Terminology used on the forum

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello all,

I have noticed since joining this forum last month that a lot of times when those who are newer students of yoga ask questions, that they are often answered by those more experienced members of the forum using terminology and Sanskrit words that would be confusing to a newer student.

I am not pointing this out to tear anyone down, rather to suggest that if the question appears to be from someone who may not be familiar with more advanced terminology, that we make a concerted effort to answer those questions in a way that would be easily understandable (or perhaps provide translation for the saskrit words used).

I would not like to see someone feel intimidated by the terminology when they are making an effort to explore and learn more about yoga. I don’t consider myself an advanced student at all and I find myself having to google translate words all the time or look in my asana book for which pose is named what.

What do you guys think of this? :slight_smile:

#2

This is an excellent point. It is very easy to lose sight of the fact that there are members of our community from all different levels - from raw beginner to, well, not raw beginner. :slight_smile:

I also believe there are two sides to the coin of responsibility. For me, as a teacher, it is my responsibility to reach students and to diversify the way I am able to do that such that I can reach many rather than two. To this end, there were times in my posts, perhaps the first 1,000, where I would use sanskrit and the english transliteration. It became obvious, over time, that those terms could have taken up an entire thread of their own.

The other side of the coin is that a student’s natural curiosity of something they don’t “get” can be the pathway to deeper learning or understanding. That can be through asking directly, reading, or googling. Though hopefully from their teacher. The point here is that teachers nudge students to learn and discover, to think and feel. And that is not always in a direct or blatantly obvious fashion.

But yes, when raw beginners so identify themselves and their level of understanding I am certainly willing to respond relative to that. When they do not, I may not.

#3

I am beginner and I think it would be difficult to make one standard path in this matter. It would be different from time to time. Feel the writers language and respond in a similar way.

IF… someone would write difficult sanskrit words I would just be glad to learn them. Because, it must the goal anyway, to learn them, right!? So, I have found good source to look up words and now it goes quite smoothly and I learn new words every week. But it’s for sure frustrating sometimes. I have a book where he writes almost only with sanskrit words for energy flows in chakras and stuff. Quite hard to read when you have to look up every other word.

So, try to feel the mood, the language. And respond in a similar way. If possible.

#4

I think they should provide translation as well, just to make others feel comfortable. Even though I a have taken Sanskrit as a third language and my first language is a derivative of Sanskrit, I too have difficulties translating Sanskrit. Sanskrit is a like a computer code, my teacher always said that, and truly it is - way too precise. So, yea try and keep it as simple as possible!

#5

Hello Everyone,

I applaud your strength in bringing this up, and I agree, because very often sanskrit is used as a disguise for understanding, to project authority, impress beginners, etc., i.e., “if I am using fancy words, then I really know what I am talking about.” Whereas, when a person really understands what they’re talking about, they make it clear to others in plain language.

Is yoga simple, is it basic, or is it something I have to go look up? Like, uh…“How can I make this more complicated for you?” Unless there’s a prior reference made in sanskrit, I think it’s always possible to respond in plain language. Being clear will always inspire people more than being cryptic, which turns a majority of people away.

However, at the same time, to the beginners out there, we must understand that some of the terminology represents some rather expansive ideas and philosophies that can be difficult to understand if you don’t already have some introduction, for which often times there are no substitutes, say for example “prana.” Sometimes these terms are a must and if you don’t understand, we can hope you will be inspired to do some homework.

peace and keep digging,
siva

#6

…but that should not be most of the time.

Om,
siva

#7

[QUOTE=AbdhijaKimberly;31786]

I would not like to see someone feel intimidated by the terminology when they are making an effort to explore and learn more about yoga. )[/QUOTE]

I do not use terminology, since I’m not familiar with it:( I do not see anything intimidating in it. If they are really interested so they will, As you mentioned, “explore and learn about yoga” looking for terminology online. If they will get intimidated …well maybe they are taking a wrong path…

#8

If they will get intimidated …well maybe they are taking a wrong path…

I have to disagree with you here! :smiley: Yoga is for everyone and should be open to everyone. Some people take different paths to find it. One of those paths might be to do some googling online and landing here, a place where inquiries and discovery should be welcome and encouraged. But if that discovery process is met with language that could be interpreted as pompous or untouchable, some could be turned off.

we must understand that some of the terminology represents some rather expansive ideas and philosophies that can be difficult to understand if you don’t already have some introduction, for which often times there are no substitutes, say for example “prana.” Sometimes these terms are a must and if you don’t understand, we can hope you will be inspired to do some homework.

I completely agree with this. And there is also a place for increased use of yoga terminology when in a discussion with other non-newbies.

#9

what is the english equivalent term for Karma?

#10

PatR, I think that is a typical example of word NOT to translate :slight_smile: because it’s difficult finding a word that reprents the full width of the original word. And most people know it anyway, people that does not know about yoga also.

But, well. To answer your question, according to wikipedia it is something like “act, action, performance” or “deed”. Deed is quite good, maybe!? I’m not a native english-talker.

#11

Here’s a perfect example having contextual implications. While the English, or wiki, equivalent may be something like, “action in word, thought, or deed,” that helps little in understanding a concept such as…“what comes 'round, goes 'round,” or “you reap what you sew,” a very simple idea that can also be quite vast and universal (and that’s only a very limited representation, just scratching the surface of karma). .

While “plain language” here may require a larger context and greater attention, some terms, such as names of postures (asanas), or the basics of practice, etc., these are only labels which are not hard to substitute without compromising their meaning. So a good first step for initiates and newbies is to distinguish, at least, these words that are only labels for “stuff” and those that are symbolic of larger ideas.

peace,
siva

#12

So we’re all in agreement then?

#13

Gordon, my karmic brother,

This I don’t agree with, which in my opinion can really muddy the waters. Where are you nudging me to? It’s exactly what a makes a person uneasy: self-elevating, possibly coercive, biased, potential head-trip? I think what people are saying here is they would prefer “direct and blatantly obvious” over being “nudged,” which is not the clearest path in my opinion, but one that is presumptuous.

siva

#14

[QUOTE=PatR;31897]what is the english equivalent term for Karma?[/QUOTE]

In terms of “Well that’s my karma” (i.e. stubbing your toe, a cool breeze, an unexpected nice surprise, living the life of a boar and so on…

In this context karma means: Result of volitional action.

In the context of the Karma Yoga form this means: the performance of action . . . The Deed.

#15

[quote=The Scales;32820]In terms of “Well that’s my karma” (i.e. stubbing your toe, a cool breeze, an unexpected nice surprise, living the life of a boar and so on…

In this context karma means: Result of volitional action.

In the context of the Karma Yoga form this means: the performance of action . . . The Deed.[/quote]

Indeed… the karma IS the action (or inaction), and any possible or potential results that might flow from that.

It can be both cause as well as effect .The causative principle?

#16

[QUOTE=siva;31975]Gordon, my karmic brother,

This I don’t agree with, which in my opinion can really muddy the waters. Where are you nudging me to? It’s exactly what a makes a person uneasy: self-elevating, possibly coercive, biased, potential head-trip? I think what people are saying here is they would prefer “direct and blatantly obvious” over being “nudged,” which is not the clearest path in my opinion, but one that is presumptuous.

siva[/QUOTE]

Disagreement welcome.
For every student there is a unique way. I’d no more assert that every student wants “blatant” than I would that every student wants subtle. This the process of teaching and I’ve never been moved by a teacher who is only capable of one. Different concepts, different people, different times, different levels - different approaches.

Though I acknowledge the particular approach you desire.

#17

[QUOTE=AbdhijaKimberly;31872]I have to disagree with you here! :smiley: Yoga is for everyone and should be open to everyone. Some people take different paths to find it. One of those paths might be to do some googling online and landing here, a place where inquiries and discovery should be welcome and encouraged. But if that discovery process is met with language that could be interpreted as pompous or untouchable, some could be turned off.

.[/QUOTE]

I agree that yoga is for everyone to try but not for everyone to live yogi life. If some one got intimidated with terminology they are free to go and google the meaning of it or just give up. :slight_smile:

some student get “intimidated” when someone doing “better pose” in the class and they do not want to practice, because someone knows better or does better.

We all need to lean something we do not know, but not get intimidated to term we do not understand.

#18

[QUOTE=PatR;31897]what is the english equivalent term for Karma?[/QUOTE]

maybe something close to the FATE or DESTINY , which constitutes of doings and events?

#19

Many words in Sanskrit cannot be translated into English so we have to use the sanskrit terms. I try to use English words and give explanations, but i’d prefer to use the sanskrit words to be more concise. I am afraid the English language is just not precise enough.

We recently had a huge debate in a thread over the emptying of mind. The author understood the term mind to be giving up ones self and consciousness and thus opening yourself up anything(propoganda, demonic forces) If were using sanskrit we would understand the difference between chitta and buddhi, ahamkara, manas. The part that is emptied in meditation is the buddhi by not judging, ahamkara by just observing and manas by not associating with any thoughts. This way we are in a pure state of observation and awareness and catch anything, even the most smallest thing. In other words contrary to being more vulnerable to propoganda and demonic forces, we are less vulnerable. This is not clear from the statement “empty the mind” and hence the necessity to use the proper sanskrit terms.

#20

I think Kamma (or Karma) can be translated but not into a single word. It can be explain in a phrase and make total sense in English.

A good example would be the word “saddha”, which is easily translated into “faith”. The translation works as a single word, but the big difference stands for what in an Anglo-Saxon background and culture you understand by “faith”. Shakyamuni Buddha tried to explain “saddha” as “the confidence based in knowledge”, or “the confidence in acheiving something which you’re looking for” which could mean “having faith because you know what would happen”, phrase which used the word “faith” which was our direct translation in the explanation itself, validating the point where “faith” is a good translation but it lacks explanation.

Make the experiment with an English word, for example, “Serendipity”! Is “coincidence” a good enough explanation? Is there a direct translation to any other language?