The observer is the observed

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

This is something that i’ve heard many times. Krishnamurti says it a lot, and i’ve read it in several yoga books. It would be great if others could share their opinions and possibly experiences or insights concerning this.

Would you say it means internally? As in the observer in all of us, the center, or that which experiences? For example when you have a thought, there is the thought, and that which is aware of the thought. If the observer is the observed does that mean the thought and the awareness of the thought are one in the same? That it is all just thought?

I hope I’m clear.

Or, does it simply mean that the idea of separation is ultimately illusory?

Or, is this statement referring a realization or achievement? Such as the idea or feeling of separation ceases and you enter into a state of yoga or samadhi where you are one with everything?

Thanks in advance, I look forward to any replies.

#2

I think, the statement is “the observer is observed”. At the very physical level, for example eyes are the observer. But we are “aware” of not only what objects the eyes are observing, but also the fact that eyes are observing. Where does this awareness come from? The brain. So, the brain must be independent of eyes and observing them.

More we dissect the “awareness”, a hierarchy unfolds. Brain is watched by mind, brain’s subtle counterparts (manas and buddhi) are watched by mind, we are also aware of mind. So, who is watching the mind?

This invites us to understand the gross to subtle hierarchy of the world and makes us realize that the subtle always watches the gross and is aware of it. So, if mind itself is so subtle, it must be watched by something that must be absolutely subtle and will have no other thing to watch it. Some call it soul, some Ishvara; but call it by any name, it is this subtlest principle within us that is the Real Perceiver.

Why is the “observer is obsered” a great message? Mind creates many illusions, one of them is “I” that is made to appear as the perceiver. That makes “I” the center of the world and everything else is from “I”'s perspective. It completely blinds us and we outright reject even the existence of soul.

It is when we start enquiring, as you are doing, who is the "observer’ that our awareness starts expanding and deepening until we realize (by experience, not just intellectually) who the Real Perceiver is. And you are absolutely right about awareness being separation that is dissolved in samadhi where you and the Real Perceiver become one.

#3

Oh I know. I know. I know the answer!!!

Me. Me. Me. I know.

BUT I CAN’T TELL YOU!!!

Shucks…

#4

Dear ‘The Scales’,

Your angst is well-taken. I write what little I know with a hope that what helped me would help someone else. What you don’t see is a whole lot that I don’t know about which I read, learn and absorb in the forum. Wonder what and why it hurt you. My apologies.

#5

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;34475]Dear ‘The Scales’,

Your angst is well-taken. I write what little I know with a hope that what helped me would help someone else. What you don’t see is a whole lot that I don’t know about which I read, learn and absorb in the forum. Wonder what and why it hurt you. My apologies.[/QUOTE]

I’m not surprised. It’s a bit like a junior high class room in here sometimes. Ironic considering it’s a Yoga forum.

#6

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;34475]Dear ‘The Scales’,

Your angst is well-taken. I write what little I know with a hope that what helped me would help someone else. What you don’t see is a whole lot that I don’t know about which I read, learn and absorb in the forum. Wonder what and why it hurt you. My apologies.[/QUOTE]

Oh no. You didn’t hurt me. No angst here. Ha. Ha. :stuck_out_tongue:

It was a joke.

It’s like this. I know the answer to the riddle, or should I say what Krishnamurti is saying. But alas I can not say what he means. Because it’s not my place to say what he means.

The krishnamurti quote is a kind of a Koan. A test of your realization. I’d be blowing the whole thing by just comming out and saying what it is that he means.

So although I know what it means I can’t tell you or anyone… because I’d ruin it.

I know that I can’t say what the quote means by internal and external indications.

Hence the “excited school child who knows the answer” skit.

YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK THOUGH!!!

#7

That was a great explanation Suhas Tambe. Unfortunately, it ends up one in an infine regression where we have an observer for every other observer. Patanjali also points this out and solves the problem by saying ultimately there is neither an observer or an observed but just pure I am ness.

The subject and object distinction eventually collapses in the ultimate Samadhi.

#8

Surya Deva, you said it.

#9

and no not quite.

While the samadhi refrence is in a sense correct. It is not the koans ultimate meaning.

#10

So what is the ultimate meaning?

#11

Simple explanation to your question:

when you look at the flower you can be aware of three things.

  1. Flower that is being oberved
  2. yourself (observer) who is observing
  3. Your awareness who is oberving both 1 and 2

All above three things, when done at the same time, then it is called “The observer is the observed.”

For this to happen, you should be sensitive enough to tap your awareness to observe 1 and 2.

hope this helps.

#12

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34525]So what is the ultimate meaning?[/QUOTE]

I’m not telling.

Its a Type of Koan.

I wouldn’t be doing anyone any favors by explanation.

#13

[QUOTE=SohamYogaStudio;35031]Simple explanation to your question:

when you look at the flower you can be aware of three things.

  1. Flower that is being oberved
  2. yourself (observer) who is observing
  3. Your awareness who is oberving both 1 and 2

All above three things, when done at the same time, then it is called “The observer is the observed.”

For this to happen, you should be sensitive enough to tap your awareness to observe 1 and 2.

hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

It does. Explains it quite well.

#14

All separations are illusions
Illusions are all separations