Dear all,
i wish to check out some information and opinions on sun salutation doubts which i encounter lately.
Is that appropriate to straight away go to savasana after 10-15 min continuosly sun salutation?
Is this one of the yoga style?
Thanks for the opinion in advance…
I use sun salutations (A and B) as a warm up for my practice. I do 3-4 of each (that would be almost 10 minutes i guess) then begin the ashtanga primary sequence (~1 hour and 20 minutes). I then close the sequence with shavasana.
What style of yoga do you practice? Are you only doing sun salutations? Do you finish your practice with shavasana or do you continue doing more yoga after a few minutes in the pose?
The way i understand shavasana is that it is the final pose after any practice used to relax, deepen the breath, and incorporate all the little things the body has experienced throughout the practice. I hope that offers some answer.
Dear Sarah,
Thanks for the reply. I wish to appologize for not giving complete information on the question/doubt.
Actually the sequence is as below:
So is this ok?
thanks and best regards
Are you doing savasana after the sun salutations because you are tired?
dear xela,
Not really. It is a sequence that the instructor put it into practice. so i am not sure is this a new style of yoga or is there any theories behind this sequence of practice?
thank and best regards
MC
Hi, this is Soul. I have 12 years experience in asana and pranayam, and am currently teaching, and always learning.
I think it’s fine, just check that the body doesn’t cool down too much though, before you practice other asanas. If it does you could leave out the first savasana and go straight into asana, then savasana at the end. It’s not a particular ‘style’. Each teacher has there own way. It’s all Hatha yoga.
Wishing you peace, Soul
there is a primary factor that comes up first before getting to “an” answer to this. And that question is “what is the purpose of Yoga for you?”.
If your purpose is to do some poses, move your body, and la-ti-da. Then this is fine. Just as setting an avil on your pelvis would be fine.
However, if you are asking about this sequence in the context of capital Y yoga, then it is not appropriate or necessary to do savasana followed by an asana practice. Savasana is a shifting of the Central Nervous System into a para-sympathetic mode. This is vital so that the practice itself does not adgitate the nerves. Savasana after an asana practice is “health” itself. This is why those that consider it a must after practice, consider it so.
Appreciate the opinions on this topic.
Actually the concern from me is that after the sun salutation A, the heart rate has push up quite high and if it follow with savasana, we place huge pressure on heart as other muscle group no longer helping the heart to pump back the blood. So i am worry this is a dangerous move. i try to analysis this sequence from the point of anatomy and physiology of human.
Since i am relatively new in yoga world, so i am not sure the mention sequence is correct and appropriate or not? i am might be wrong or there is some explanation behind the sequence.
Other things that concerns me are:
From the anatomy and phsiology point, most of the advance posture is extreme stretching on joint and spine, so is this safe to so especially those involve the spine area
The side bending and back bending exercise is about irregular compression on the interverterbrae disc, so is this good or bad? or the spine suppose to perform in that way?
thanks and best regards
A lot of good thoughts here. I have experienced a style of yoga that encourages the heart rate to come back to a resting rate after a vigorous pose, before going into the next one. This requires pausing after vigrorous poses. Also, there was a focus on integrating the pose into the mind body spirit with this pause, a kind of “check in” with it. There can be emotions, physical sensations, etc.
But these pauses are not considered savasana . . . food for thought. Keep asking questions and growing in your practice !
Well the comments can only be as good as the question and in this case the question is only as sound as the sequence.
It is, from an asana standpoint, appropriate to cool the student before Savasana. And had you included seven other poses I would have given you feedback about which would be appropriate and where they would be so.
What style of yoga are you referencing? When I see an “A” or a “B” I think Aashtanga or Vinyasa but I gather others use such a name as well.
Many of your questions are ones specific to a certain practice or practices.
In Purna Yoga there are certain things in the practice we do not do for safety reasons. The practice has taken much of this from B.K.S. Iyengar.
I prefer, out of respect for my teacher, his peers, and his students, to not get into a debate about yoga styles. Therefore you should consult someone of the style you are practicing.
[QUOTE=klvn168;5349]Appreciate the opinions on this topic.
Actually the concern from me is that after the sun salutation A, the heart rate has push up quite high and if it follow with savasana, we place huge pressure on heart as other muscle group no longer helping the heart to pump back the blood. So i am worry this is a dangerous move. i try to analysis this sequence from the point of anatomy and physiology of human.
Since i am relatively new in yoga world, so i am not sure the mention sequence is correct and appropriate or not? i am might be wrong or there is some explanation behind the sequence.
Other things that concerns me are:
From the anatomy and phsiology point, most of the advance posture is extreme stretching on joint and spine, so is this safe to so especially those involve the spine area
The side bending and back bending exercise is about irregular compression on the interverterbrae disc, so is this good or bad? or the spine suppose to perform in that way?
thanks and best regards[/QUOTE]
Your concerns are legitimate. That is why those asanas are advanced. They are supposed to be achieved after years of practice. The reason for doing them is more than just good physical health, their purpose is creating changes in the practicioners subtle body, achieveing different levels of consciousness and a wide range of emotions. At a certain point they indeed stress the physical body to it’s limits. So one doing advanced asanas should be just as good prepared and have “professional” guidance, as a performance athlete. This is often overlooked, and yoga seen as some sleepy, exotic and peaceful gymnastic. It is not so. It can be very dangerous without guidance and can cause serious chronic injuries.
But let us look at it from a different, more pleasent point of view.
The body is a temple of the soul. If it is well built ( we are building it every day, every minute) it can turn into a beatiful expression of the soul, and asana can be a glorious hymn to it’s architect. An advanced yogi does not practice asana to achieve flexibility or good health. He/she does it just becasue he/she can. Hatha yoga is a prayer where the asanas are beatiful words. The soul “lives” the body, and asana is this life’s peak expression.
About extreme stretching of the joints and spine … I am just starting to learn that one must not feel any stretch in one’s joints. The stretching must be felt in the muscles. Muscles are designed to stretch. Joints, tendons, ligaments are not.
When an advenced practitioner performs a backbend, the tension is not in the spine, but in his muscles. He keeps the pose by the collective effort of all agonist and antagonist musclegroups. Abdominals are streched but not totally relaxed, and the backs muscles are contracted. This is true for most joints.
Also, the spine is very well designed, and the intervertebral disks are able to sustain tons of compression. A simple everyday froward bend to get that basket of fruits up from the ground generates an approximate 700 kgforce of pressure in the lombar vertebrae.
The key is a very slow and patient practice, with focus on strenghtening personal weaknesses, balancing the body, and slowly taking it to a higher level of wellness. This way there is no danger hurting yourself.
The body is a temple of the soul. If it is well built ( we are building it every day, every minute) it can turn into a beatiful expression of the soul, and asana can be a glorious hymn to it’s architect. An advanced yogi does not practice asana to achieve flexibility or good health. He/she does it just becasue he/she can. Hatha yoga is a prayer where the asanas are beatiful words. The soul “lives” the body, and asana is this life’s peak expression.
ahh. makes me want to go get my mat right now !
Dear hubert,
Thanks for your opinion on this issue. Actually this is my ideas and opinions on the issue discuss by you eventhough it seem abit out of the title of the original of this post.
The interverterbrae disc condition is vary from person to person. I believe if the person start practicing yoga or involve in gymnastic in the early age, then this group of ppl may not suffer for the over compression on the disc if compare to those who start doing yoga late like around 30 years old or more.
When come to extreme stretching posture like full wheel (Chakrasana) pose, those who start practicing yoga late in his/her life may not be advised to do it as at that moment their disc is not in good condition due to wear and tear, disc thining, and loss of liquidity of the disc. What you all think?
For the stretching on ligaments, tendon issue. I got a question, as we recall in the early days when practicing yoga, particularly when come to sitting forward bend, we tend to feel the discomfort come from behind the knee. Right? So what actually the explaination of the pain come from? It is stretching on the PCL (posterior crucial ligament)? or something else?
I am really appreciate for those who share their views and opinions here. I learn alot from you all.
Thanks and best regards
KLVN
I’d like to briefly respond, if I may.
Yoga asana practice is a method to combat the effects on the spine resulting from the society and evolution we have chosen. It is only when the student does NOT back bend that the spine becomes brittle and thus susceptible to damage.
Why? Because our lifestyles are forward-bending in nature. Bending over to drive, bending over to vacuum, bending over to pick up, bending over, bending over, bending over. It is this repetitive action forward that compresses the anterior portion of the invertebral disc. The material of the invertebral discs become unlevel and it’s viscosity changes (mushy on one side, brittle on the other) as a result of the forward pressures. It is only backbending, at any age, that begins to level the playing field and restore health to the spine.
It is standing erect that compresses the spine. The spine has evolved with curve in order to bear the weight of a bipedal being (rather than a qudriped). Appropriate backbends and forward bends do not compress the spine. The spine actually lengthens when the student is instructed properly. It is this lengthening, which in yoga comes from inversion primarily, that frees the invertebral muscles and allows healing in the disc matter.
The spine is meant to flex and extend. But our lives primarily create only one of these motions (forward bending) thus creating imbalance. Backbends are incredibly healthy for the human spine at any age assuming the action is in integrity with the condition of the spine itself.
Yoga and gymnastics should not be compared side by side. They are not at all alike and a comparison of this sort is misleading. Furthermore it is not appropriate to compare asana to gymnastics either, other than to say “asana without yoga is gymnastics”. It is there that the comparison both starts and ends.
As for your knee question in forward bending, it is possible the culprit is a tendon behind the knee and that would be common for those with tight hamstrings attempting to do poorly aligned forwardbending action with the legs straight rather than bent. This can be from “over stretching”. Tendons do not stretch, only muscle (in yoga) and so over doing shifts the action into the tendon where it does not belong. This sort of pain is not from a healthy posterior cruciate ligament as that is a knee joint stabilizer. The PCL is responsible for how far backward the tibia moves under the femur. Therefore it is not the PCL that is responsible for the pain behind the knee in forward bending actions (unless it has been ruptured previously, in which case it might hurt like the d|ckens in any pose).
Dear InnerAthlete,
How about ‘extreme’ back bend for those who start practicing yoga at around 30 years old? Or actually everybody can go for extreme stretching as long as they are prepare and the body allow it to go for it?
As for the knee, i think most of the beginners who suffer from stiff hamstring and lower back can’t avoid stretching the tendon or the feeling pain behind the knee cause they are stiffness on most of the joint and muscle group. Am i right? Sitting forward bend may be can modify by bending the knee, but how about spread leg sitting forward bend? normally the practisioner will feel discomfort the inner side of the knee which is the tendon and ligament located. So is this ok?
Thanks and best regards
KLVN
I’d be more concerned about your interest in being right than I would in backbending. However, I’ll humor the post a bit further along. But let me preface further comment by saying there is NO right or wrong just as there is NO one truth. Now onward…
There is not sufficient room in Yoga for the phrase “extreme”. The very nature of such a phrase implies danger as it means going beyond a reasonable point. Now, there are some yoga practices for which the student is fitted to the pose. This is not a flavor of yoga I enjoy, choose (as a practitioner) or teach (as a sentient being).
In the practice of Purna Yoga, in which I am trained, the poses are fitted to the student. We do not teach poses, we teach students. If you are unable to fold, you are thus not expected to fold so that my ego may be satiated by you “being” in “the” pose.
In Purna Yoga it is always safety first. We over-engineer safety. And so for us (those who teach and train in this discipline) the student is not a) doing extreme anything, including backbends, b) forced or adjusted to a perfect pose they are not ready to move into, and c) placed at risk of injury.
Let’s take your case of a 30 year old and assume it is a male who has a little or no physical fitness activity or background. Should that man walk into a class and be doing Urdhva Dhanurasana 45 minutes later? Probably not. Perhaps, but probably not. And when the answer is “yes” it is only after that student has demonstrated preparatory actions and alignments to remain safe in the pose. There’s that pesky safety thing again. What a crosss we bear.
The stretching, as you say, is a custom fitted suit not a buy off the rack. It must fit that student, their body, their mood, their mobility, at exactly that moment of doing.
As for beginners or raw beginners, of course they can avoid stretching into the tendons. If they could not then Asana would be uniformly dangerous across the board. However it is important to mention that not all “pain behind the knee” is an over stretched tendon. Just as not all men are pigs. Many are but some are not. The student in asana will of course feel things in their physical body and there should be some ache but there should never ever be sharp pain in a joint unless you are actually trying to damage it.
You also mention “spread the legs sitting forward bend” and the reply there is that stiff students have NO BUSINESS doing such a pose. None. The sacrifice a stiff beginner would make to be in such a pose (mostly to follow along either with a group or the dance of their own Ego) is dangerous. In that respect you are right. For the stiff beginner it is enough to find the action and body awareness that go along with lengthening the spine BEFORE forward bending. Honestly, many intermediates can fold but do not mantain the spinal length and therfore they are at risk too. But I am not their teacher so they will not be mumbling my name in five years. I can only teach those that come in my door, virtual or otherwise.
If you want to move toward experiencing such a pose lay on your back and wiggle until your sitting bones contact the baseboard (where the wall meets the floor). Extend the legs up the wall (as in viparita karani), then move your legs apart. This will keep your back passive and allow you to open the groins while mentoring the safety of the sacroiliac joint and lumbar spine.
[QUOTE=klvn168;5555]Dear InnerAthlete,
How about ‘extreme’ back bend for those who start practicing yoga at around 30 years old? Or actually everybody can go for extreme stretching as long as they are prepare and the body allow it to go for it?
As for the knee, i think most of the beginners who suffer from stiff hamstring and lower back can’t avoid stretching the tendon or the feeling pain behind the knee cause they are stiffness on most of the joint and muscle group. Am i right? Sitting forward bend may be can modify by bending the knee, but how about spread leg sitting forward bend? normally the practisioner will feel discomfort the inner side of the knee which is the tendon and ligament located. So is this ok?
Thanks and best regards
KLVN[/QUOTE]
Dear InnerAthlete,
Thanks for your patient and precise explaination on the mentioned issue.
After reading through your text, can i said that actually when come to yoga practice, it is personal and the standard posture just serve as the guideline?
Base on your explaination, i found that we shall listen to the body first and really care about the feedback that the body provide to us when we attempt to do a posture.
I think, as a human, sometimes we pushing too hard due to egonism when we are trying to do something (stretching or exercise). We use to ignore the feedback from the body and this can be dangerous to the body, at least physically. Yoga always want us to listen to our own body and you can’t compare among others as everyone is unique.
Just wonder, is there any people came across books or any other education materials that will tell the readers about the ‘feeling’ of a proper aligned posture? I think most of the books tell us how to perform the posture but seldom tell us when shall we feel, and how the feeling is? i think this piece of information is important as this can at least alert us if we are at the wrong alingment.
Thanks for the sharing
Best regards
KLVN
Try yogajournal.com, they have very nice and detailed descriptions. Also, when you are familiar with sanskrit names of asanas, try to google them directly. I found very nice descriptions posted by Iyengar practitioners, and so on. If you seek, you will find.
A personal trainer would be best, but without that, we do as we can. Don’t be afraid to ask.
I’ve learnt a lot here, and I am still learning.
Good luck with your practice.
(Btw, I am 35, with chronic low back pain … a few months ago just the thought of chakrasana made me scream. 
I am not comfortable with it -the thought - even now, but I can picture my future self doing it !)