Sour Grapes?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

“The physical practice was established as a method of asana to occupy the furtive mind of adolescent boys.”

I’ve seen several statements like this regarding Ashtanga yoga (Pattabhi Jois’ brand, not Patanjali’s). I wonder if this is really true or if it’s just sour grapes on the part of people who either don’t like or can’t do Ashtanga yoga. There’s no doubt that Ashtanga requires a higher level of fitness to practice it, and is more physically oriented. I’d like to know if Pattabhi Jois actually said this? Does anyone have a reference? Can anyone document that Pattabhi Jois was teaching only adolescent boys when he developed this practice? I’m fairly certain that in the long span of his life he taught all kinds of students. I’m thinking maybe it was his practice that he worked out for himself and taught it to others.

#2

[QUOTE=Asuri;52245]“The physical practice was established as a method of asana to occupy the furtive mind of adolescent boys.”

I’ve seen several statements like this regarding Ashtanga yoga (Pattabhi Jois’ brand, not Patanjali’s). I wonder if this is really true or if it’s just sour grapes on the part of people who either don’t like or can’t do Ashtanga yoga. There’s no doubt that Ashtanga requires a higher level of fitness to practice it, and is more physically oriented. I’d like to know if Pattabhi Jois actually said this? Does anyone have a reference? Can anyone document that Pattabhi Jois was teaching only adolescent boys when he developed this practice? I’m fairly certain that in the long span of his life he taught all kinds of students. I’m thinking maybe it was his practice that he worked out for himself and taught it to others.[/QUOTE]

It is unfortunate that the interpretation of asans in the west , and for that matter by many teachers in India is purely physical. Asans were developed for strenghtening the body to be able to take the strain of long hours of dharan- yes. But a very important aspect of asan is stability in the pose- it involves being able to disconnect the mind from the body’s physical strain. Most asans can be used to develop this ability which furthers one’s meditation.

I dont know whether Pattabhi Jois actually said this , but Pattabhi’s teaching seems highly physical oriented as is that of others of the same ilk Krishnamachari and BKS.

#3

I don’t go to classes, so Ii can’t speak to what the classes are like, and I don’t venture much beyond surya namaskar and standing asanas. As I understand it, one of the things that sets ashtanga apart is the vinyasa, i.e. coordination of movement and breath. I’ve found it to be very effective at calming and focusing the mind.

#4

I believe this is a reference to Patanjali’s statement that asana should be [I]sthira[/I] steady and [I]sukha[/I] comfortable. Here is another quote from the Jabala Darsana Upanishad that sheds some light on the meaning of sukha:

“Oh sage, that position, whatever it may be but what makes you comfortable and gives you courage to undertake yoga is Sukhasana. People who do not have strength to take up other positions can use that.”

This instruction is given in the context of talking about sitting asanas that are used for meditation. Jois, Iyengar, and Bikram all come from the same lineage. There should be no doubt that these are authentic practices.

#5

Over the years I have used various postures as a means to either relax or stretch. But my first formal practice was ashtanga and, like the chick emerging from the shell, I quickly imprinted. Since then I have tried many other disciplines and enjoyed them all, but ashtanga remains my primary practice. There are times when I crave the gentle, restorative moves from a hatha pre-natal class :wink:

Too much emphasis is placed on asana styles - on ‘my yoga is better than your yoga’. I see it here, and among the community in my city. A form of yoga snobbery.

It’s all good. What’s important is finding a practice that does it for you.

#6

[QUOTE=Asuri;52245]"The physical practice was established as a method of asana to occupy the furtive mind of adolescent boys. [/QUOTE]

This is just a fact, really. It was Krishnamacharya who taught an intensely physical practice to teenage boys. I learned that from my teacher, and googling the subject led to this confirmation:

Today, the Pattabhi Jois Vinyasa series remains the most faithful to his [Krishnamacharya’s] original teachings to teenage boys, in that it seeks to not change much from that practice. Krishnamacharya was well-known for tailoring his teachings to address specific concerns of the person or group he was teaching, and the Vinyasa series for adolescents is a result of this. Krishnamacharya himself was not practicing those series at the time, nor did he teach seasoned practitioners and adults in the same manner. When working under the convalescing Maharaja of Mysore, Krishnamacharya set up a shala, or yoga school, in the palace grounds and adapted the vinyasa practice for the young boys of about twelve years of age who lived there. Vinyasa, therefore, is a very physically demanding practice targeted at channeling hyperactive young minds and restless bodies with the boundless energy of teenage boys.

http://www.yoginirmalendu.com/Types_Of_Yoga/Ashtanga_Yoga/Ashtanga_Vinyasa_Yoga.html

#7

>>“The physical practice was established as a method of asana to occupy the furtive >>mind of adolescent boys.”

>>I’ve seen several statements like this regarding Ashtanga yoga (Pattabhi Jois’ brand, >>not Patanjali’s). I wonder if this is really true

The likely origination of this is that Pattabhi Jois originally studied Yoga with Krishnamacharya. Pattabhi Jois was about 12 years of age and only stayed studying with Krishnamacharya for about 12 years.

Krishnamacharya frequented the gymnasiums of the day, as well as practicing yoga, and i think it is no surprise to see postures such as chaturanga emerging at that time… very like press-ups which are often practiced in the gym.

And apparently some of Krysnamacharya’s yoga work was working with young teenage boys to strengthen then up for the police force.

So i don’t think that Pattabhi Jois said your quote… but more so that Ashtanga Vinyasa was the practice appropriate for him (from 12 year to 24 years) when he was with Krishnamacharya.

After this he left, and continued on teaching what he was taught.

And as is apparent nowadays, he did not only teach ashtanga vinyasa to teenage boys, but to many other age groups and women.

However, hatha yoga is a further wider body of knowledge than Ashtanga vinyasa, and as Reaswaran has already said, the physical asanas and also the cleansing practices which also belong to hatha yoga, were primarily designed to strengthen oneself for the more inner subtle work of sadhana.

Having said all that, i personally think that ashtanga vinyasa is an excellent physical practice, especially when one brings one’s full awareness to the practice, really focussing on the breath, using the drishties and especially when taught by an experienced yoga and meditation teacher.

From the wider aspects of yoga, i think to accompany one’s ashtanga practice with other practices such as meditation, pranayama, yamas, niyamas, shatkarmas is well advised.

Best Wishes,
Dave

#8

I remember an article in Yoga Journal about yoga purists, and loin clothes and there was a picture of teaching boys in India and they were in loin clothes. I personally extrapolate that this dates Pattanjali’s statement within his culture and therefore, time and the western mind has expanded the practice from there.

#9

@trinley & burren yoga

Thanks guys, very enlightening. And as Flex Penguin said, everybody needs to find the practice that is right for them.