Soul Pain

My inquiry would be on this subject that I call “Soul Pain.” After a grim implacement that I have had two and a half months ago, I’ve meditated on the course of my life. Where was I coming from? How did I have so drastic changes within the last 6 years? And what does future hold for me?..

…nowadays, I am very obsessed with understanding my karma, for I came to a point where my soul is having one of those long dark nights. Finding myself questioning many things, waking up in the midst of night: failing to become a professional musician, being unable to having a relationship with the girl I loved, having a dysfunctional relationship with my parents whose insecurities traumatized me in the past, and still haunting; falling from grace, albeit from an intuitive lifestyle as soon as the struggle to make a living kicked in… in my dreams, I’m having such moments that one theme is actually a continuation of another dream I had a year ago or so. As though, my subconscious reality is a CSI-like TV series, waiting to be unravelled. And all the time I found myself blaming the environmental circumstances, the place where I was born, the society that I was part of, and come to find repulsive.

The result is the soul pain I’m having. Just sat on my old piano a while ago, and tried to play a lyric piece from Edward Grieg. The soon my fingers remembered how to play the piece, and chords resonating in my ear, I felt that soul pain even more intensely… that is, I feel placeless.

Next month, I’m migrating to another country, where I got a job offer, and in the past three years, I lived in Japan and the UK, so this is gonna be the third country I’ll be migrating to. I didn’t ask for the conditions that drove me away from my birth place - I guess it’s part of my karma. Probably made some people’s life difficult in my past life, or I was deliberately put in that country so that I can be forged through pain and arrive at spiritual awareness…however, in my heart, the pain of placelessness remains.

Just wanted to share what I’m having through. Introspection on my life helps me to understand my karma, but often ends up generating more pain than relief. Particularly, my relationship with women has been a colossal disappointment, and I often find myself blaming the environmental circumstances, which did not allow me to have lasting friendships so far.

Now, I look at the world and see no understanding. No meaning in anything. I feel dwindled deep down inside and don’t know how to stand up again. This is how life must be in the age of Kali Yuga, if you believe such a thing. I still don’t, although I keep finding evidence for that. Seems like a lot of people are born in the wrong place and wrong time. No wonder, the humanity itself is in grand misery.

Don’t know if you’ve made such reflection and felt the soul pain… 'Tis one of those crucial steps before entering deep into the spiritual path. 'tis like a suicide mission, if you know what I mean…

Dude, You’re fixated on the things that are not coming to you.
Why don 't you breathe in the joy of the things you do have.
Drop into who you are now.
Find peace in knowing that you will never know exactly who you are.
We’re always in a state of flux, as is the reality we live in.

High Wolf,

What is your spiritual practice? You shouldn’t feel thus…

Sorry for you friend.

My friend meditation open what was covered. My advise be yourself, talk with people, meditate, play piano, paint, … If you have questions ask here.
By the way I do not believe in karma or something simillar.

High Wolf,

“Finding myself questioning many things, waking up in the midst of night: failing to become a professional musician, being unable to having a relationship with the girl I loved, having a dysfunctional relationship with my parents whose insecurities traumatized me in the past, and still haunting; falling from grace, albeit from an intuitive lifestyle as soon as the struggle to make a living kicked in… in my dreams, I’m having such moments that one theme is actually a continuation of another dream I had a year ago or”

First, it is important for you to recognize something which is absolutely essential. If you can see into this - then it may warp your whole understanding of the situation. Though you may not like what is happening - the reality is that what is effective or ineffective for your expansion has very little to do with your likes and dislikes. But because we are prejudiced - we fail to realize this. When we are experience pain or suffering, we think that it is a great misfortune. And it can become one if that is your attitude towards the situation. But it can also become a great opportunity to heighten your understanding into yourself. Because if you are suffering, it is not just accidental. There are definite root causes. And if you have been repeating the same sufferings again and again, it just means that certain things have remained outside of your awareness. Because there is an element of unconsciousness which is just like a blind spot - you have failed to come to an understanding of them. The moment those root causes enter into the light of your awareness - then they simply disappear, that is the alchemical effect of awareness. You have said that you were disappointed because of the failure of not becoming a professional musician, but even if you were successful at this - you would have found quickly that it was not capable of providing anything more than temporary satisfaction. To try and fail, is one thing. But to succeed, and still fail, is a far greater tragedy than anything else. But in order to realize this, first you have to succeed. If you had been successful - finding yourself back at the same place where you had started, perhaps it would have offered a totally different understanding.

So perhaps you do not realize, that all of these sufferings, are indications that you have not yet severed the various weeds in your mind which are preventing you from blossoming into a garden - it simply means your attention is not moving in the right direction. But you need not continue on this course, if you come to an understanding of your situation - then the same situation which has been binding you has become an opportunity to move beyond it.

Even during the spiritual process, such experiences are very common. Because as you continue along the path, your system and personality goes through a massive re-organization. This will cause some imbalances and turbulence within you which may be unpleasant - but it is just a transition, a passing phase. By some it has been known as the “Dark Night Of the Soul”, in Zen it is known as the “Great Death”. It is called the “Great Death”, because it is a kind of death which is not of the body, but of everything that your ego has been clinging to for survival. The ego wants to struggle, and has been struggling hard, to have things its own way - it wants the whole existence to fit into its own view as to how things should be. So this “Great Death” is none other than the dispelling of your own delusions right down from the very roots. If you can pass through this Great Death, then it is not different than entering into the Great Life - to come to eternal life, you must first go through a kind of death. The old has to die and die completely, only then can there be a resurrection which is the dawn of a new life, a life of awareness. But if you try to escape from this death, out of fear, then you have in a split moment also denied yourself of transformation - they cannot be separated. Death is destructive, definitely. But what most fail to realize is that death is also a tremendously purifying process, it simply means letting go of the old. This will require enormous courage, because one will have to abandon everything which you have been using to preserve your personality. All of ones beliefs, ideas, philosophies, attachments, likes and dislikes, assumptions, conclusions, all will be reduced to dust. But what will arise in its place will be a clarity which is beyond a doubt. And the strange thing is that, the same thing which was capable of liberating you - has become a source of fear and bondage. So one has created a prison around oneself to prevent one from the only thing which is capable of bringing you to freedom. Because the ego knows very well that if such things are abandoned, then it cannot remain as a central authority in your being anymore.

Do not be discouraged. If you are truly experiencing such a Great Death, then dont turn back, pass through it with least resistance. Eventually - it will lead to a breakthrough.

[QUOTE=Ivana;62915]My friend meditation open what was covered. My advise be yourself, talk with people, meditate, play piano, paint, … If you have questions ask here.
By the way I do not believe in karma or something simillar.[/QUOTE]

Your belief makes no difference. As you sew so shall ye reap. Can you not see this?

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62926]High Wolf,

“Finding myself questioning many things, waking up in the midst of night: failing to become a professional musician, being unable to having a relationship with the girl I loved, having a dysfunctional relationship with my parents whose insecurities traumatized me in the past, and still haunting; falling from grace, albeit from an intuitive lifestyle as soon as the struggle to make a living kicked in… in my dreams, I’m having such moments that one theme is actually a continuation of another dream I had a year ago or”

First, it is important for you to recognize something which is absolutely essential. If you can see into this - then it may warp your whole understanding of the situation. Though you may not like what is happening - the reality is that what is effective or ineffective for your expansion has very little to do with your likes and dislikes. But because we are prejudiced - we fail to realize this. When we are experience pain or suffering, we think that it is a great misfortune. And it can become one if that is your attitude towards the situation. But it can also become a great opportunity to heighten your understanding into yourself. Because if you are suffering, it is not just accidental. There are definite root causes. And if you have been repeating the same sufferings again and again, it just means that certain things have remained outside of your awareness. Because there is an element of unconsciousness which is just like a blind spot - you have failed to come to an understanding of them. The moment those root causes enter into the light of your awareness - then they simply disappear, that is the alchemical effect of awareness. You have said that you were disappointed because of the failure of not becoming a professional musician, but even if you were successful at this - you would have found quickly that it was not capable of providing anything more than temporary satisfaction. To try and fail, is one thing. But to succeed, and still fail, is a far greater tragedy than anything else. But in order to realize this, first you have to succeed. If you had been successful - finding yourself back at the same place where you had started, perhaps it would have offered a totally different understanding.

So perhaps you do not realize, that all of these sufferings, are indications that you have not yet severed the various weeds in your mind which are preventing you from blossoming into a garden - it simply means your attention is not moving in the right direction. But you need not continue on this course, if you come to an understanding of your situation - then the same situation which has been binding you has become an opportunity to move beyond it.

Even during the spiritual process, such experiences are very common. Because as you continue along the path, your system and personality goes through a massive re-organization. This will cause some imbalances and turbulence within you which may be unpleasant - but it is just a transition, a passing phase. By some it has been known as the “Dark Night Of the Soul”, in Zen it is known as the “Great Death”. It is called the “Great Death”, because it is a kind of death which is not of the body, but of everything that your ego has been clinging to for survival. The ego wants to struggle, and has been struggling hard, to have things its own way - it wants the whole existence to fit into its own view as to how things should be. So this “Great Death” is none other than the dispelling of your own delusions right down from the very roots. If you can pass through this Great Death, then it is not different than entering into the Great Life - to come to eternal life, you must first go through a kind of death. The old has to die and die completely, only then can there be a resurrection which is the dawn of a new life, a life of awareness. But if you try to escape from this death, out of fear, then you have in a split moment also denied yourself of transformation - they cannot be separated. Death is destructive, definitely. But what most fail to realize is that death is also a tremendously purifying process, it simply means letting go of the old. This will require enormous courage, because one will have to abandon everything which you have been using to preserve your personality. All of ones beliefs, ideas, philosophies, attachments, likes and dislikes, assumptions, conclusions, all will be reduced to dust. But what will arise in its place will be a clarity which is beyond a doubt. And the strange thing is that, the same thing which was capable of liberating you - has become a source of fear and bondage. So one has created a prison around oneself to prevent one from the only thing which is capable of bringing you to freedom. Because the ego knows very well that if such things are abandoned, then it cannot remain as a central authority in your being anymore.

Do not be discouraged. If you are truly experiencing such a Great Death, then dont turn back, pass through it with least resistance. Eventually - it will lead to a breakthrough.[/QUOTE]

I do acknowledge that the old has to die. New is always for the good but also frightening due to its unknown nature. And yet attachments keep you where you are. Particularly, family poses a challenge. My mom still believes that I like discussing politics, and I can’t convince her otherwise no matter what I say. Because, she and me discussing politics is part of my old habit, and in this case, it is her who doesn’t want to let this thing go. It’s particularly difficult to cast the family aside, especially if they’re your financial and emotional benefactors.

Amir, you probably must have experienced that the people around us aren’t often welcoming about changes. And this may pose great difficulties for the one who’s gotten rid of the old and embraced the new. And no matter what kind of change happens, it seems the gravity of society finds some way to lure the old you out. Then the past keeps haunting even tho’ you don’t want it so. That’s pure karmic manifestation in my understanding. So, being unable to get rid of the old has lot to do with environmental circumstances.

A lot of my personal failures has to do with environmental circumstances which inflicted pain and altered the condition of my physical and mental health greatly as time went by. For me, there are certain conditions to be met in order to achieve what I feel like I am supposed to. But I take Lao Tzu’s words on this matter: that is, certain things cannot be achieved unless conditions are met. If conditions aren’t met, it means that it is not appropriate to pursue a particular interest, leastways, in this particular time frame. Rather than pushing for the odds, be at ease with life - yet the desire is a bitch, as we all know.

I haven’t truly looked at the death in the eye, tho’ I’ve seen a glimpse of it, have been overwhelmed by it. But I am having something close to a kind of Great Death. Could see dark tinglings in my soul - an aching soul, like a cramped muscle. It’s all about attachments. Attachments that are imposed upon you, and that cannot be severed so easily. Like language, the place you were born in, the family, and so on. And embracing them inflicts more pain than before. I lived it. 'Tis often worse than death: the feeling of ultimate placelessness. Transcendental homelessness.

You are real. You are genuine. You are homeless. You will find your home. But you are seeking in the wrong place.

[QUOTE=The Scales;62931]Your belief makes no difference. As you sew so shall ye reap. Can you not see this?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I agree totally.

This karmic give and take further also leads to the conclusion about the existence of and the transmigration of the soul.

regards, anand

Well high wolf of what i can deduce from your post makes me say and feel that you are living your life in “past tense” where the existence of present and your future are just the extension of your past agony. Rather than saying it as a “soul pain” it particulary refers to “material pain” in a sense of agony limited to mental affliction of a sort. Till the burden and as you say the introspection of past is still on your back the “pain” will find no way to run but inside the core of your being and since the mind being close to the soul its reflection imbibe as if you are in “soul pain”.
The second thing i noticed is blaming of circumstances for the cause which in reality is the other way round according to law of karma. If you analyse closely Its the being only that makes the circumstances and the sole cause of his circumstances thus created. It all depends on past karma in previous lives and this life that finally shapes the path or you may call circumstance as humans are free willed beings. Its us where the finger should be pointed and this pointing causes a nice breakthroug in karmic understanding and causes the native to introspect on the question “what can be done” rather “what has been done”. And that might in time may lead to “freedom” rather than “pain”. Nothing is chaotic in this universe, everything happens at the right place at the right time, just a right thought is what is needed.

[QUOTE=Spirit175;63612]It all depends on past karma in previous lives and this life that finally shapes the path or you may call circumstance as humans are free willed beings.

Nothing is chaotic in this universe, everything happens at the right place at the right time, just a right thought is what is needed.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh so we suffer from the past but have free will to change the future but wait for it?.the moment is all that matters?

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;63620]Ahhh so we suffer from the past but have free will to change the future but wait for it?.the moment is all that matters?[/QUOTE]
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Well ray i think you should read the post again… By free willed i mean human being are not mechanical dolls and someone up there directing its action, rather human beings are made free to perform actions and the taste its result be it suffering or happiness. Human beings go on and on in the cycle of birth and death and the karma decides(well what the native did or rather his action) his path and the path would be the direct result of his own actions. There are three type of karma or action one that we did in the past and whose result we are experiencing now second action of our past and whose result might be experienced in next life and third the action which we do in this life and whose result we get in this life or next life. And until these karmas are not destroyed the life cycle will continue to experience it fruits. So every moment of life is coursed by the being himself. And if we just hang on what happene in the past or what will happen in the future it will like living in a dream state forgetting the “present moment” which we have at present and do something to end the cycle. The past was in our hand present is in our hand and future will be in our hand and all that happened from moment to moment so moment does matters.

My inquiry would be on this subject that I call “Soul Pain.”

Dear friend:

Can the soul have pain? I thought, its innate nature is that of ever present joy.

regards, anand

[QUOTE=Spirit175;63625].
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Well ray i think you should read the post again…[/QUOTE]

Not intended as a slam, simply acknowledging the conceptual complexities of the subject matter you wrote, the surface was scratched not concluded. Leaning towards your idea that the universe has a better plan then we may have for ourselves, this is why one seeks the true nature within.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;63630]Not intended as a slam, simply acknowledging the conceptual complexities of the subject matter you wrote, the surface was scratched not concluded. Leaning towards your idea that the universe has a better plan then we may have for ourselves, this is why one seeks the true nature within.[/QUOTE]
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Well mine was neither
but i thought if you read that post again you might get the answer. But when i myself read my post again, it seemed bit confusing too :- ).
I don’t think universe have a better plan for us, the universe carry on its work according to predefined laws and changes in it takes place when soul comes in contact with it when the being is overshadowed by ego. The nature(the senses,thought.mind comes under nature as they keep on changing) has no consciousness of its own but when it comes in contact with soul they seems alive owing to the light of consciousness of the soul that fall on them. And this contact may go on and on but the universe will not help the native to compell him to seek its true nature. And until the native doesn’t feel that all this suffering and agony is caused by his association with the nature nothing can come to rescue him but he or she himself and this in turn might compell the native to seek his or her true identity or rather know his or her true identity because this is what they are.

[QUOTE=Spirit175;63612]Well high wolf of what i can deduce from your post makes me say and feel that you are living your life in “past tense” where the existence of present and your future are just the extension of your past agony. Rather than saying it as a “soul pain” it particulary refers to “material pain” in a sense of agony limited to mental affliction of a sort. Till the burden and as you say the introspection of past is still on your back the “pain” will find no way to run but inside the core of your being and since the mind being close to the soul its reflection imbibe as if you are in “soul pain”.
The second thing i noticed is blaming of circumstances for the cause which in reality is the other way round according to law of karma. If you analyse closely Its the being only that makes the circumstances and the sole cause of his circumstances thus created. It all depends on past karma in previous lives and this life that finally shapes the path or you may call circumstance as humans are free willed beings. Its us where the finger should be pointed and this pointing causes a nice breakthroug in karmic understanding and causes the native to introspect on the question “what can be done” rather “what has been done”. And that might in time may lead to “freedom” rather than “pain”. Nothing is chaotic in this universe, everything happens at the right place at the right time, just a right thought is what is needed.[/QUOTE]

Still, do not underestimate the effects of cirumstances. Some people, despite doing meditation and yoga, continue to feel trapped in a certain place and society. I have seen cases myself; they often bluntly point out, and that’s good in itself. Each passing day, governments and institutions are narrowing down the oxygen chamber, and more and more people feels suffocating. I’ve seen many good, quality people, who suffer immensely due to environmental circumstances. If people say, “ah, that’s karma,” for me that’s just bullocks. So many things happen at the wrong place and wrong time, or right time. Matters not. Place is always a priori: to mental development, spiritual development, emotional development, and physical development. If the place is wrong, point me one person who’s able to remain outside of that dreadful socio-cultural vortex of symbolism. That’s the proble,m: you could probably point that “one” fortunate person, and the rest will have to suffer.

Unfortunately, the last couple of months have changed my mood and quality of my thinking. I’m aware of the rising negativity, and do nothing to stop it. Since environmental circumstances are taking care of that anyway. Swimming against the current is never a good policy. If the place is wrong, you gotta be wrong#@!

[QUOTE=High Wolf;63660]Still, do not underestimate the effects of cirumstances. Some people, despite doing meditation and yoga, continue to feel trapped in a certain place and society. I have seen cases myself; they often bluntly point out, and that’s good in itself.Each passing day, governments and institutions are narrowing down the oxygen chamber, and more and more people feels suffocating. I’ve seen many good, quality people, who suffer immensely due to environmental circumstances. If people say, “ah, that’s karma,” for me that’s just bullocks. So many things happen at the wrong place and wrong time, or right time. Matters not. Place is always a priori: to mental development, spiritual development, emotional development, and physical development. If the place is wrong, point me one person who’s able to remain outside of that dreadful socio-cultural vortex of symbolism. That’s the proble,m: you could probably point that “one” fortunate person, and the rest will have to suffer.

Unfortunately, the last couple of months have changed my mood and quality of my thinking. I’m aware of the rising negativity, and do nothing to stop it. Since environmental circumstances are taking care of that anyway. Swimming against the current is never a good policy. If the place is wrong, you gotta be wrong#@![/QUOTE]
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I m not underestimating the effects of circumstances but circumstances is not a priority they are just conditions that acts as an agent to bring forth fruits of our action. As i said in one post above circumstances are dead things with no life of its own and according to you if circumstances are the priority that shapes natives life than the native will never get salvation in this life or other. Rather the native(soul) is free,with no effect on it at all from circumstances and its the ego that makes him think that he is affected by the circumstances but thats not true and thats the basics in spirituality. For three people circumstances may be the same and in it one may feel happy, the other sad and the third one remains just aware from his core and feels nothing neither sad nor happy,so if circumstances were the priority then all the three should feel the same;so this shows its finally the native actions(forget about the word karma as it sometimes seems mystical as not connected to us at all and actions include both mental and physical labour) that matters at the end of the day.
When you say you have seen some good people suffers immensely due to environmental circumstances it doesn’t mean circumstances is making them suffer,as i said above circumst. are lifeless but rather it is providing conditions for the native to manifest the result of his actions alone nothing more nothing less or his response to it. Action is not that you act and get the result next moment rather its a cumulative process and every action’s be it mental or emotional is imprinted in human psyche ready to get manifested during required conditions. And when one do yoga and meditation for some time or long it doesn’t mean he burnt all his actions at an instant or knew that the relationship between soul and environment never existed and if this would have been the case whatever may be the circumstance there would be no effect on him and also since the ego has fallen down there will be no imprint of his further actions as he know he is not the doer of things as he never was. When a person is born in a particular society or place it doesn’t happen chaotically but rather for the native to fulfill his desires which he accumulated through his actions are the sole cause because that place and society will provide adequate circumstances to fulfill his desires,though knowing desires end result is agony and despair. Nothing exist as the phrase wrong place at wrong time because when people are happy they think its the right place right time but when something go wrong its the other way to call it. Everything in this world has a reason or cause behind it because without it, effect would not come into picture.
And lastly i would like to say that the present action is more powerful than what we have done before. Circumstances(well the lifeless conditions) will provoke some of our previous action but we have the ability to either remain unaffected or do present actions to nullify them or go with its flow. Because its our action be it physical or mental,present and past that always decide the course of life and circumstances are just conditions that creates the path for such life be it anything.Give it a thought but a deep one as its an intricate subject and i don’t say i might be completely right in this regard but this is what i have seen and inferred but not as a final conclusion.