The scriptures on yoga stress the importance of a vegetarian diet. So if you want to be a practitioner of yoga, it is necessary to observe this.
Which scriptures and what exactly do they say?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38397]No, humans are not made to eat meat. They are omnivorous, they can choose whether to eat meat or eat fruit, veg, nuts. Just as they can choose to have sex or not sex, or do good or do evil.
The dharma of the human being is unique because it has a characteristic that the scorpian is missing and that its ability for creativity and free will. The human being can reflect on its thoughts and act according and creatively, and thus it has access to higher spiritual faculties. The spirit sees what the scorpian and crocodile does not, that all beings are part of the same divine essence and all of them are on a journey to return to the supreme divine.
I think if you were really honest with yourself and consulted the divine spirit within it would found the killing of its creatures repugnant. I certainly have felt the presence of the divine in animals, such as my pet dog, and trust me if anybody tried to harm my dog I would defend him with the same intensity as I would defend a human child.
Consuming flesh is consuming highly dense food, which requires a lot of energy and effort of the human body to digest to extract out the nutrients and this simply increases the quality of tamas(ineria and heaviness) further grounding us into body-consciousness. The energy that we receive is a substandard energy which has been recycled many times. The primary source of the energy is the nourishing energy of the sun and the earth in fruit, veg, dairy and nuts. This gets consumed by herbivores and then part of it is converted into flesh which is more dense energy. The carnivore then eats the herbivore and the energy of the flesh gets converted into even more dense flesh for the carinivore. At this point if the human eats the carinovore they are consuming the lowest and thereby the most densest amount of energy. And if we take it to the extreme if the human eats another human than that is the most densest and lowest energy possible(extremely high tamas) and it completely reflects in the savage behaviour of the cannibal.
I think I have a good point here as people feel the lightest when they eat fruit and veg and heaviest when they consume flesh. Isn’t it also interestingly how unpopular carnivorous hardcore red meat is amongst humans? Thus logic dictates to me that if I want the most freshest, lightest and highest in natural energy I should eat fruit, veg, dairy and nuts. It will increase the qualitiy of sattva in the body which is needed to break away from body-consciousness and move into soul-consciousness. This is why many Yogis advise you to observe vegetarian diets, especially if you are desirous of attaining the highest goals of Yoga, the union with divinity. And as spirit finds the killing of its creatures repugnant I can see why flesh-eaters will struggle on the path.[/QUOTE]
Surya Deva, I was away from the forum for quite a while and never read your post: You would defend your pet dog as fiercly as a human child? That is so sweet. God, I could almost hug you for that. Ok, I give you a cyber hug for that. We are all God’s creatures. But the animals are special, because we have to protect them, not use them. We have a responsibility.
In terms of nutritional needs, I think everyone’s needs are different. This may be based on body type as well as activity. I eat mostly vegetarian (I eat eggs, no dairy, and I love fish once a week) but when my period shows up, bam, I crave chicken. Otherwise I eat tons of fresh produce and whole grains, legumes etc. And I’m a total sucker for tofu.
But for me, the need for animal protein arises with my hormones, it would seem.
When it comes to diet & Ahimsa, I think it’s important to first be non-violent with yourself and go from there. Starting with a more sattvic diet is more important that turning vegan tomorrow. Making strict & drastic dietary changes that you don’t really have a chance to stick to and then beating yourself up & feeling guilty over it all, that’s not Ahimsa either.
“I would also say that any person in the New Age movement who has ambitions to be a teacher and who talks of love, should also be a Vegetarian. If they are not, I think they haven’t yet fully opened their heart to the suffering of other creatures, they are not aware enough, or if they are, they might still be too selfish and succumb to their desires of wanting to eat meat.”
There is absolutely nothing so called “spiritual” in itself whatsoever in being a vegetarian, neither does it qualify for having come to a certain state of being which may be called compassionate, neither does it mean that one has come to any insight into existence. In fact, most people who are vegetarians are not vegetarian out of an authentic compassion, but simply to nourish their own ego, it makes them feel as though they are somehow doing something special, or that they are being “good” doers.
The reason why vegetarianism has been recommended in the yogic sciences has nothing at all to do with morality. It is simply that different kinds of foods have different effects on the mind. Just as the body absorbs energy of food, as does the mind. And different foods will tend to create different psychological tendencies. Fruits and vegetables will tend to create a certain atmosphere in one’s mind which is far more supportive for meditation. That is why to be a vegetarian during the practice of yoga is simply a method, a skillful means to help create an inner space which is prepared for transformation. There are many such methods. To remain celibate is another. Again, it is not because of anything to do with morality. It helps to sharpen the concentrative power of the mind, which can either be channeled towards meditation, or help awaken the Kundalini at the base of the spine.
There is nothing “moral” or “spiritual” about being vegetarian. Because you can be a vegetarian and remains just as unconscious and asleep as one has always been. Neither does it mean that one is non-violent. Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, and he has been one of the most violent human beings who has ever lived on the Earth.
You may be a vegetarian and be very non-compassionate. But if you are compassionate, then you may have a tendency to become a vegetarian. These two situations, although they appear the same on the outside, are dimensions apart.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;48090]You may be a vegetarian and be very non-compassionate.[/QUOTE]
But, can you be a non-vegetarian, and still be compassionate/fulfil the ahimsa yama?
"But, can you be a non-vegetarian, and still be compassionate/fulfil the ahimsa yama? "
That depends upon your own standards of what you consider to be violent or non-violent. There are some Jain yogis for whom picking an apple from a tree is considered violent, they will have to eat an apple which has already fallen. They will not eat foods which have grown out of the Earth, because to pull them out from their roots is considered too violent. Even if you step on an insect without the intention to kill, it is considered a sin, you will have to bear the consequences of it’s karma. And according to this line of thinking, everything becomes a so called “sin”. Because just sitting here breathing, you are killing thousands of micro-organisms. Just a simple process like walking, you are stepping on countless organisms. And for the mind of one who is far too fanatic with the idea of non-violence, everything that you do can be considered an act of violence.
So it all depends on your own standards of what you consider non-violence. And it is my own understanding that it has very little to do with one’s behavior, but whether one has come to an awakening into one’s true nature. Having seen into one’s original face, one immediately will realize the same nature flows through all things. And out of this, it is impossible not to be compassionate. Once one’s consciousness is in tune with existence, then compassion becomes a very natural state of being. And all of our clinging to conscious efforts to do this or not to do this, should’s or should not’s, do’s and don’ts, are all working just as a substitute for one’s own compassionate intelligence.
For those who have come to know of compassion, these matters are more or less irrelevant. Whatever arises out of one’s being is going to speak for itself, as a life of it’s own. One simply has to remain silent with it and let it do it’s own work. But all of these people who are trying hard to do all kinds of things with an attachment to an idea of what it is to be compassionate have yet to come to the space.
Let us not talk of what the scriptures say. The aim of yoga is self realisation, which effectively means realising that the you and other living creatures are part of the same paramatman. If that is the goal, who eats whom ? I think that is probably a more convincing arguement for being a vegan.
For me it’s pretty clear.
I perfectly know that living on a zero-violence condition is almost impossible, as you need to feed from other life forms, and alter nature for obtaining your crops, your industry, etc…
But between exerting that violence and the same plus bloody steaks on your table, there’s a considerable gap. If one can perfectly override animal products, why should do it? Gluttony is the only answer that arises in my mind.
[B]It is always preferable X violence units, rather than X + Y violence units.[/B]
[I]
Assuming that, X: industry and agriculture, Y: bloody steaks[/I]
Mankind is still young, we’re still learning, do not pretend to perfectly establish yourself in Ahimsa if you live in an industrialized country. And remember that if you lived in a rural region, under totally traditional, rural conditions, you wouldn’t have neither technology for posting your comments here, nor time for your spiritual sadhana. You would have to work day and night for your crops and occasionally deal with famine.
That simple.
Elizabeth,
After coming home from India with my guru, Kali Ray who is an advid vegan; I couldn’t image yoga and meat eaters in the same mouthful. Mahatma Gandhi stated pretty clear that we are judged by the way we treat animals, not eat animals. I also realize that we change only we when we get it and we are not here to judge but to inspire.
Diana Ross
[/QUOTE]
Diana Ross,
“I couldn’t image yoga and meat eaters in the same mouthful”
Then imagine it. In fact, in certain methods of tantra, eating meat can be used as a method to stimulate the senses towards samadhi. And if you have an aversion from eating meat, I suggest you treat yourself to a turkey dinner.
What is far more significant is to transcend all of these childish ideas, that one’s state of being is determined by all of these things which are simply superficial. Unless an authentic compassion arises within oneself, one should not even be concerned with something as irrelevant as whether one is a vegetarian or not. If compassion arises, the way towards existence will reveal itself. And without doing anything, any action that arises out of your being will be the right action.
[QUOTE=Diana Ross;48138]Elizabeth,
After coming home from India with my guru, Kali Ray who is an advid vegan; I couldn’t image yoga and meat eaters in the same mouthful. Mahatma Gandhi stated pretty clear that we are judged by the way we treat animals, not eat animals. I also realize that we change only we when we get it and we are not here to judge but to inspire.
Diana Ross
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Diana, this forum is full of meat eating Yoga practioners. I don’t say this meaning to offend, I too was a meat eating Yoga practioner at one stage. But I started the thread as a reaction to one of the members here who is still quite young and wants to preach about love and other things. That’s what started this whole thing. Of course, I have also learnt much from my ex-guru and to me the whole idea of someone teaching Yoga and still eating meat is just absurd. I kind of forgot that I was exposed to tradtional Yoga with an Indian teacher, and that in America or the West in general Yoga is still mostly about Asanas. Didn’t take that into consideration.
Eating meat is the nice way of saying eating an animal, atman and all. Tantra for stimulation, meat for stimulation…Be careful you could reincarnate as a street dog in India. Then you will get it.
Enjoy your happy meal?
Interesting topic certainly!
I’ve been a vegetarian since I was young and I certainly wouldn’t change that but I wouldn’t shove that viewpoint down the throats of those practising around me.
[quote=AmirMourad;48148]Diana Ross,
“I couldn’t image yoga and meat eaters in the same mouthful”
Then imagine it. In fact, in certain methods of tantra, eating meat can be used as a method to stimulate the senses towards samadhi. And if you have an aversion from eating meat, I suggest you treat yourself to a turkey dinner.
What is far more significant is to transcend all of these childish ideas, that one’s state of being is determined by all of these things which are simply superficial. Unless an authentic compassion arises within oneself, one should not even be concerned with something as irrelevant as whether one is a vegetarian or not. If compassion arises, the way towards existence will reveal itself. And without doing anything, any action that arises out of your being will be the right action.[/quote]
In my opinion it is [B]gluttony[/B] what many should transcend.
Pancha Makara ritual says little to me, further, only Viras (rajastic sadhaks) are said to eat meat, and of course, for spiritual and not nutritional or pleasurable purposes.
Could somebody explain me what is the rationale behind Yoga and being a vegetarian? Trying not to eat meat due to fear of karma, I reckon, is not a valid argument, but a generally accepted, unchallenged myth.
I don’t eat red meat because it disturbs my stomach. This is something I do, completely based on my own bodily experience. Yet I eat chicken and fish, as it seems, my body needs it.
So explain a valid rationale behind Yoga and being a vegetarian, that is, if you can.
The moment one places an ideal upon another human being is the same moment they set their self up for eventual disapointment.
I think yoga teachers should be human.
[QUOTE=High Wolf;48286]Could somebody explain me what is the rationale behind Yoga and being a vegetarian? Trying not to eat meat due to fear of karma, I reckon, is not a valid argument, but a generally accepted, unchallenged myth.
I don’t eat red meat because it disturbs my stomach. This is something I do, completely based on my own bodily experience. Yet I eat chicken and fish, as it seems, my body needs it.
So explain a valid rationale behind Yoga and being a vegetarian, that is, if you can.[/QUOTE]
[B]COMPASSION[/B]. My ex-guru, who comes from a long Indian tradition, said we shouldn’t eat meat out of compassionate reasons. And I fully agree. If you go to India, I think Surya Deva mentioned it once, all Yoga Schools require of their teachers that they should be Vegetarian. I’m sure if you send him a private message, he could give you some other reasons as well. I am aware that some people are Vegetarian for other reasons, and don’t really care for the animals, but as far as I know COMPASSION is the reason why Yoga Teachers in India, or trained in India, are Vegetarian.
I also heard of Aghoris in India doing some horrible things and eating meat and smoking hash, but a respectable Yoga School would have nothing to do with such things.
Will all of you vegetarians out there start being compassionate and switch to only local, organic foods so you stop destroying the world’s air, oceans, and fresh water supply?
Thanks.