The Brahmic Egg and the Ultimate Deity

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I have recently gotten through several of Georg Fuerstein Books which are just amazing. Hindu theology however, is very complex, and even a guy as articulate as Fuerstein kind of contradicts himself in places. So my confusion lies in the nature of the ultimate awareness/deity/the formless uncreated stillness/etc. etc. etc. On the spiritual path we ultimately in this, or some other lifetime seek unity with this ultimate awareness. Fuerstein talks about this as being Brahma. In the Bhagavad Gita the Lord Krishna talks about himself as being an incarnation of this supreme awareness…and if I remember right calls this awarenss Brahma (I may be mistaken though). In his book on Tantric Yoga however, Fuerstein talks about the Brahmic egg, and that every 120 Brahma years (which equals something like 450 trillion earth years) even Brahma falls asleep (he says he dies in another place), and the entire cycle of creation starts over again. Fuerstein goes onto say that outside of the Brahmic egg there is the true ultimate awareness/stillness/uncreated essence/ etc. etc. etc.

So on the path to enlightenment, are we seeking union with Brahma, or with this ultimate awareness. I am assuming we are seeking union with the ultimate awareness outside of the Brahmic egg. That leaves me unclear however, why the Lord Krishna for example, would speak of himself as being this ultimate awareness and then say he is an incarnation of Brahma.

Anyway, that is my question…sorry if it is just way to esoteric and theoretical. Thanks for any insights.

Sean

#2

Dear Sean,

Brahma is a formless, ever present, omniscient Creator.He is the only controller of this entire universe called brahmaand in sanskrit and hindi.Vedas tell in detail about this creator. But you can understand vedas first by a preach from a pandit or yogi who has realised god.Vedas have shesh alankar i.e metaphor through out. It is not written by any body, by the power of God during the God realisation it is originated in the heart of a yogi.
Lord krishna was a highly emancipated soul, by divines will he took birth again(soul) to establish dharma. As he was one with God so , God speakes through yogis , so in divine state of merriment he said i . No body ever can be god but can realise God as per vedas. God never takes birth, it is realised souls who take birth.God is realised as per the eternal knowledge of vedas and yoga.
Further please read sai charitra, Gurucharitra, Swami nityananda, swami sammarth of akkalkot, lord swaminarayan etc.These great siddha yogis have taken birth within 400 years whose biography was written by there disciples who have that spiritual emancipation will clear you doubt.even jesus himself was a realised soul.
further you read this thread vedas , yoga i am writing about it.
om

#3

I did some more homework on the thing and found Fuersteins quote in the book. Evidently that is not a Vedic idea, it is tantric and puranic in origin.

#4

[LEFT]Hey Sean,
It has been quite awhile since we’ve [I]seen [/I]you on the forum; I hope you are well! The Brahman sleep that you mentioned stirred something deep in the back of my mind (if you don’t use it, you’ll loose it, and I haven’t use this in quite some time;)) I need to dig around in my notes to remember the details, but this is what I have right now:

[/LEFT]
The Absolute Nondual is[I] Paramashiva[/I]=Brahman
Brahman is the [I]Absolute[/I] and what is behind Purusha and Prakriti in Samkhya Philosophy. Purusha and Prakriti are what is responsible for creation beginning again. This where I stop remembering clearly…lol I agree with you; I don’t think you need to go all the way back to the beginning, to the Vedas (1500-500 BC), to get your answers. Like you said, the literature of Purana and Tantra address the schools of philosophy, as does Darshana (which also expounds on the Vedas and the means to liberation.)
[LEFT]
We are going to get some snow (8-10 inches!) overnight in the Colorado Rockies so I am going skiing early tomorrow, but I will dig through my notes over the next few days and share more if I can find something useful to you. Fuerstein definitely makes his readers flex their brains, yes?! Good luck on finding that golden egg!

Cheers,[/LEFT]

#5

God, as The Absolute is unknowable. Only the manifested God, Brahman is knowable. The Absolute never ceases to exist, but you can call it “sleepeing” when all manifestation is withdrawn.
The name Brahman is used sometimes for the the whole world/universe as God’s manifestation. When they say a cicle is over, and Brahman goes asleep, this is what is withdrawn, what ceases to exist, and not the absolute.

I think there is a double usage here of the name Brahman, and that’s just it.

#6

I have been pouring over this passage in Fuerstein’s book; “Tantra: The Path of Ecstasy”. Fuerstein calls the highest level of the cosmic (Brahmic) egg [B][I]satya-loka[/I][/B]. This he says is the realm of Brahma…be he called Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva. At the end of the cycle of the cosmic egg which translates into 453,248,000,000,000 years, even Brahma falls asleep/dies (Fuerstein uses these words interchangeably). For this reason he says that the spiritual traditions of India all consider the attainment of satya-loka as ultimately unnatractive…and here is the key passage on this matter in Fuerstein’s book…“the Divine, equated in the [I]Tantras[/I] with Shiva/Shatki, is outside the realm of causation or destiny and is the supreme object of the liberation teachings”.

Hubert, I was unclear about your post. Are you contending that the only object of our searchings is ultimately the [I]satya-loka, [/I]or the deity in the egg? Here is a thought: In Eastern Orthodox theology God is spoken of in two ways. There is God in his essence, and God in his energies. (For the sake of clarity I am using the masculine with reference to God simply as an easy tool with which to refer to God. Everyone knows that the ultimate deity doesn’t have a hairy chest). God in his essence is unknowable. If we were to know God in his essence, we also would be able to create matter out of nothingness etc. We can know God in his energies however, and in the Orthodox tradition, the saints who achieve the highest degree of union with God are one with his energies…in a similar way to how sunlight shines through a clean window. The light and the window are at the same time both unified and two different entities.

Hubert, do think at all that there is any similar kind of a reality when you say that the Divine (outside of the egg) is unknowable? Because I have to be honest…to say that the ultimate achievement in the Yogic path is union with another created guy…even as exalted a created entity as the deity inside the egg…is pretty disheartening to me.

#7

A word about the energies: In Eastern Orthodoxy, since God is indivisible, the energies are entirely God in and of themselves…they however, aren’t the essence of God. That is just a part of the mysticism of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

#8

[quote=shoney45;8683]

Hubert, do think at all that there is any similar kind of a reality when you say that the Divine (outside of the egg) is unknowable? Because I have to be honest…to say that the ultimate achievement in the Yogic path is union with another created guy…even as exalted a created entity as the deity inside the egg…is pretty disheartening to me.[/quote]

Does a drop of water know the ocean ? And it still is united with it and of the same essence.

#9

Quote:

[quote=shoney45;8683]
Hubert, do think at all that there is any similar kind of a reality when you say that the Divine (outside of the egg) is unknowable? Because I have to be honest…to say that the ultimate achievement in the Yogic path is union with another created guy…even as exalted a created entity as the deity inside the egg…is pretty disheartening to me.[/quote]

[quote=Hubert;8687]Does a drop of water know the ocean ? And it still is united with it and of the same essence.[/quote]Sorry, but I don’t get it.

Sincerely:

Sean

#10

Probably because my bad english. :slight_smile:

Thank you for this opportunity to think of The Nameless.
It is inappropriate to think of The Nameless as it belongs to time, when The Nameless is Timeless. For The Nameless time does not exist. That is above sleeping and death … as these terms are time related. In your book the name Brahman was used once as a timeless, and once as a time contained concept, that’s why I said it is double usage. With a thing as vast as hindu philosophy, this can easily happen, even for lecturers of great experience.

As you brought a christian example, let me use one too; when Jesus says “No one comes to the Father but through me” (The Son), or “The Father has not been seen by anyone”, he says that The Son is not The Father, but The Father can be known by The Son alone.
This means we are brothers of Jesus, we are Sons, and we can see the Father, we can rest on His bosom, but we are not the Father.

As I see yoga and christian theologies … yoga says the only reality is God, this world, even higher worlds are just suffering, we must reach God by all means, so we become free from suffering. The worlds are created and destroyed through cycles, and there is really no point staying in them. Basicly this is a very nihilistic, very negative approach, at least in common terms. This does not mean it is not true.

Christian theology is somewhat more practical, if one can call theology practical, at all. The christian goal is The Kingdom of Heaven. See the difference ? Not God, but citizenship of the Kingdom of Heaven. This is … a more immediate goal, if one can call immediate a goal what is still thousands of years away. (Speculation)

But do not take all these too seriously. It’s just … my take.

A little prayer, or meditation worths more than all these talks, concepts and philosophies. The reason for philosophy is to awaken morality, and the right practice.

#11

Cool Dude - My point was not to really compare the two religious viewpoints. Sorry if I got us into a bunny trail. (BTW - Your English is just fine. If you had not told me a long time ago that you were from Romania, I would never have known you were not typing from somewhere like L.A.). Your thoughts are appreciated.

I agree that Hinduism is like…totally vast. Wow man. Anyway - I think I have learned what I wanted from this thread, so I feel edified. I wish you and yours well sir.