So, yoga isn't such an old system after all?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I just read this article in Yoga Journal that basically said that yoga as we know it today with asanas and a certain focus on physical health is fairly new and dates back to the beginning of the 20th century. That it is also influenced by lots of other tradtitions, like indian wrestling and that it has some influences coming from outside of India even.

This coincides with a global rise in interest for physical health and at the same time, in India, the rising of the nationalist movement to break free from thebritish. So there was a need for an indian version of physical training.

I have no proof of this, I just read the article and I don’t want to offend anyone, but I find this very interesting and it doesn’t sound that far fetched since at least three major yoga schools can be traced back to the same guy (Krishnamacharya), who if I’m correct completely revolutionalized the practice and teaching of yoga.

#2

Hi Terje, you made me laugh “to break free from thebritish” where di you read the article, I would like to read it as well.

:slight_smile:

#3

[QUOTE=Terje;43778]I just read this article in Yoga Journal that basically said that yoga as we know it today with asanas and a certain focus on physical health is fairly new and dates back to the beginning of the 20th century. That it is also influenced by lots of other tradtitions, like indian wrestling and that it has some influences coming from outside of India even.

This coincides with a global rise in interest for physical health and at the same time, in India, the rising of the nationalist movement to break free from thebritish. So there was a need for an indian version of physical training.

I have no proof of this, I just read the article and I don’t want to offend anyone, but I find this very interesting and it doesn’t sound that far fetched since at least three major yoga schools can be traced back to the same guy (Krishnamacharya), who if I’m correct completely revolutionalized the practice and teaching of yoga.[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: !!!

#4

It is laughable.

But on a serious note, if that is what is written, it is another example of freedom of speech gone haywire. Every right goes with responsibility and that is many times a casualty when it comes to Yoga.

Yoga is a technique, a transformation process as well as a goal. Some people appear either stuck with the first (with shallow understanding) or are deliberately positioning themselves there (due to commercial reasons). Both could be left where they are, as their karmic destiny or be woken up the Yoga way, through enlightenment. What needs to be nurtured is the minds of the serious seekers.

#5

[QUOTE=UnixYoga;43782]Hi Terje, you made me laugh “to break free from thebritish” where di you read the article, I would like to read it as well.

:)[/QUOTE]

Yoga Journal, november issue this year. I may have misread some parts of the article and I wasn’t being very careful when I started this thread this morning, Please, I am only curious, let’s not get too serious with this. I don’t claim to have any knowledge on the topic, I just read something that seemed interesting and want to know what’s in it.

As far as the thing with the brits… not having time to go back and check the article now I remember it as being described as a part of the indian independence movement and yoga could be used as a cover for political activities since yoga could be labeled religious. Whatever’s in that it’s interesting.

I do know that yoga is about far more than asanas. However, I do also know that asanas aren’t actually mentioned that much in the older texts while they are indeed a very important part of modern yoga, no matter what anyone says. Asanas is what pretty much everyone thnks of when they hear the word yoga, right or wrong.

Also, before reading this article I did stumble upon the fact that Krishnamacharya was indeed the teacdher of at least three important modern yoga teachers. That does seem to point in the direction of what the article was trying to say, right?

#6

Actually that might be an interesting subject.

Yoga is very old. We all know it.

Question: Has yoga been “frozen” to its very old ways OR is yoga being updated by new
human knowledge ?

#7

Yoga is always ‘new human knowledge’; only it occurs individually.

I see the discipline of Yoga like a pyramid: at the very top there is a common goal, but from bottom-up there are as many paths as the practitioners.

So, Yoga’s goal (“being pure consciousness”) [U]does[/U] not change, Yoga’s proven process [U]need [/U]not change, only Yoga’s technique gets refined, rearticulated and recalibrated from time to time. In essence, there is nothing ‘old’ about Yoga.

#8

I have never been told that yoga’s goal is “being pure consciousness.”

Never has that been mentioned by a yoga teacher of mine.

What does this mean?

#9

In all experiencing we do, we discriminate “self vs. rest-of-the-world”. That is reflex thinking and it generates awareness. In Yoga, a [B]variety of practices[/B] makes our thinking more and more devoid of biases, color and ego. This raises our awareness from gross/ visible objects to subtle/ invisible objects. Eventually, mind becomes purified, thinking can be suspended at will to let intuition prevail. Awareness of extremely subtle objects becomes possible, so that the world is no more self-centric but appears as a union between mind-matter and the Spirit, the pure consciousness itself.

Experiencing the Spirit is still a “duality” though of a very high order, as you remain the experiencer. Ultimately, even that duality ends in non-duality when you are just conscious. Period. This is as simple as I could make it.

Some times we are introduced only to the “practices” like asana and we remain content with their immediate benefits like health. That’s fine. Not practicing the other aspects of Yoga is possible, but not knowing that asana is one detail of Yoga is not right.

#10

Experiencing the Spirit is still a “duality” though of a very high order, as you remain the experiencer. Ultimately, even that duality ends in non-duality when you are just conscious. Period. This is as simple as I could make it.

Thanks for the clarification.

This is certainly not something in which I believe or to which I wish to aspire, however.

I believe in God, and I believe I am not God, and no yoga practice will lead me to anything other than that. I’ll give up my good feelings and headstands first, if this is what yoga has to be.

#11

Check out the beginning of Hatha Yoga Pradipika by Bihar school, a good write up on the history of yoga there.
Traditionally, yogis would enter an ashram for a period of years, away from the outside world. Before the creation of Hinduism, the ‘Rishis’ were the only ones practicing yoga. Hinduism, you could say, was a way of integrating yoga into every aspect of ones life, so that society as a whole was moving towards ‘God’ the ultimate truth, whatever you want to call it. This would have been a major revolution at the time.
The creation of the Yoga Sutras by Patanjali also signified a time when the practice of yoga was changing.
Up until very recently, you had to be a Hindu male of Indian birth and blood, to practice yoga.
So yoga has undergone some major evolutions and is continuing to evolve.
Always a very interesting subject…

#12

Germans exported yoga 200 years ago, then the upper class liberal Brits and eastern Americans latched on 150 years ago. Indian yogis saw a commercial opportunity and capitalized. Movie stars in the 1930s made it a popular fad and the commercialization ballooned since. Somewhere along the way it became a form of exercise and a way to relax. Some young white kids started going to India (following the Beatles), spent a couple of weeks there becoming ‘experts’. Popular female movie stars created a resurgence among women in the west. Men stayed away until they began getting in touch with their ‘feminine’ sides in the '90s. Entrepreneurs grabbed hold of the opportunity and jostled to create niches, splintering yoga into hundreds of variations. Gurus became rich gods on earth sapping off lost souls seeking to fill the void in their lives. Which brings us to today.

Good news is for me, I never would have discovered this wonderful life practice otherwise. In the meantime, hope you all look as good in lululemon pants as I do. :slight_smile:

#13

If you enquire about a belief or teaching of my church or most religions, you can find a definitive answer. If you play a game, you can cite the rules. You don’t make the rules as you go.

But there seems to be as many different definitions of “yoga” as there are people who do yoga, and sometimes they are contradictory.

#14

[QUOTE=thomas;43878]If you enquire about a belief or teaching of my church or most religions, you can find a definitive answer. If you play a game, you can cite the rules. You don’t make the rules as you go.

But there seems to be as many different definitions of “yoga” as there are people who do yoga, and sometimes they are contradictory.[/QUOTE]

People and their words are fallible, but that doesn’t mean the Truth they speak of is not Truth. If I fail to describe my cat well enough for you to picture it perfectly, you can’t blame it on the cat. When we attempt to define Truth we alter it, but we try anyway. For some people, these attempts lead to development of intuition, and then the crutches of “rules” and “definitions” are no longer needed.

#15

[QUOTE=trinley;43973]People and their words are fallible, but that doesn’t mean the Truth they speak of is not Truth. If I fail to describe my cat well enough for you to picture it perfectly, you can’t blame it on the cat. When we attempt to define Truth we alter it, but we try anyway. For some people, these attempts lead to development of intuition, and then the crutches of “rules” and “definitions” are no longer needed.[/QUOTE]

Beautifully spoken. Namaste

#16

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;43875]Germans exported yoga 200 years ago. :)[/QUOTE]

Just questions:

1 How did the Germans export yoga ? It was not made in Germany.

2 The Nazis used the swastika sign, which I think is some symbol in Hinduism.
I do not know what it is.

#17

The swastika is a sign of good fortune or auspiciousness for Hindus. It represents the four cardinal directions and the rotation of the earth. The swastika that Germans adopted is turned on its side and does not have the four dots the way the traditional swastika does.

#18

[QUOTE=oak333;44115]Just questions:

1 How did the Germans export yoga ? It was not made in Germany.

2 The Nazis used the swastika sign, which I think is some symbol in Hinduism.
I do not know what it is.[/QUOTE]

Sorry. I meant they were some of the first Europeans to find a relation to yoga practice and exported the practice out of India to Germany. My post is extremely succinct - too much. I am looking for the source and will post when I find it and have more time.

Yes. They also brought the swastika with them and a frustrated fellow with a bad haircut and moustache corrupted the darn thing.

#19

[QUOTE=Terje;43778]I just read this article in Yoga Journal that basically said that yoga as we know it today with asanas and a certain focus on physical health is fairly new and dates back to the beginning of the 20th century. That it is also influenced by lots of other tradtitions, like indian wrestling and that it has some influences coming from outside of India even.

This coincides with a global rise in interest for physical health and at the same time, in India, the rising of the nationalist movement to break free from thebritish. So there was a need for an indian version of physical training.

I have no proof of this, I just read the article and I don’t want to offend anyone, but I find this very interesting and it doesn’t sound that far fetched since at least three major yoga schools can be traced back to the same guy (Krishnamacharya), who if I’m correct completely revolutionalized the practice and teaching of yoga.[/QUOTE]

This is somewhat true…YOGA was not a bestselling brand 1000 years ago :slight_smile:
As far as I understood it started with Yoga Sutras and YOga was kind of a substitute for religion since India was torn by different religions systems and it resulted in wars and conflicts, and they still fighting…

As far as I see it… in Hatha yoga Pradipika (13 century?) where are very few poses and they basically were designed to assist with kriyas and prolonged meditation.

When the british took over the India, YOga became a tool to get money from westerns. Show few cool poses and get few rupees - ah-ha! Yogi became a synonym for magician and acrobat.

Westens got riped of by local yogis and desided to rip off their own citizens with the same trick. Here it is : yoga mat, yoga pants, yoga outfit, yoga tea, yoga facial cream, yoga retreat, yoga pen, yoga paper towels, yoga broom, ets…

#20

This is a very enlightening thread. I find that thankfully, the teachers I have worked with in the past have been wonderful.