Should Yoga teachers be Vegetarian

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#41

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]Hi Pandara,

“we” should also be quite careful what “we” accuse others of. What makes you believe Sunyuting intends to do harm to others around him with his speakings? You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean.[/quote]

Hi Quetzalcoatl,

As I have said in another post, hindsight is a wonderful teacher and I would like to thank you for holding up the mirror. It took me a while to face the reflection, but thank you for that.

To Sunnyuting,

I would like to apologise for being harsh and even uncompassionate in my words towards you. If you are still lurking in the shadows as a guest I hope this message finds you. It is a pity you were banned and cannot continue this discussion here anymore, I for one would have loved to read your response to what I have said. If you did reply and I have missed it because your were banned and subsequently your posts were deleted, then I am sorry that I have missed your reply, but I do not visit this Forum so frequently anymore as I used to due to circumstances.

#42

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]Hi Sunyuting,

maybe, but this is Yoga, so maybe you should read at least the Wikipedia-article to gain some insights to the concept.

According to Wikipedia, Nick Williams, Art Davie, Rorion Gracie and Robert Meyrowitz created the UFC; if you have other sources, maybe you should edit the article…

I agree that it can be fun. Please explain why you think and/or feel it is.

I’d say that it’s non love toward meat eating, that act, you know, not the persons performing it. A significant difference. The people not performing it are seen as immature, naiv, not-understanding, weak and such.

Personally I think that Hatha Yoga as explained by the Yoga Sutra wants to avoid a guilty conscious which would disturb one’s meditation. I had recently explained that viewpoint in detail here. Basically it means that one who is violent will experience some conflict and needs time to process their violent actions to clarify that conflict (like “was it right? What else could I have done? What about the one I hurt?”, etc). That equals movements of the mind, which are unwanted in Hatha Yoga.

But there is also another explanation: Violence causes pain and pain is a signal. A signal tells the receptor of it what they should or should not do. For example will you experience pain when you cut yourself. Cutting yourself is actually the problem, because it will endanger your existence. You might already bleed to death or have the functionality of your body constrained. This is unwanted, so nature invented a wide spectrum of pain to guide creatures through life and tell them where they should be cautious.

Some feelings tell you what’s wrong, some what’s dangerous, some what’s good, some what absolutely necessary. There are obviously positive signals too, like when a food tastes very good. You want to eat it then and naturally, that food would be good for you (unfortunately, taste nowadays is perverted by greedy people to make money, but that’s another story). One of the best positive feelings comes with sex, have a guess why.

Get it so far?

Now: Along with a spiritual practice often comes an awareness that not only no being is an isolated entity, but that all existence is closely related and - in a way - even one single unit. That’s in the bible too, you should focus your studies on the new testament and the teachings of Jesus, who updated the old testamentical “eye for an eye” to “if you get smacked on one cheek, expose the other”.

With such a consciousness, compassion arises. That also is in the bible, when Jesus says something like “what you do to the lowest of my brothers, you do to me”. If you understand yourself as part of a larger unity and the borders between you and other entities fade away, you really feel the pain that others feel. So if you see someone suffering, you don’t think that’s funny, but feel the suffering as your own, you receive the signal that’s telling the other being something is wrong, as your own signal, telling you that something is wrong.

And so you will abstain from hurting other as much as you abstain from hurting yourself, and you will try to reduce or end the suffering of others, as much as you try that with your own suffering.

Makes sense, doesn’t it?

[B]Hi Pandara,[/B]

[B]You might also consider that there are better ways to enlighten a person than just threating them. Read the above for an example of what I mean[/B].[/quote]

Hi Quetzalcoatl,

Yes, I have read and re-read what you have said here many times and I must thank you for a wonderful example you set for us here on the Forum on how to appropriately respond to other people and what they say.

I am just wondering why you couldn’t afford me the same courtesy and kindness you expect of others (per your example above) here:

[quote=Quetzalcoatl;30621]We think, Pandara, that we have a lot to learn, that we are not even headed in the right direction yet, that we lie to ourselves and others too. I think that we should step away from our vanity and that we should realize and acknowledge who we really are and where we really stand and what we really feel and that we should accept this and work with reality, instead of surpressing ourselves and denying ourselves and pretending to be something more evolved. Because what we are will always sneak through our fassades anyway and it will disgust us away.

Unfortunately, we can’t accept what we are, because we’d think that’d throw us back on our great path of evolution and we really don’t want to start over from the beginning. So we will just see our discerning questions and comments as a momentary disturbance, that we should simply ignore, because we must be walking awesomenesses when we know some stuff about bones and ancient books and how to talk a little pretty. Every now and then we will present ourselves very surpised if we think we suck big time and we will assume that we must be somewhat mislead or sick inside to misjudge us so badly and we will find a few more pretty words to pretend some understanding, tolerance and sympathy of and for and with such spiritual infancy.

All along we will frequently lament how the real Yoga, that we represent, is watered down by us and how sad it makes us, that millions of us are involved with such a wonderful thing Yoga is, but we still make no difference and we still have no impact on society, because all we want is another slice of a lousy pie to cram down our greedy throats to blow up our already overly fat bellies even more.

Oh, how time passes when we’re enjoying ourselves… Now we must go and buy us some chakra-panties, so:

Namaste OM Shanti Hare Rama and a whole lot of loving blessings to us all![/quote]

#43

Because he doesn’t expect courtesy or kindness.

He understands what we are.

#44

[quote=David;32464]Because he doesn’t expect courtesy or kindness.

He understands what we are.[/quote]

So I misunderstood his post? Then how can he then lament the fact that others, including me, don’t respond to his posts? (I think here especially of the Nonsense thread started by Nichole) If that is the example he sets, then he must lead by it as well, again see the awesome example he so eloquently typed up for me above. Or is he above his own examples and expectations of others? Don’t you think what’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

David, seeing that you understand what he understands us to be, will you be so kind to inform us about what he understands us to be?

#45

Violent.

Vrede broer.

#46

I noticed many using the slippery slope fallacy. That if we are going to become vegetarian then we should also not drive cars, use any modern products, or wash our hands etc. Nope, it does not quite work like this. This is like saying if I steal a 1 penny sweet, then I might as well steal a 10p mini chocolate bar, a ?1 can of coke, a ?100 watch, a ?1000 laptop, ?10,000 car, a ?100,000 business, a ?1,000,000 inheritance of my rich uncle :wink:

It is obvious the difference is in magnitude. I can make some efforts to be an ethical consumer and they will make some difference, but this does not force me to become absolutely ethical.

There is no such thing as something being good or bad. Something can be either be beneficial or harmful. It is beneficial for animals and the ecosystems of this planet for all humans to be vegetarian, because we are disturbing the ecosystems of this planet by systematically slaughtering animals for humans and throwing the natural balance out of skelter. In Yoga, if you went to beyond certain stages in your practice, meat is going to be harmful because of its tamasic properties. If you have a hot air balloon containing many heavy things you will limit the altitude to which the hot air balloon can naturally go, in order to go higher you need to offload the weight. Well, similarly if you want to go to highest stages of Yoga practice you are going to have to have a more sattvic diet and lifestyle at some point. This is going to be very hard if you have been consuming tamasic diet and lifestyle for much of your life. If you think about it, we don’t get a lot of time on this planet, so we really need to get things right from the word go. If your goal is reaching the summits of Yoga then start sattvic from the word go and don’t look back.

#47

For me there are three types of vegetarians:

  1. Those who dislike the taste/ texture and therefore refrain from eating it.
  2. Those who believe in ahisma.
  3. Those who are against the ill-treatment of animals for commercial purposes, but do not believe eating meat is necessarily wrong.

I am a vegetarian based on type 3. That said it was very much a personal decision that felt right for me. I am always conscious not to impose my view on non-vegetarians with should statements. You can apply the same sentiment to religious evangelists, when they start telling people what they should be doing, you find most people shy away.

I believe living by example is how you influence people, and that is a where I spend my energy.

Do you know where your CHOCOLATE comes from?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8583000/8583499.stm

Love and light to you all.

#48

Please remember that Ahimsa is not only about non-harming animals.

Ahimsa also implies non - harming to you own body where your spirit dwells.

At some point the body might ask for deeper level of purification - and then you can cut you meat.

Some traditions (like Cristian orthodox) have special times of the year when they do not eat meat and diary. (when other foods available in abundance) But there is a note in the bible that it is not relevant to sick, pregnant and old people.

I’m an proponent of putting together Yoga and contemporary science (and they fet together very well). We know a lot about nutrition and etc. I think it is very dumb to follow the dogma.

#49

[QUOTE=concoulor3;30816]
Buddha died by eating bad pork. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

LOL:) just nasty anecdote!

#50

Yes, you are right.
The should eat only animals who eat grass.
:slight_smile:

#51

[QUOTE=charliedharma;29632]Often vegetarianism or a dropping away of animal eating would occur naturally and in a healthy manner rather than forcing it.[/QUOTE]

I think that’s key. That’s how it happened/is happening for me. I feel forcing something like a change in lifestyle can be a form of ahimsa in and of itself. You shouldn’t become a vegetarian, or do anything really, because someone else does it or because of an ideology.

Love and do what you will- St. Agustine.

#52

In all the teachers I’ve had , known or talked to, the topic of how to eat has never been brought up. Both my daughter and myself are vegetarians. For us it is a matter of choice and we do not try to convert anyone to vegetarianism. However, becoming a vegetarian has had a domino effect in other areas of my life. Soon after becoming a vegetarian I got rid of all toxic cleaning and laundry products, use aluminum free deodorant, use organic natural hair products, buy organic clothing, buy fair trade, buy locally grown, organic produce when I can, in my garden I use no pesticides and well, the list goes on. Not to mention before becoming a vegetarian I could not tolerate nuts, beans or onion. Now I can. I feel better and have more energy. But again, it is a choice. My husband jokingly writes on the grocery list, remember us carnivores!

So for me, becoming a vegetarian has had a real positive effect in other areas of my life. For that I am grateful. I can’t foresee ever going back to eating meat, but it’s my choice! Humans are omnivores, eating both plants and animals. Neither is wrong.

#53

Namaste,

I seem to have completely overlooked the original question last time on whether Yoga teachers should be vegetarian. My simple answer to this question is Yes. In fact they are duty bound by the profession to do so. All professions require some duties which regulate our behaviour, such as if you’re a teacher you should not swear in class, a spiritual leader should not engage in illicit sexual activity, a political leader should not lie and deceive(Bill Clinton got impeached for it)

A Yoga teacher is more than just somebody who teaches Yoga to people, they are examples of the Yoga way of life. If they set bad examples, then they will reproduce the same bad examples in their students.

All Yoga ashrams in India require vegetarianism from their teachers and students.

#54

[QUOTE=concoulor3;30816]While Yoga and Buddhism are sepparte entities, they do have a strong intertwining thread. I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that Buddha died by eating bad pork. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

The jury is still out on that one I think. Some say it wasn’t pork but truffles. Those who say that want to make sure their Buddha never, ever ate meat, which is fine with me but if he died from bad pork that sort of also points in the same direction, doesn’t it?

#55

There is no need for the yoga teacher to be a vegetarian, but being a vegetarian calms your mind and increases the chance of the person being suitable for a yogic lifestyle.

#56

We are what we do. I don’t look further down the road than my feet can travel that day and I think that’s natural. I started being a vegetarian for health reasons and I suppose after that , " it chose me"; now I’m a vegetarian for social and enviromental reasons and I’m convinced that in a century or two or three, they’ll look back in disgust at the troglodytes we are because of what we do. I do not ask of myself or any other to go out of the path they are on, just that ‘we’ consider doing things as well as we can. Then , if Life is worth its salt, better ways will open at our feet. Like asana, I think ahimsa proceeds in straight lines from your gut to where you can see yourself going, not in absolute lines that that angle off from the information overload in our heads to infinity. Like an artistic English teacher ( attributes because I don’t remember her name ( And Thanks Pandara for remembering mine )) once asked Nicole, " Why are so many of the guys on this forum seem to be having a pee-ing contest ? " It took a while for me to get adjusted to saying Namaste too, but it just keeps getting better and better to say, Namaste

#57

[QUOTE=gentle_yogini;30449]I agree with justwannabe. (I quite enjoyed reading your reply!) :slight_smile: Vegetarianism/ veganism is only a small part of living without hurting other living beings. I think that a more rounded approach to living while considering our every action on our environment is a better approach.

Starting with food- eating organically and locally as much as possible, as this is better for the earth and the farming community. Even if you eat meat- doing so less frequently and only buying free rang organic, so you are making the best choice for the earth and respecting the animal itself.

Clothing- cotton is such a pesticide laden crop, it’s stripping away at the earth. Read David Suzuki or Adria Vasil to learn more about this. Buy organic cotton clothing, or alternative materials like bamboo and hemp. Try to buy sweat shop free.

Cleaners- make your own cleaners from vinegar and water, better for the environment, less packaging and shipping, cheaper!

I could go on and on… My point is that yes, with yoga many people become more aware of what they eat. Not eating meat anymore is the start of it for some. But it shouldn’t stop there. We should also become aware of what we are wearing, where it came from, it’s impacts, the shampoo we use, the cleaners we use, the paint we use, etc.

Not eating meat but wearing pesticide soaked cotton which is eating away at our earth, and using products full of parabens, which have been shown to cause cancer, etc, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s a much broader picture.

Ps. I have yoga teachers who used to be vegan and now eat meat, I have teachers who have always eaten meat, and I have some who are firm vegan/ vegetarians. They all are equally great teachers.[/QUOTE]

Eating a mixed diet of meat and vegetation is, and has been, fundamental to human existence since our beginning. To insist otherwise is unhealthy and unnatural. To each their own. I will look to the genuine skill of my teachers as a requisite.

#58

It is interesting that Yoga teaches us to be inner-bound, yet unknowingly most of our thinking remains outward-bound. So, the question of being vegetarian, more particularly for the Yoga teachers, has got covered by cruelty to animals, narrow definition of ahinsa, social and ethical contexts, even recipes etc.

There is also a reference of Hatha Yoga being explained by Yoga Sutra and that eating meat carries a guilt that hinders meditation. This argument appeals to our emotional self but is not completely true.

It would be educating to know which sutra directly or even indirectly speaks of ‘guilt’ any time. Yoga Sutra warns against dogmas and does not give any. It tells us how to purify the physical, astral and causal bodies. Various exercises are prescribed to strengthen the respective metabolisms to bring about that cleansing. It is a Yogi’s choice of what, when and how much to eat that will not tax the purification process and ability. Yoga Sutra also maintains that not guilt, but traces of pain itself are imprinted in the meat and get directly transferred to the subtle bodies, again taxing the cleansing process. And finally, at the causal level, the karma effect can be seen as what kills gets killed.

Yoga is a very delicate balancing act. Yama-Niyama can never be regimented; they succeed only when assimilated as a way of life. If you are used to eating meat, not by choice but the way you were brought up and much before you could even think about it, a forced abstaining from it will create deprivation, an equal impediment for meditation. Hence, eating vegetarian food that brings in the least amount of residues should remain a conscious and well cultivated choice of a Yogi and the teacher should be the first to reach there.

#59

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32472]I noticed many using the slippery slope fallacy. That if we are going to become vegetarian then we should also not drive cars, use any modern products, or wash our hands etc. Nope, it does not quite work like this. This is like saying if I steal a 1 penny sweet, then I might as well steal a 10p mini chocolate bar, a ?1 can of coke, a ?100 watch, a ?1000 laptop, ?10,000 car, a ?100,000 business, a ?1,000,000 inheritance of my rich uncle :wink:

.[/QUOTE]
I felt the orignial poster was being very strict in her beliefs so I took it to the extreme on purpose, however in that extreme I still see validity.
personally I have a “yogic” friend who pointed fingers at me because of my water use and many other things I have done in this world, and she says I dont care, however when i told this friend that I have not used Air conditioning in my room for three years, I pee in the yard when possible, etc… she still wants to stick to my lack of worrying about the water on the planet. sometimes people just see a strict viewpoint and do not open up to another viewpoint, and i belive people saying that one should be a vegetarian, then they should just go live in a forest. If eating meet harms us because of the fear that the animal had before death, why would the fear that they have in their breath as we bulldoze the forest not enter us as well, for we eat the air.
sometimes going to extremes can help us see the ridiculousness in our accusation of others, sometimes not.

#60

The fear of the animal gets lodged into its flesh, which we then consume. It is a subtle energy that we cannot see, but it is there. We then consume this and make that negative energy a part of us.

Of course we cannot live absolutely ethically but we sure can strive to live as ethical as is possible. The more ethically we live the better our karma.