[QUOTE=Shivoham;31973]when an unenlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring his ideas to you.
When an enlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring enlightenment to you.A transfer of energy takes place between guru and disciple
This is the basic principle of initiation.[/QUOTE]
well…should this be the case with any teaching? not just Kriya yoga?
I am happy to see this topic discussed, and am hoping someone can help me with a longstanding question. In Chapter 11 of Autobiography of a Yogi there is an interesting passage that says ?Pratap, I will instruct you in the Kriya of Lahiri Mahasaya, the greatest yogi of modern times. His technique will be your guru. The initiation was concluded in a half hour. ?Kriya is your chintamani."
This states that initiation to Kriya took half hour. If this be so, then it must be much simpler to learn and experience than how shrouded in mystery much of this thread indicates. I have mentioned this to a number of experienced yogis, asking their guidance, and nobody had any answer this this.
Please let me know “what” then is Kriya yoga, if it can be transmitted and/or learned in such a short time.
Thanks
[QUOTE=guitarz_dave;78452]I am happy to see this topic discussed, and am hoping someone can help me with a longstanding question. In Chapter 11 of Autobiography of a Yogi there is an interesting passage that says “Pratap, I will instruct you in the Kriya of Lahiri Mahasaya, the greatest yogi of modern times. His technique will be your guru. The initiation was concluded in a half hour. “Kriya is your chintamani."
This states that initiation to Kriya took half hour. If this be so, then it must be much simpler to learn and experience than how shrouded in mystery much of this thread indicates. I have mentioned this to a number of experienced yogis, asking their guidance, and nobody had any answer this this.
Please let me know “what” then is Kriya yoga, if it can be transmitted and/or learned in such a short time.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Please remember much of that book is a marketing tool and events have been blown up bigger than life in many cases as written by others who were there.
In my experience Kriya Yoga initiation one on one takes 15 to 20 minutes and shaktipat either occurs or it does not. If not someone put on a nice show for you. You will know the difference.
In my experience training took 2 whole days with review question and answers sessions and 4 guided meditation sessions.
I took notes and even then asked questions as did others.
The real work started when practicing on my own. I was very happy I took exacting notes.
Initiation explained:
http://www.kriya.org/about__initiation.php
Intoduction to kriya video https://learn.kriya.org/
I started with SRF but prefer this better.
[QUOTE=Seeking;78458]Please remember much of that book is a marketing tool and events have been blown up bigger than life in many cases as written by others who were there…[/QUOTE]
That sounds uncharacteristic of P.Y. from his book, which I have read cover-to-cover. Although from reading the online books by Ennio Nimis which another person in our forum shared, I guess it must be the case (and it sounded like the traditional control issues from organized religion). What I can share from my interests as a musician is that the best players always share their knowledge, which creates a good dynamic, and also spurs them to continually increase their skills/knowledge. I certainly appreciate everyone in our forum who shares their knowledge and experience, which is how I understand P.Y. lived his life by also doing so.
[QUOTE=Pandara;7404]Hi, I had a discussion with a fellow yogi this afternoon about Kriya yoga. My understanding has always been that you need initiation into Kriya yoga. You can do the asanas and pranayama, but they won’t be as effective as when you had an initiation. According to her this is not necessary and that the Kriya yoga she does is so powerful that you don’t need initiation. She at lenght explained to me some of the asanans and pranayama etc. Can somebody shed some light on this please.[/QUOTE]
Pandara,
If ‘you’ and ‘she’ mean by Kriya Yoga as developed by ascending line of Paramhansa Yogananda and; and its basic philosophy emphasizes on ‘Tap’, ‘Svadhyaya’ and ‘Ishwara Pranidhyana’ i.e. three of Niyamas of Patanjali. I would say…YES… it does need initiation as per design. There are seven levels of meditation practice. The type of Yoga is highly beneficial for a true spritual seeker or self realisation at any level, not for who are looking for fitness and developemental issues at any one or two of levels such as physical, mental, emotional, social, etc.
An aspirant or a peson willing to learn a type or style of Yoga should be vary clear about his/her need and purpose of pursuing the same. Once the need and purpose are clear, type and style of Yoga can be recommended by contributors of this forum.
So, be clear about your need and purpose of doing Yoga, rather than distracting yourself before.
[QUOTE=guitarz_dave;78529]That sounds uncharacteristic of P.Y. from his book, which I have read cover-to-cover. Although from reading the online books by Ennio Nimis which another person in our forum shared, I guess it must be the case (and it sounded like the traditional control issues from organized religion). What I can share from my interests as a musician is that the best players always share their knowledge, which creates a good dynamic, and also spurs them to continually increase their skills/knowledge. I certainly appreciate everyone in our forum who shares their knowledge and experience, which is how I understand P.Y. lived his life by also doing so.[/QUOTE]
read Yogananda Sanga written by his friend Satyananda Giri not Saraswati and his brother in the SRF book Mejda the events of P.Y.'s life most certainly did happen but the editors @ SRF have taken creative liberty to romanticize them and make the stories larger than life even in cases where they already were pretty fantastic.
Just to be clear this in no way diminishes P.Y. in fact I enjoy the stories more for the embellishment which caused me to read other books published by friends and family.
Something else I would like to point out I have had some pretty amazing events in my life and often wondered why they were not as incredible as the ones in AOY.
After reading the version of the events recounted by eye witnesses I realized the ones I have had are very similar to the ones I have read about without the extra sugar coating on top. Strangely enough that brought the whole topic to rest for me.
I think allot of people are very quick to jump the gun in either direction and say P.Y. was a fraud or that he is the end all and be all. As usual somewhere in-between lies the truth.
All in all Paramahansa Yogananda was a remarkable person and if he were here in the flesh today I would invite him to my home for dinner as an honored guest.
SRF is not P.Y. it is a church that he started. It was where I started and I am grateful for their continuing his work but I do not fit with SRF. I have nothing negative to say about SRF either, just not for me.
I think one of the most staggering of the miracles/powers AOY describes is when an entire palace made out of gold is materialized for PY’s initiation! I don’t doubt that it could happen given my understanding of Vedic physics and quantum physics, but it just sounds far too fantastic to be real and given that SRF have exaggerated so many other claims and made many spurious claims of Jesus Christ, I am inclined to disbelieve.
I was initated at the KYI Ashram in Rishikesh i India by a plump looking guru, and I am such a bad initiate I have actually forgotten his name and even how the guy looked. He was a busy man, touring India and the world offering initiations. I jumped at the chance to get initiated formally into Kriya Yoga. I had to quickly prepare for the 5 offerings, but then I realized at the initiation ceremony they were mainly interested in the monetary donation, the fruit we all shared with one another. I can honestly say I felt nothing during the initiation. It all seemed to be a lot of hocus pocus. Some people getting the initiation however got so emotional.
He was a celebrity of sorts in KYI and everybody was chasing him to get an audience with him, but he was too busy or he was resting. Again, I will be honest, I did not detect anything extraordinary about the man. He just seemed like a regular Indian fat man, except wearing guru’s clothes. I also was not impressed by his intellectual and oratory skills.
Prior to that I was initiated into the Ananda-marga tantra tradition. The first initiation I definitely did feel the consciousness of my acharya(dada) surround me. Unfortunately, we fell out later on. I have no ill feelings towards him though, he certainly had some level of attainment, but he had an ego to match it. He seemed to love the sound of his own voice and tell us students we were wrong when testing our knowledge, even if we told him the right answer only in our own words.
I’ve generally built up quite a bad taste for spiritual groups from my experiences. It is certainly a luxury worth having if you can find a legitimate spiritual master to mentor you and a legitimate group, but the price of finding one in terms of investment of time, energy and money and still not being guaranteed one is not worth it. It is better to go DIY.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;78904]I was initated at the KYI Ashram in Rishikesh i India by a plump looking guru, and I am such a bad initiate I have actually forgotten his name and even how the guy looked. He was a busy man, touring India and the world offering initiations. I jumped at the chance to get initiated formally into Kriya Yoga. I had to quickly prepare for the 5 offerings, but then I realized at the initiation ceremony they were mainly interested in the monetary donation, the fruit we all shared with one another. I can honestly say I felt nothing during the initiation. It all seemed to be a lot of hocus pocus. Some people getting the initiation however got so emotional.
He was a celebrity of sorts in KYI and everybody was chasing him to get an audience with him, but he was too busy or he was resting. Again, I will be honest, I did not detect anything extraordinary about the man. He just seemed like a regular Indian fat man, except wearing guru’s clothes. I also was not impressed by his intellectual and oratory skills.
Prior to that I was initiated into the Ananda-marga tantra tradition. The first initiation I definitely did feel the consciousness of my acharya(dada) surround me. Unfortunately, we fell out later on. I have no ill feelings towards him though, he certainly had some level of attainment, but he had an ego to match it. He seemed to love the sound of his own voice and tell us students we were wrong when testing our knowledge, even if we told him the right answer only in our own words.
I’ve generally built up quite a bad taste for spiritual groups from my experiences. It is certainly a luxury worth having if you can find a legitimate spiritual master to mentor you and a legitimate group, but the price of finding one in terms of investment of time, energy and money and still not being guaranteed one is not worth it. It is better to go DIY.[/QUOTE]
WARNING EXTREMELY LONG REPLY**
When it comes to KYI I am not surprised this is a huge world wide orginization. When did you become initiated? This is the exact problem with groups of any kind and is exactly why forming organizations around Kriya Yoga is forbidden by Lahiri Mahasaya.
When I met the Swami’s that initiated me as linked in a previous post. Swami Atmavidyananda Giri and his assistant Swami Prabuddhananda Giri who is still in training the last we communicated. I looked them in the eye and liked the people I saw looking back at me from deep within.
To me it was as if I were in the company of old family members I had not seen in a very, very long time. I still gave them a hard time though.
Organized anything is man made and as such is false. I also know the Kriya Yoga they teach now in 2012 has been modified by the current leader of the organization it is not the same as was taught by the founder.
I also know that it is different from what was originally taught by P.Y. in the 1920’s and 1930’s. I have the lessons from America and India.
It is different from what those who run SRF now teach I have these lessons as well since the late 1980’s early 1990’s which is most certainly different from what P.Y. originally taught. SRF should be ashamed of themselves really, but there you have it a group, even worse a Church.
It is different than what is currently being taught by Chatterjee in india Spelling? and it is different than what is being taught by Teachers descended from the line currently living in America.
It is also different from What Shibendu teaches.
All the other Kriya groups I have mentioned teach things very close to being the same. SRF has stripped it down the most and Shibendu well nothing good to say so … mouth shut.
KYI Group Politics:
For example when Swami Prabuddhananda Giri was asked a question by a student he misunderstood the question due to the language barrier and misinterpreted her as having asked why something was being taught a certain way.
His immediate answer was because this is the way Master Prajnananda has told me to teach and this is the way I teach it.
This is a prime example of group indoctrination for the masses, Yes I heard all the typical things every Kriya group says it is like a broken record they all subscribe to.
The monks look like parrots while saying these things and they are tired of saying them too, but they are bound to do so by program development for the masses.
There is a reason for this though many asked such shallow questions like do you grow your own food Etc… and so on. So these groups are catering to a very diverse crowd of people in every instance.
Organizations are groups of people working for a common goal which all to often is just preserving a way of life they have grown accustomed to.
Nothing wrong with that we householders do the same by maintaining our marriages our homes our employment. No matter what you do unless you live in the jungle by yourself or in a cave you will be required to play politics of some kind to get along with your fellows whomever they may be. If you doubt this visualize driving down the street in the opposite direction as everyone else you are not going to have a good time of it. ( Please nobody try this )
Now that being said this can cause a big problem for spiritual aspirants when a person holds a position that is not by merit but bureaucracy or popularity of personality.
It gets even worse when the person is elevated in the eyes of others. Then along comes a true seeker with a keen mind such as your own and he sees right through this falsely appointed person and the next thing you know bad disappointment is had after spending huge sums of money traveling to the other side of the planet hoping to meet the real thing.
Surya Deva I am very sorry to hear of this non experience you had. You just proved my point though you got a show for your admission ticket it sounds like the price was way too high though.
Going to India was likely a huge mistake as you put yourself right into the land of their acute cultural dominance. In America they have to be of a better caliber to make the grade we do not go along with the Malarky as easily especially after the 1960’s,1970’s & 1980’s legacy of B.S. our elders left us to chew on with the Limo riding false Guru’s.
Yes I know this is a loooong post but this is important.
When I went to another city in America the country where I live, I was fully expecting to have wasted money on expensive Hotel rooms and having nothing to show for it other than the experience of some more frauds like I found in CSA.
I challenged them in public during the free open lecture that is given before anyone decides to participate in initiation.
I asked questions in public like: How many initiations are there in your lineage?
How do you know it is time to renounce the householder life and become a monastic?
How are you certain what you are doing is not just running away from the world?
Why would anyone want to practice the Kriya Yoga you teach?
They asked me Why are you here? I replied because I am curious, I want to find out if what you have to teach is real or not.
In each instance not only did I find these men to be of good character but tolerant and patient and well informed as well. They could have singled me out and tossed me out of there but they did not. What they did was go very deeply into my questions and give very correct answers concerning Kriya Yoga and answered in a very sincere way.
I spoke to them in private prior to taking initiation and let them know where I was coming from I let them know I was previously initiated into Kriya Yoga by SRF and later by Roy Eugene Davis of CSA.
We spoke of this and pretty much laid it on the line I did not want to be fooled around with. They still welcomed me to participate.
I was so impressed by their composure and honesty in dealing with me I decided to take initiation from them.
I believe that my straight forwardness made for a better experience for everyone and the monks really worked hard to give good initiation and training to all who took initiation.
Swami Atmavidyananda Giri and I got along very well, we could communicate and finish each others sentences and often with just a nod or a look across the room we instantly understood each other. This was very nice as I have had this type of rapport with only a few others in this life and in each instance they were very near and dear to me.
After initiation and the fist practice of Kriya Yoga Swami Atmavidyananda Giri came to me in private and said what do you think? Is it like what you have learned before to which I replied no sir. This is much more whole & complete may I ask you a question?
To which he replied yes please do, (the whole time we were talking our eyes were in constant communication between us there was the feeling of student and teacher very honest and very deep.) I said sir with not just a little bit of anguish why did Paramahansji write in his autobiography the description of Kriya Yoga Pranayama proper the way he did and then teach something differently in America?
What I have learned from you today is much more like what he described and more complex.
Swami Atmavidyananda Giri replied. When Parmahansaji was teaching in America in the 1920’s just getting people to sit on the floor was thought of as insane so over time he tailored Kriya Yoga to the people of the times who really were not even ready to accept sitting on a floor much less many other things.
He also Said by the time Paramahamsa Hariharananda arrived in the 1970’s he looked around and saw the people were ready for more and said lets share it all they are ready for more now.
I could see he still held this Dear Master in his heart in a very special place remembering him.
When it came time for me to leave as I had a long drive ahead of me and storms to drive through for several hours.
I said my Goodbyes to Swami Prabuddhananda Giri first as Swami Atmavidyananda Giri was busy with others wanting to talk to him. No one seemed to want to talk to the assistant who also taught us, they wanted to see the boss. People are so inconsiderate sometimes. This is a warm, genuine, kind & gentle person fully deserving of thanks after teaching all of us so much.
I thanked Swami Prabuddhananda Giri for his teaching and I felt very sad to say goodbye he knew this and did something I think is fairly uncharacteristic for a Swami and actually patted me on the back letting me know it was ok. I knew at the time he was in full Kechari as he spends most of his time thusly and only speaks when needed or while teaching. Having Achieved Kechari myself I understand why.
I then spoke with some other Indian people all very nice and friendly they invited me to join them for group meditations. These were no Monastics but fellow householders and devout Kriyavan’s for over 11 years.
Swami Atmavidyananda Giri was being asked many silly questions by people trying to validate their experiences like the one fellow talking about seeing light in his forehead and getting a headache from it. etc… and so on I could see he was being very polite but was inwardly praying for someone to interrupt this persons ramblings.
I waited to speak to him and thanked him for his teachings again our eyes were locked in silent communication and we had a very heart felt silent rapport between us.
I was very sad to say goodbye, that was how much it felt like family being with these monks even typing these words till this day brings tears to my eyes. This reminds me of my first day in Kindergarten when I was 5 years old going off to school missing my Mother. This is the feeling if anyone can relate to that. This is a deep aching heart felt throat closing feeling it hurts and makes my eyes burn with tears just reliving it.
So yes I had a very emotional reaction which is wholly uncharacteristic for me to say the least.
He asked me to stay for a little while longer, he was sincere in asking but I looked inside myself and realized it was time for me to go home I was exhausted from the last 3 days and did not want to ruin a great experience by pushing myself too hard with a long drive in foul weather ahead of me and work the next day. So I replied Thank you but for me it is now time to go.
With a kind nod of his head and a look of acceptance in his eye, I left with his blessings and my life has been much different and better ever since.
So I really do stand by what I have written in the past it is not the Orginization that counts it is the person doing the initiating that matters most.
Surya Deva I wholeheartedly recommend that you consider meeting with Swami Atmavidyananda Giri and ask for his initiation. You might be surprised by what you missed in India.
Swami Atmavidyananda Giri is very approachable, friendly and sincere. Most of all I think he is whom you missed meeting when you went to India. He is based here in the United States at the Ashram in Homestead Florida.
Whomever made it this far Thank you for reading.
Thank you for that reply Seeking and recommendation. Reading your description of Swami Atmavidyanand Giri has certainly piqued my interest, and I have already been acquanited with the tradition when I purchased Swami Hariharananda’s book, “Kriya Yoga” and interestingly somebody had recommended me visiting their ashram. However, I had gone to India for only 6 months, so I did not have enough time to travel all over India, I confined myself mostly in the North. I wouldn’t say my journey to India was a total waste of time, because my goals were modest given the timeframe I was allowed, to see which path was correct for me. I also ended up reading more extensively into Vedanta and attending many Vedanta ashrams and consulted with Vedanta teachers. Unfortunately, I did not meet any gurus during this trip, although many claiming to be gurus.
For the time being, I have decided I am going to do this by myself. I don’t have money to fund a trip to US(Although there is a UK branch of the Kriya Yoga organization you are indicating, which I might check out) Theoretically, it can be done all by yourself, but you need to work a lot harder and keep yourself determined and committed. Some people for instance cannot study without a proper study environment like a school or library, while others are self-taught. Besides, my Yoga is a lot more eclectic, broad and flexible than any specific Yoga taught by any organization. I mix and match from every tradition while keeping Patanjali’s Ashtanga Kriya Yoga as my basic structure. I have picked up many techniques over the years from books and attending Yoga groups. Incidentally, I began my spirituality with Raja Yoga from the BKS, which teaches the technique of third eye gazing. I then graduated it to Tantra yoga from Anandamarga Yoga, where I learned the technique of hamso pranayama and visualization. After this I picked up several techniques from different traditions Gnosticism of Samuel, Vipassana Meditation from esoteric Buddhism, Kriya pranayama and chakara dharanas from Kriya Yoga(I don’t really practice the others, this one is sufficient for me) and more recently the goldmine of techniques from the BSY books. Very recently, the entire hermetic system of Franz Bardon has come into my consciousness. I am really in no need of further techniques for now, now it is just a case of devising a system and beginning practice proper. I am still on my LHP path for now, and my desires especially for sex are still too strong for me to commit.
Here take a look at this link the video will give you some idea of Swami Atmavidyanand Giri’s personality.
Swami Hariharananda’s book, “Kriya Yoga” is one of the better publications around. I always get fresh insights from it.
I’ve been thinking about the proliferation of “gurus” around the western world. Maybe it’s the same in the east. There are certainly many frauds, taking advantage of the rising interest in spirituallity. One must be discerning indeed to pick his way thru the minefield of falsity. However. I also believe that there are many true holy men who have made their way into circulation, almost as though the forces of Spirit and Truth were mobilizing and sending forth the emissaries of salvation. I believe that the world is on the very cliff-edge of profound events and changes. I also believe that God’s time has come for the raising of the collective consciousness in the face of worldwide upheaval. Go into the silence…
[QUOTE=Dr Baba;79041]I’ve been thinking about the proliferation of “gurus” around the western world. Maybe it’s the same in the east. There are certainly many frauds, taking advantage of the rising interest in spirituallity. One must be discerning indeed to pick his way thru the minefield of falsity. However. I also believe that there are many true holy men who have made their way into circulation, almost as though the forces of Spirit and Truth were mobilizing and sending forth the emissaries of salvation. I believe that the world is on the very cliff-edge of profound events and changes. I also believe that God’s time has come for the raising of the collective consciousness in the face of worldwide upheaval. Go into the silence…[/QUOTE]
are speaking about your own internal changes and will fully realize this only after the fact. Every sort of human is alive and being born today, the same baby being born in ancient Rome is being born today.
The most spiritually depraved murderer and rapist is here along the Holiest of the Holy. Every level of being is being expressed in this world at the same time.
Lahiri Mahasaya used to say no one is evil mind turned outwards from Kutastha is evil.
Humanity on the whole is incredibly diverse and impossible to lump sum. Those practicing Kriya Yoga are the ones whom are on the cliff edge of profound changes.
Just watch you will see.
interesting perspective. Makes sense. I wasn;t suggesting that anyone is evil. I’ve always believed that each human is equipped with the propensities for both good and evil, and that his path is governed by his choices. I believe the most depraved criminal is destined for ecstatice reunion with God - but it may take him a while. Hitler is going to Heaven but it may take him more lifetimes than Ghandi
Guru is simply a teacher.
Maybe you could say guru is like saying a master. Or PhD.
But. This is my personal opinion.
I was reffering to my examples concerning people.