Soul & body conversation

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

[quote=Nichole;8796]Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?[/quote]

Nice topic Nichole.

In my experience it is the body that is within the soul. Not an individual soul attaching to a body. All phenomena is contained and happens within consciousness, or as you might call it: soul.

All thoughts about an individual soul ultimately don’t hold any substantial value either. These experiences and sensations of being an individual personal identity, or even an individual soul, simply vanish from the angle-less perception of Free Awareness. [U]Being[/U] simply is being equally in all experiences.

So I feel that whether we belief in an individual soul or not, these beliefs and the actual experiences that go with it, vanish like dreams before the pure light of truth and unity that is all pervasive. There is no benefit in holding on to these points of view of any individual existing anywhere. The most beneficial and immediate freedom is realized to be already here when we acknowledge the fact that there is only One. Within that one many forms seem to appear, but they too are just that One.

So too is the body simply an appearance and disappearance within the pure unity of awareness. There is no identity of individual substance to be found anywhere. Only through our beliefs and thoughts/emotions and sensations is there duality and identity of any kind, whether bodily or soul-like. Both are like waves on the ocean, like rays of the sun, and like space within space. There is nothing to uphold nor has there ever been anything upheld. There is nothing to define for all is simply Free Awareness. Whether described and labelled or not, all is but a dream within awareness, existing of nothing but pure and spacious awareness.

To go into details of what we are as individuals and how we came about, is just like adding space to space, it doesn’t lead us anywhere. If anything, it only keeps us from recognizing what we already are. Which is impersonal and universal Love/Awareness. Soul or no Soul, both are just concepts and experiences within the vastness of Awareness.

Just for a second, let go of all you belief to be, let all these beliefs about soul, karma, bodies, atman etc be. In that peace of letting it be for even just a moment, you will see that none of these concepts ever have any substance or power over the aware spaciousness that you are, you are always free from their definitions. That which is free and aware is what you truly are and it does not need any defining or explaining or appointing yourself an identity to any concept whatsoever. Be free from whatever you have been taught and you will find yourself, at least for that moment.

Let’s not get lost and keep it simple. Let us be as we are, free and undefined. Again and again untill this Free Awareness is our primary state of being and perceiving.

Love,
Bentinho.

#2

[quote=Bentinho Massaro;22427]Nice topic Nichole.

To go into details of what we are as individuals and how we came about, is just like adding space to space, it doesn’t lead us anywhere. Love,
Bentinho.[/quote]

I can’t agree with that. Right knowledge is pretty much important, even if you are ultimately right about that it needs to be conscious personal expereince, awareness, and not dry infrormations in our heads.

Ever had an intuition about the true nature of something ? I do not mean the absolute, but just an intuition of facts of life, or relations between certain things ? I am sure you did. Imagine this faculty enhanced and became the tool of knowledge.

You either do not know, or you underestimate the deepest longing of the soul for knowledge, basis for for right action, right human endeavour.

Laya yoga, or dissolution of mind, is just one of the many paths. And those who suppose after the dissolution of mind, there is no soul-life, are mistaken. The whole thoughtless state thing is absolutley overestimated by so many people, who do not even take the effort to learn to think objectively. I do not blame them, there are other paths.

Transcendence comes through perfection of mind. There is no easy way to jump through this phase. Or, there might be, using other faculties of the soul, like feeling, or will, but this does not rule out jnana as a perfectly walkable and useful path. I am not saying it is a requirement, because people’s karmas are manyfold, yet, it is the most useful way for many - or few, depends on where we look at it from.

I believe in the practicality of spiritual life. I believe in knowledge of the little things, and how they are enfold form universal wisdom. I believe in the way of taking small steps and realizing more and more the grandour of creation. I believe that even if the sensorial world is maya, illusion it is so just because it is the scene we see, behind higher powers, forces, spiritual laws operate. I do not care about philosophical debates if these are yet veils of the inexprimable Purusha. Instead a dry concept in my head, I want to know these for what they are, and realize myself if they are maya or not. Thus, I find totally useless the monist attitude “There is only one God, everything else is non-important”. It does not matter if this thought is dressed in other words, like Absolute, Purusha, Awarness, Self, it is still monism.

I do beleive in small efforts regarding diet, physical and psychic health (although we all die), I do believe in the transforming, purifying and rising power of right thoughts, feelings and actions. I do beleive in everything what has been createed as part of universal human culture, and it’s right to existence. I do believe in the light of reason, as a basic human faculty.
I do believe in human freedom consisting of knowing the reasons for our actions, freedom we only find following our purest ideals. Not ideals of blind fate, but ideals emerging from the depths of an aspiring soul, not as an outer conditioning, but as reaction of a clear conscience facing the world.

I am sure, this latter ability is along what you try to say - but please do not be exclusive, or radical - you have the right for an exclusive opinion, but you cannot extend it on others. The greatness of human soul is often expressed in the power of following apparently foolish things - and while you are right that these foolish things might not matter much, the dedication to them does matter a lot, nurtures, tries, tests souls, and makes them better.

#3

Hey Hubert,

Well you seem to always slightly misunderstand me, but that’s okay, for my last post was simply an expression of the love that is here rather than an well filtered instruction tutorial. So I understand that I was not making myself very clear in a scientific way.

Some thing I’d like to clarify is that I am not exclusive. In fact what I was saying is that all-inclusiveness is the way to go. I am all for all-inclusiveness. Like I said before, there is no thought, action or form that is impure or that needs to be examined for the sake of modification. Because one thought is there one moment, and then there is another thought. It is not like you can take one thought and change its substance into another thought, that just becomes an entirely new thought, not a modified old one.

My message was simply that even though the path of knowledge has definitely been my path, it has never liberated me. I wanted perfect understanding of spirituality and my true nature. I wanted it so badly that it drove me crazy at times, completely frustrated. It was only when I started to really let things be, including my knowledge, that I found the freedom and overflowing love that was already here, which I was trying to ‘get at’ by gaining perfect mental understanding. It is just not possible to know your true nature merely by knowledge. It can lead you there surely, but it is not the knowledge that will make you realize, it is the being completely fed up with your knowledge, after which you let everything be as it is, that you will know. So then it might seem like the knowledge took you there, but is was simply the letting be of all focus.

So I am not saying discard the very tool of knowledge, I am not saying dissolve the mind, not at all. In that you misinterpret me. I say let everything be there as it is, nothing is wrong, all is already free and perfect. My message is simply this: What we are so anxiously looking for by means of elaborating, describing and thinking about it, is right here under our noses! We can never create or attain it, it is not in a state we ‘reach’, it is just present without our help, completely free regardless of what we do or think about it.

How to realize this? By simply letting our thoughts and knowledge and emotions be as they are, without appointing them any value. Do this again and again, just for short periods at a time and you will see the openness that you are more and more.

From this openness you will also see that no thought-form has any content really. This is not monism, this is simply seeing the true nature of phenomena. Thus seeing this, you will be less likely fooled by them the next time they arise.

What do I mean by they have no content? I mean that they do not exist in the way we belief them to exist. For example frustration arises. We automatically take the frustration to be something in and of itself and we belief we need to either change it, act it out or suppress it. We belief that it has a nature of its own, a power or meaning of some kind, that it belongs to an fictitious “I” or sense of self. This is Maya. This is the only thing we need to understand: That there is no identity or individual meaning in any appearance whatsoever. It is all pure and free awareness. So yes there is a short-cut, there definitely is. If you are willing to take it I can help you to experience it yourself, within little time. If so then you know how to reach me. Ultimate wisdom is already present within you. A wisdom that could never be attained through years of practicing and studying rightful knowledge. Simply because knowledge is lacking Love and a overview.

So instead of believing in the independent existence of these thought forms, we can just let them be and experience the spacious openness in which they exist. That spacious presence is our true nature. From that perspective which is really the only perspective that is not really a perspective, since it does not look from any single point, is just is, you will see how all these thoughts and emotions and knowledge and rightful deeds and rightful knowledge versus false deeds and false knowledge is all just that single play of consciousness. There is no identity or value in any of them! They do not exist separately from awareness. You cannot pull them out of awareness. This last fact simply proofs that every point of reference we use, every thought and emotion we know is completely dependent and exists of nothing but awareness.

When we see this clearly in our own experience, by just relaxing as we are, open awareness, again and again until these moments become more natural and obvious, we will realize that there is nothing to attain, nothing to achieve, nothing to rightfully know about life. There are no mistakes we ever made, there is no wrong or right knowing or doing. All is equally space-like in and as awareness.

I am not excluding anything with this, I am simply stating a simply truth that you can easily see for yourself, if you are willing to just let your opinions and ideas be for a second.

I am not stating my personal ideas here, I am not promoting any sort of system that is against other systems, I am simply explaining that which is beyond concepts and can only be understood if you just relax as you are, free from your belief in whatever appears. Again and again, be at ease as you are, openly aware without believing in your ideas for just a few seconds.

A few of these moments will clearly make you realize how awareness includes everything, but is beyond and untouchable by everything that appears within it. You will know how awareness is beyond any state of mind induced or attained by meditation or rightful knowledge. It is eternally free and nothing that we ever do and no conclusion we ever come to through knowledge will create that awareness for us, it is simply here free from any doing. Yet it contains all doing.

Just try it right now, just notice your mind is focusing itself on all sort of content within itself, ideas, thoughts, feelings, resistance perhaps, and when you notice that, just relax your focus on these contents of the mind and rest as the peaceful nature/presence/space/openness in which they exist. Just let them be without acting or reacting on them. Don’t do anything with them just remain the open ease that you are, just for a moment repeatedly!

You will see, in good time, that the body too is simply resting as awareness within awareness. It does not have an independent existence, nature or identity. It relies completely on awareness.

But just try the moments if you are willing.

Love,
B.

#4

Of all the unnatural and man-made up stories of life I have ever seen, this quote is definitely the craziest and most unnatural explanation of all of them. This is the pinnacle of being clouded by belief systems. No offense meant to anyone here, but that quote sounds like it comes straight from a fairy-tale story for a fantasy film.

Life is simple and very natural in all its actions. It does not have to take any detours. There is no separate entity in the rain or in any cell of sperm. They are all pervaded and consist only of this one presence of awareness. So yes they are all alive as you would put it, but not in an individual sense. Eventually all sense of individuality is simply that: A sense within awareness. It is nothing real or substantial in its own right. To belief in any form of individuality is to make a big assumption about life and live your life based on that lie.

The more complicated the theories get, the more clouded they often are by visions, beliefs, fear, tradition and religion. The more additional stuff, entities, states of mind, heavens & hell’s, do’s & don’t do’s are included in the descriptions, the more this indicates that it is the expression not of a simple, free man of awareness but that it comes from human fantasy, human contrivance. To belief in any of such stories won’t do anyone any good. It is so highly unpractical and it makes you see life through a spiritually incorrect filter of stories everywhere about who we are and where we came from.

I practically beg of anyone not to take on such stories. Such stories have been and are still blinding millions of spiritual seekers worldwide. They are really harmful in the sense of preventing you from naturally seeing what you are. Instead of taking on a belief or description of who you are, simply belief nothing about yourself but just open your awareness to what is already present and explore that presence as it is right here right now. The presence of you being here is all you have. There is noting more pure and simple than that. No story is ever discovered there and all makes perfect sense when abiding in the nature that you are. Nature’s natural intelligence goes far beyond human fantasy. Nature tends to keep things most simple and direct.

The more fluff and stuff there is in these stories they tell you, the harder you should run away. :slight_smile:

Love,
Bentinho

#5

What quote ? I think I missed it.

It is clear to me now, form your recent post, that you’re not free from prejudice, in fact, you are far from that state. It is pointless to talk to such minds (yes, there are others here) - as knowledge will come to them through his own terms, and not by the arbitrary criteria they put up about what this knowledge is, or can be. Indeed, the greatest obstacle is one’s own mind.

There is quite a difference between the needs of a naive mind inclined towards fantasy - although I do not judge that at all, as it is characteristic to children - indeed, many adult minds are totally dried up, and cemented in a lifeless abtsract though life - but again, there is a difference between naive beleives or abundance of fantasy, and a belief based on the comprehesnible presentation of a seer. Yes, there are persons developed enough to have first hand expereience of all what has been presented as spiritual entities, angels, gods, higher lokas, depending on tradition. Ancient art, civilization and culture is simply not comprehensible without admitting the existence of a certain intuition, or dim clairvoyance in what these higher worlds, entities were not product of imagination, or fantasy, but truths came upon directly. That persons exist today for whom this clairvoyance, seership, is consciously available, is fact. People who reject these truths reject it because they are incapable to have any relation to them, other than representing them in a gross, sensorial way - and of course that in this case we only arrive to the naive pictures of tradititional exoteric religion. Even the latter are not totally worthless, as regardless of the nature of the image, they work on the soul by the qualities attributed to them, or awoken by them. Thus, everything has a reason for existence, and is food for thought. By thought I mean a deeper connection to things than usually is meant - usually the thinking process is a superficial process of jumping from one sensorial thought to another. Thinking in reality is more - and not something separated form one’s soul activity (emotional, and willing nature of man).

I see now, that it is a mistake hoping that one could arrive to any opening to what I tried to present lately - and if I think of the process what took me where I am now, I must admit it took a lot more effort and time (decades) what one can expect form a perfect stranger, and through this media. Because of this, I must arrive to the conclusion, that I do more harm, than good, potentially preventing many from a better understanding what, I am sure will come to them in time, by presenting truths what they are not yet ready to recieve. Thus, from now on, I will let the dear members of this forum, whom I met and grown fond of, to the wisdom of their own karmas, one what I perhaps did not trust enough, and perhaps it was my lack of humility to think that I could make a difference.

#6

[quote=Hubert;22491]What quote ? I think I missed it.

It is clear to me now, form your recent post, that you’re not free from prejudice, in fact, you are far from that state. It is pointless to talk to such minds (yes, there are others here) - as knowledge will come to them through his own terms, and not by the arbitrary criteria they put up about what this knowledge is, or can be. Indeed, the greatest obstacle is one’s own mind.
[/quote]

Hey Hubert,

Somebody posted something before my previous post, but that post has now been deleted.

Let me try to explain to you something about prejudice, which you are free to leave alone. It is not prejudice that is a blinding something. It is the belief in prejudice that is blinding. It is the thought: “Oh I cannot have prejudices because that’s not pure” that is binding us from seeing that even prejudice, is nothing but purity.

You say the mind is one’s greatest obstacle. I don’t agree with that. From where I see things, there is no obstacle to freedom, because all is simply happening within that freedom. It is untouched and unaltered in any way and by any means. So in some situation the most horrific thoughts and prejudices could appear within my mind, but they don’t mean anything, I naturally see them as they are, pure, free and void of meaning or implication of any sort. There is only the pure presence of the here and now awareness that is real.

This is true freedom, because it is not limited to being trained as being a good spiritual person. It does not depend on whether you have thoughts or whether you don’t have thoughts, it does not depend on whether you have prejudices or whether you don’t have prejudices, all are equally empty in the light of restful being. So there is nothing that can bother me, since I see that it is all pure space. In everything I see the same presence of awareness. This is true freedom because it is not depended on being in any kind of state or doing any sort of thing. It is completely transcendental. Forever free.

And that is what you are as well, completely free right now. The only reason why you may not see it at this point, is because you belief in the judgments of your mind. As they appear, you belief in them and you belief you need to do anything with them, react to them, or agree with them. All this knowledge you are having is simply empty of anything. As it appears, just see that there is always an awareness accompanying the thought or emotion.

That stability in which all else is projected, in which all comes and goes, that stability is you and it is never achieved. It is already here.

Love,
Bentinho.

#7

Yes, but there is a great difference of being aware of frustration, for example, and being aware of the frustration AND knowing it’s cause ! Because no matter how powerful one’s self suggestion about the freedom of awareness, frustration and other unpleasent expereinces will not subside by simply being aware of them. They will subside by knowing their cause, and eliminating the cause. You say, that pure awarness is enough to eliminate the cause of all frustrations, but I pretty much doubt that. It is not enough to be aware of the thorn in one’s foot, one has to take it out in order to stop the pain. Thus, while I give full credit of a clear, unprejudiced, free from illusion awarness as a tool of asessing various states of mind, in itself is not enough, but needs to be complemented by actions, and actions are based on knowledge and understanding.

On a philosophical level, you might say, that ultimate awarness will make all expereinces appear as illusory, and I might even agree, yet because I am not capable of this awarness while they are cutting my leg of with a blunt saw without anastethics, I will better try to avoid this latter situation. And to avoid it, I need to know where do they perform such terrible activities, so I will not go there.

I am trying to justify the practical need for right knowledge here, and I care little for the ultimate Truth or Freedom, because as long as I have legs to be cut off, I am concerned about them. Perhaps you think your legs are safe … but are you sure ? I would not bet on it. This again is interesting, because you now what I have found ? There is no place to run ! They will get you, sooner or later - but why state it in such a nice forum - that’s depressing and we do not want the depressing truth, we want the yoga high. That feels so good, makes us forget the saws outthere. Unquestionable truth for anyone with a bit of life experience - yet it is tabu. Well, without this kind of right knowledge, awareness means nothing.

Remember, I never said you are not right - but just what you teach, is not enough. Or lacks practicality in face of so many problems of our existence (what again, might appear illusory until they cut to your own flesh - and that is the test of one’s freedom and awareness).

PS. You should see by now that you are talking to me in vain. :slight_smile:

#8

[QUOTE=Bentinho Massaro;22499] From where I see things[/QUOTE]

Can everyone of us see from your perspective ? Think.

Mahatma Gandhi once said “God comes to the hungry in the form of food”. A poor & hungry person doesn’t need lessons on self awareness & yoga & spirituality.

Each individual is evolving in his/her own way in this world, so let us recognize and encourage each other rather than being critical about each other.

#9

Can everyone of us see from your perspective ? Think.
Yes everyone can see from my perspective, simply because it is not my perspective. If you just let go of all thoughts and beliefs for just a moment, you will notice that there is an alertness, a presence. That presence is the presence of awareness and once you have identified yourself with this plenty of times for this experience to stabilize itself and become your primary state of experience, this open freedom of being that you are, then you will see what I see. So it is the [I]only[/I] perspective in fact that is accessible to everyone. It is the only thing everything shares in common. All the rest is just that same presence. All forms are the formless.
[U]
As for your response Hubert:[/U]

I can guarantee you that you will still be able to feel utterly free as awareness when they start sawing your legs of. Does that mean you won’t feel pain, fright or emotions? You will feel those I am pretty sure, haha. But you will still be undisturbed in your essence. BUT! A requirement for this is to have already familiarized yourself with this freedom before. Only if it is already your primary state of experiencing will you be able to see even the extreme situations as equal.

And you say that simply being aware of painful states and emotions will not rid you of them. But my dear friend, that is not my message. My message is quite the opposite: free yourself from the desire to wanting to rid yourself of anything whatsoever. How? by just seeing in every situation that awareness is right there, unchangeable by anything that’s being displayed within it.

You see, I can be frustrated and frightened, that does not need to go away at all. I can just let it be as it is and see it clearly for what it is: Pure freedom. I do not need to get rid of anything. There is no cause or source to anything. There is no past that is responsible for what you feel now. What you feel now is simply what you feel now. And the next moment it is not. Then maybe it comes again, and then again it is not. Nothing there at all like a storehouse of causes and effects. Once you can decisively see beyond our labels you will know everything as equal presence of awareness. So good and bad they lose their power. Whether still and silent in the mind or completely disturbed by all sorts of thoughts and activity, you will remain unflinching. You will remain utterly stable as the indestructible awareness that you are. Nothing needs to go or come, simply because awareness is always beyond anything and it does not depend on any emotion to be gone or present. It does not depend on any state to be here or not. Whether there is something or nothing, awareness is aware of both. It is also the very basis of both. They never had their own independent nature or identity.

If you wish for yourself that this becomes your experience, then please don’t emphasize your thinking about this too much, don’t search for the faults, or the wrongs and the rights. Knowledge really means nothing from this freedom and wisdom. You see, the thing is this: We really don’t need thinking to come to a definitive and clear conclusion or discovery about any thing. It is the experiential understanding of the presence of awareness that will make us able and free to know things fully as they are and present themselves and know how to best handle any situation, without the need of thought!

That does not mean thought has to be silenced before we can act and experience from this natural perfect awareness. We may have thoughts coming and going all the time, that free presence that is there when there is no thought, is still there when there is thought. We just need to learn to identify the presence of awareness in all situations. After doing this and stabilizing the experience of freedom, we will hardly notice these thoughts and emotions even if they are there. like the light of the sun outshines the light of the stars during the day. Does this mean that the stars have to be eliminated before the sun can shine and be seen? No, as soon as we start to just look at the sun and see that it is already present, we will see that the stars (thoughts/emotions/belief systems), even though they may or may not be there, will lose their power over us. Awareness simply outshines everything else. Which makes sense since it[I] is[/I] everything else.

In the same way if we just identify in each and every situation, as often as we remind ourselves to do so, the awareness that is aware of the entire situation, then this will become our primary state of experiencing before long. Just keep at it like this, identify awareness throughout every situation, whether your leg is being cut of or whether you are meditating or doing yoga. Awareness is equally present in both situations. We truly only need to acknowledge the already present awareness in any given situation, that is all! Some situations might be easier to start with, but when you’ve reached the point in which you see everything clearly for what it truly is, there is peace and freedom regardless of circumstance. Even as they cut of your leg, you will be completely at ease.

Awareness isn’t something that exists in one place separate from thoughts and emotions. It is the very basis of every situation and appearance, no matter how horrific or saintly. To identify this basis of every experience again and again will make this a second nature before long. It will become natural to notice and recognize awareness. When this happens, when this recognition becomes natural and automatic in a way, you will be a free man. Nothing else is needed. Nothing is there to attain through practice or knowledge. All is already free. We just need to recognize it :).

Of course it is your choice to choose for seeking after more refined knowledge years after years. It is your choice to say: “Hey, even though he may be right and I recognize truth in it, I still choose to seek for achievement and improvement of mind.” So if that remains your choice that is completely fine of course. Just want you to know again that if you ever feel like there is truth in this and that it is truth you want to know and experience, you are free to contact me for further notice. Sometimes we just need someone to point out to us what is already the case about us. Then we can see it for ourselves within no-time. It is as simple and natural as that.

After all, how could knowing yourself be so hard if you are there wherever you go? How can knowing yourself be so difficult, if every moment you experience is composed of nothing but you? Who you are is very very simple. We just have become trained to always look ahead, to regard to things as imperfect, to miss this simple fact of who we are. That can change within a very short period of time, I assure you.

Love,
Bentinho.

#10

I see what you mean. I will try to apply it - I will call it the freedom of accepting everything as it is.

I do not doubt that what you talk about is the attitude of the Spirit. Guess I still have issues with the Soul, though. And as a thought: I will not be satisfied with Spirit alone, but I’ll try to tranasform all lower aspects into spiritual ones. Otherwise there is no purpose to life, and I cannot just accept that.

Sorry for the harsh picture of physical violence, - it was born form the actual desire to crucify you. Which is funny, if I give it a thought. :slight_smile: And, of course, a compliment to you.

#11

Hey Hubert,

Great to hear you see what I mean.

No worries about crucifying me. :slight_smile:

One more thing I would like to comment on your latest post because it is crucial to really accept the unity of [I]everything[/I], to no longer divide:

I see what you mean. I will try to apply it - I will call it the freedom of accepting everything as it is.

I do not doubt that what you talk about is the attitude of the Spirit. Guess I still have issues with the Soul, though.
To say that what I talk about is the attitude of the spirit is great, however, that does not mean that this attitude excludes any other attitude. It’s not so much of an attitude rather it is a way of allowing everything to be as it is. or like you said, the freedom of accepting everything as it is.

And as a thought: I will not be satisfied with Spirit alone, but I’ll try to transform all lower aspects into spiritual ones. Otherwise there is no purpose to life, and I cannot just accept that.
I do not mean to analyze you, but in the light of our discussion on awareness I would love to once more say that it is most beneficial to see through our beliefs that divide the mundane with the spiritual. You see, there are no lower aspects and there are no spiritual aspects. There is nothing to transform. This is really important to understand and acknowledge accept as a truth. If you can let go of these beliefs that there is a division between high and low, good and bad, mundane and spiritual, pure and impure, then right away you will experience much more rest and freedom and openness to see who you are. For me personally this really was a very powerful acknowledgment: That [I]everything[/I] is without individual value and already perfect in nature.

So you see, whether you are satisfied with what you would call the spirit or not alone, that does not mean that there is a division of any kind. All is the spirit. Your body is pure spirit, your material wealth and health is pure spirit. To say that you do not want only the spirit means you see a separation between spirit and physicality. But if you just keep on relaxing as you are, opening up your perception to that ease and spaciousness of awareness again and again, you will see how everything is simply an appearance in and of awareness.

There is no impure thought that I need to transform into a spiritual thought. If we do look at it in this divided way then we should know that we still belief in the causality of this whole self realization process. We belief that we are someone or something that needs improvement and change to be able to see the light. But awareness is just as much there when you are feeling down and depressed as when you are ecstatically in ananda/bliss meditation. Both these states are equal to awareness. It is only us who see identity and appoint divided values to each of them. When we do this we miss the fact that they are both solely dependent on your awareness. If awareness was not there, then they could not exist. They are nothing but awareness. Awareness is uncreated by any doing or thinking or purifying. All of that makes no difference whatsoever.

“Like cloth when examined is nothing but thread, so is the world when examined nothing but the soul.” - Ashtavakra Gita

So there is no progress anywhere, there is only the acknowledgment of awareness needed in any given situation.

As a result of that and that alone, your abilities will improve significantly. You will become much more skillful in everything. But that is just a natural result of being the clarity that sees everything for what it is.

But hey, I was already very happy with your statement that you will apply this freedom of accepting everything as it is. Please do so and feel free to contact me about any confusion you might encounter. I know you are probably too smart and stubborn to accept guidance :slight_smile: but sometimes it can be very helpful if someone points certain things out to us.

But just so you know, I am here if you need anything. That goes for everyone.

Love and Light,
Bentinho.

#12

If you are able to keep this awarness 24/7, I say, it is indeed the ultimate thing.
But if not, because let’s say, you need to sleep, than it is but a far goal to achieve.

#13

Hey Hubert,

I understand this as a question regarding my personal experience and as a possible authentication of what I have been saying lately? If so I will share with you my personal experience at this point. It is hard to explain though and probably bound to be misunderstood and labeled. But I wish to be open with everyone.

[quote=Hubert;22613]If you are able to keep this awareness 24/7, I say, it is indeed the ultimate thing.
But if not, because let’s say, you need to sleep, than it is but a far goal to achieve.[/quote]

I need not [I]keep[/I] this awareness for it is always present and it does not depend on anything I do. Its stability and peace is now always present and accessible to me on the background. I see it all the time, at least during the day, yet there are differences in intensity. Whenever I choose to experience it in more depth, it is only natural and effortless to do so.

I have had nights where I am very regularly aware in the way I have been describing to you lately. The force and power of this presence is deepening itself in my experience everyday. It is like a lightdimmer switch if you know what I mean by that, the brightness and clarity of it just keeps on increasing. It swallows up, so to say, more of my experience as it is increasing.

When my gaze is aimed at the forms of this world, engaged in thought and situations, that peace and awareness is with me on the background, yet still very present and undeniably accessible. When I am not engaged in situations, I can choose to be aware of only that. In doing so the feelings and fulfillment that come with the ability to see what you are intensify greatly. But even when it is only on the background I am A) free from seeking like I used to seek, and B) Whenever I choose to pay it more awareness it instantly magnifies. Even when in a highly human, interactive experience, or when in a fight or even when my leg will be cut off like you suggested, I can see that awareness with higher awareness so to say whenever and for as long as I choose to. But really even if I don’t do so it is still there without question.

The seeking has stopped, now all that is happening naturally is that my sense of self, or my gaze, or however you wish to call it, shifts from the conventional one which I have been living my entire life, to the fully self-aware one in which all is seen as itself. But I am no longer lost in believing any of my beliefs or thoughts have any meaning, importance or implication and power. And even in the rare occasions that this does happen, there is still the underlying peace and instant recognition of truth, of being. Thus there is freedom from any kind of disturbance even in the midst of utter disturbance.

So if you understand what I just tried my best to explain, then you can also understand how this fundamental awareness that is even beyond dreams and sleep is dawning as my experience more and more.

I am not fully aware at this point like I have been describing lately, during the entire nights. Partially yes and it is very interesting to see. It is a most decisive experience in which you feel that this basic presence is truly beyond any mental state we might go through. It is simply always there even when we are not aware of it. For by what is it that we are capable of not being aware? And by what is is that we know the moments when we are unaware? You see… perfect all-pervading awareness is always already the case.

So even though this pathless path of free awareness is beyond causality and without flawed perception (eventually) there is still a gradual enlightenment beyond the initial enlightenment of definitively knowing and stabilizing the experience of what you are.

[U]In a nutshell this is the process in my experience:[/U]

  1. We start to clearly recognize our true nature and we are able to identify it in all sorts of situations.
  2. As we do this on a more regular basis and as the consistency increases, soon this recognition stabilizes itself and all seeking and trying drops away naturally.
  3. We realize that awareness is always present and there is nothing which can obstruct or affect it in any sort of way. We realize that it is even beyond and includes our sense of self yet we know that that awareness is what we are, and not this sense of self.
  4. Now that the peace has stabilized itself, it starts to increase in intensity, clarity and power. All conditioned patterns which arise start to be consumed by awareness and are now seen as simply an expression of awareness. Even when they arise fiercely as they used to do, there is a constant stable peace underlying the experience. One is able to see at all times.
  5. The confidence and establishment in immediate and ever-present perfect awareness has been complete and there is no belief, thought or event that can possibly make you waver and fall for it. All is simply seen as Awareness. One is in a constant ‘state’ of self-awareness which is beyond any state we can cultivate through our sense of self.

My experience at the moment is that of somewhere between 3 and 5. It is hard and kind of silly to define such a process since all blends in naturally after step 2 has been definitively ‘reached’. But to say that one reaches step 2 is also a distorted expression of the actual experience. There is no clear process but suffice it to say that the intensity and brightness of it that comes shining through all form intensifies limitlessly, until all is seen as that brightness.

I am still in the process of intensification if you wish to call it such. Awareness of pure awareness during sleep comes and goes for me at this point. But there is no effort in trying to increase it, it just happens and whenever in retrospect I look back upon my experience during sleep, I feel that awareness was there all the time and it was never sleeping.

Love,
B.

EDIT: And you know what’s so great about this simple process, that after it has stabilized itself, the process is irreversible and free from whatever you do. There is simply no effort anymore. Life becomes a blessing for the first time truly in your own experience. I use the word blessing only for this: when things start to happen by itself, as if you are blessed by life itself, when you no longer feel like a doer needing to do something. Effort goes out the window and blessing is naturally present.

#14

Thank you for the detailed answer. It indeed means to me a lot. And it is encouraging. I must confess, it is nowhere in conflict with I have learnt or accepted to be possibly true so far, rather, a valuable addition. Something not to be ignored, fore sure.

#15

Thank you for your loving answer. I am authentically happy that you feel good about it.

Much of love to you,
Bentinho.

#16

Guess it was my inability to not see the real thing because I was stuck with my mental image about you (ego). But once you started to talk first person, I could link myself up for a better vision.

#17

Hey Hubert,

Yes I see that happen a lot. Very natural thing to happen :).
Great you could move beyond though.

Love,
B.