wrong, as your own signal, telling you that something is wrong.

And so you will abstain from hurting other as much as you abstain from hurting yourself, and you will try to reduce or end the suffering of others, as much as you try that with your own suffering.

Makes sense, doesn’t it?

[B]Hi Pandara,[/B]

[B]You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean[/B].[/quote]

Hi Quetzalcoatl,

Yes, I have read and re-read what you have said here many times and I must thank you for a wonderful example you set for us here on the Forum on how to appropriately respond to other people and what they say.

I am just wondering why you couldn’t afford me the same courtesy and kindness you expect of others (per your example above) here:

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]We think, Pandara, that we have a lot to learn, that we are not even headed in the right direction yet, that we lie to ourselves and others too. I think that we should step away from our vanity and that we should realize and acknowledge who we really are and where we really stand and what we really feel and that we should accept this and work with reality, instead of surpressing ourselves and denying ourselves and pretending to be something more evolved. Because what we are will always sneak through our fassades anyway and it will disgust us away.

Unfortunately, we can’t accept what we are, because we’d think that’d throw us back on our great path of evolution and we really don’t want to start over from the beginning. So we will just see our discerning questions and comments as a momentary disturbance, that we should simply ignore, because we must be walking awesomenesses when we know some stuff about bones and ancient books and how to talk a little pretty. Every now and then we will present ourselves very surpised if we think we suck big time and we will assume that we must be somewhat mislead or sick inside to misjudge us so badly and we will find a few more pretty words to pretend some understanding, tolerance and sympathy of and for and with such spiritual infancy.

All along we will frequently lament how the real Yoga, that we represent, is watered down by us and how sad it makes us, that millions of us are involved with such a wonderful thing Yoga is, but we still make no difference and we still have no impact on society, because all we want is another slice of a lousy pie to cram down our greedy throats to blow up our already overly fat bellies even more.

Oh, how time passes when we’re enjoying ourselves… Now we must go and buy us some chakra-panties, so:

Namaste OM Shanti Hare Rama and a whole lot of loving blessings to us all![/quote]

#43

Because he doesn’t expect courtesy or kindness.

He understands what we are.

#44

[quote=David;32464]Because he doesn’t expect courtesy or kindness.

He understands what we are.[/quote]

So I misunderstood his post? Then how can he then lament the fact that others, including me, don’t respond to his posts? (I think here especially of the Nonsense thread started by Nichole) If that is the example he sets, then he must lead by it as well, again see the awesome example he so eloquently typed up for me above. Or is he above his own examples and expectations of others? Don’t you think what’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

David, seeing that you understand what he understands us to be, will you be so kind to inform us about what he understands us to be?

#45

Violent.

Vrede broer.

#46

I noticed many using the slippery slope fallacy. That if we are going to become vegetarian then we should also not drive cars, use any modern products, or wash our hands etc. Nope, it does not quite work like this. This is like saying if I steal a 1 penny sweet, then I might as well steal a 10p mini chocolate bar, a ?1 can of coke, a ?100 watch, a ?1000 laptop, ?10,000 car, a ?100,000 business, a ?1,000,000 inheritance of my rich uncle :wink:

It is obvious the difference is in magnitude. I can make some efforts to be an ethical consumer and they will make some difference, but this does not force me to become absolutely ethical.

There is no such thing as something being good or bad. Something can be either be beneficial or harmful. It is beneficial for animals and the ecosystems of this planet for all humans to be vegetarian, because we are disturbing the ecosystems of this planet by systematically slaughtering animals for humans and throwing the natural balance out of skelter. In Yoga, if you went to beyond certain stages in your practice, meat is going to be harmful because of its tamasic properties. If you have a hot air balloon containing many heavy things you will limit the altitude to which the hot air balloon can naturally go, in order to go higher you need to offload the weight. Well, similarly if you want to go to highest stages of Yoga practice you are going to have to have a more sattvic diet and lifestyle at some point. This is going to be very hard if you have been consuming tamasic diet and lifestyle for much of your life. If you think about it, we don’t get a lot of time on this planet, so we really need to get things right from the word go. If your goal is reaching the summits of Yoga then start sattvic from the word go and don’t look back.