According to these stupid Christians meditation is emptying your mind to be possessed by spirits and pranayama is invoking the devil because Satan is the prince of air!
[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59942]So, you are 13 years old?[/QUOTE]
It’s basically a troll. Every now and again you get them on this forum. You will get use to it. Notice he has not posted anywhere else on this forum, just in this thread. Click on his name and select “See all posts” His posts have only been here. Most likely an alias of another member here who is too cowardly to post with their regular handle.
Trolls basically post only to provoke people not to have reasonable discussions and tend to hound popular members. They never acknowledge your points and pretend not to understand what you are saying. In other words like our 13 year old.
Surya,
“Now ask how can Yoga be compatible with Christianity when it is a Hindu religious practice”
It is compatible with whoever has the desire to do the work that is needed to come to know oneself, through and through. No belief or philosophy is needed - all that is needed is an understanding of the mechanics of the technology. There is nothing “Hindu” about sensory withdrawal, nor is there anything “Hindu” about concentration, nor anything “Hindu” about meditation, nor anything “Hindu” about Samadhi - these are all just different processes of the mind. Nor is there anything “Hindu” about the fact that the mind has various different parts - the conscious, the subconscious, the unconscious, that has been known for centuries by the yogis - not because it is stated in Hinduism, but because it is simply a scientific fact. If Yoga is Hindu, then the Big Bang must be Christian. Again, all that you are doing is trying to give your beliefs an ancient seal of approval, which in themselves have not managed to bring any contentment or clarity to your being. As long as this deeply rooted identification with what you are calling “Hinduism” is there, never within eternities upon eternities, will you come to your awakening. Neither is the word “Hinduism” of any significance at all - as there are so many different belief systems and philosophies, that it can mean just about anything whatsoever - it is not a static thing, it is as vague as vagueness can be.
Fundamentally, your clinging to Hinduism is out of fear. Because otherwise, there is nothing that is there for your ego as a support, you can no longer build protective walls around yourself. It is nothing unique to your situation - most people are far more interested in comfort, security, and consolation rather than seeing into the Truth.
It is compatible with whoever has the desire to do the work that is needed to come to know oneself, through and through.
Sure, but it is not compatible with Christian religion. There is no doctrine of realising oneself through and through in Christianity. Unless you look at the heresy Gnosticism which is derived from Yoga anyway and shunned by Christianity.
Neither is the word “Hinduism” of any significance at all - as there are so many different belief systems and philosophies, that it can mean just about anything whatsoever - it is not a static thing, it is as vague as vagueness can be.
To you it maybe, not to learned scholars and experts who have done their reading. You don’t even know the difference between a shudra and a chandala. Eveything you have said so far about Hinduism has been ignorant and when those statements have been exposed you have been to arrogant to admit it. Which obviously goes to show you are not enlightened, but another ignorant and arrogant human being like many in the world. Your personality is as flawed as any other human - yet you claim to the Buddha himself - because err you can cut a slice of bread lol
Surya,
“It is not compatible with Christianity, and here is a Christian viewpoint itself on the matter”
You are speaking of the common Christian. There is a branch of Christianity which does have a mystical dimension which is connected to the early history of Christianity. This esoteric dimension did not have any particular name, and is today called Gnosticism. The whole approach is to come to “gnosis”, a direct perception of divine nature. Fundamentally, removed of all of it’s philosophy and Christian terminology, it is a method towards Yoga, just as the approach of the Sufis is a method towards Yoga. Because Yoga does not refer to any particular practice - it simply means Union. When you come to a state of consciousness where you are united with your original nature, then you are in a state of yoga. That is why Patanjali has said that Yoga is bringing the activity of the mind to a stillness, so that the “Seer” can see into it’s original nature. Vyasa has said simply that “Yoga is Samadhi”. And I am in absolute agreement with them, because I do not see yoga as having anything to do with standing on your head, or putting a thread through your nostrils, or gagging yourself to vomit, or sitting in the lotus posture. These are all just methods to assist oneself towards the space, and any method which leads you towards your enlightenment is a method towards Yoga.
Just seach for “satsang” on youtube, you will see these people rambling like they escaped from the madhouse. I think they have invaded the discussion boards now.
Right, and gnosticism is considered a heresy in Christianity It is not representative of the Christian religion and its doctrine.
Besides even Gnosticsm is derived from Yoga. It emerged out of Neo-Platonists and Essences - who in turn were Yoga enthuasiasts.
“Unless you look at the heresy Gnosticism which is derived from Yoga”
Certainly it is “heresy”, because the Church has declared it as such. And the Church has for centuries been creating slavery out of their people in such a way, that they can invent whatever they want and people will believe. At a certain point of time it was declared that communism was a sin by the pope, because at that time it was a threat to their establishment. Of course, there have been many councils which have come together to decide as to what should be considered as authentic, and what is to be considered as deviating from their beliefs, such as the Council of Chalcedon, and other ecumencial councils. Even just one hundred years after the death of Christ, there were many different opinions and ideas as to both the nature of Christ and what he has taught, and “Gnosticism”, the mystic approach to Christianity - was a part of this, which emphasized estoeric means towards the direct perception of divine nature. This was not borrowed from Hinduism. Jesus himself had taught that “Unless you know yourself, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God”. The exploration into man’s being is not something which belongs to any particular tradition, it is a human phenomenon.
Really now? Well how about we consult a Christian encylopedia on the matter:
The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis “knowledge”, gnostikos, “good at knowing”), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge. Gnostics were “people who knew”, and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know. A more complete and historical definition of Gnosticism would be:
A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Saviour.
However unsatisfactory this definition may be, the obscurity, multiplicity, and wild confusion of Gnostic systems will hardly allow of another. Many scholars, moreover, would hold that every attempt to give a generic description of Gnostic sects is labour lost.
Origin
The beginnings of Gnosticism have long been a matter of controversy and are still largely a subject of research. The more these origins are studied, the farther they seem to recede in the past.Whereas formerly Gnosticism was considered mostly a corruption of Christianity, it now seems clear that the first traces of Gnostic systems can be discerned some centuries before the Christian Era. Its Eastern origin was already maintained by Gieseler and Neander; F. Ch. Bauer (1831) and Lassen (1858) sought to prove its relation to the religions of India; Lipsius (1860) pointed to Syria and Phoenicia as its home, and Hilgenfeld (1884) thought it was connected with later Mazdeism. Joel (1880), Weingarten (1881), Koffmane (1881), Anrich (1894), and Wobbermin (1896) sought to account for the rise of Gnosticism by the influence of Greek Platonic philosophy and the Greek mysteries, while Harnack described it as “acute Hellenization of Christianity”.
Ah, it sounds like Gnosticism is a completely separate religion from Christianity 
Gnosticism is as Christian as Mormonism is Christian
It is good to see that one sticks to what believes in.
It is also good to see that their thoughts do not have any impact on reality!!
So, if Hard-core “Yoga is a result of Hinduism” fans do not write any books or become yoga gurus or any other significant stuff like that, Yoga is saved and Hinduism is saved.
Even if, they write books or become Yoga gurus, there are better market dynamics which will come into effect…
So, no worry, “Surya Deva” !! You are 100% correct…(with your own views and those of your scholars as well)…
Just a reminder of a poem from “Geetanjali” of Ravindranath Tagore (a noble prize winner from India)…
WHERE the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
[B]Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls[/B]
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
[B]Into ever-widening thought and action[/B]
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
As one builds “narrow domestic walls”, only the builder of the walls gets enclosed…Others are free to seek freedom, have different thoughts and do act so that they will not get lost in “dreary desert sand of dead habit”…!!
Surya,
“Ah, it sounds like Gnosticism is a completely separate religion from Christianity”
Both during Jesus’ lifetime as well as hundreds of years after his death, so called “Christianity” was never organized. It was only through the various councils and the estalishment of the Church as authority - where what is known as “Christianity” took it’s common form through what one knows today. And certainly, “Christian” religion is Eastern, as it had arisen from the Middle East, as is Islam.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59946]According to these stupid Christians meditation is emptying your mind to be possessed by spirits and pranayama is invoking the devil because Satan is the prince of air!
:D[/QUOTE]
Similar things do exist in Hinduism…to be specific among Shiva-based cults.
Meditation is indeed emptying your mind.
Just like bacteria, there are good spirits and there are bad ones. Being possessed by spirits is part of Tantra-Yoga as practiced by some “Shiva God based” cults.
The above said belief about “pranayama” as devil is also true. There are good devils and bad ones (Just like you and me :p)
For simplicity, open-mindedness is required for any practice whether the practitioner is Christian/Hindu.
I am going to start calling my posts Amir-Busters now I am appointing myself as the official debunker of Amir on this forum. I will make sure all his rubbish that he babbles as facts here are exposed
It is false there was no Christian organization prior to Constantine declaring it as his religion state. The first Church was set up very early by St Paul, who declared that the teachings of Christ be spread. This historically was much closer to the Christianity that was later adopted by the Roman catholic church and the canonn of gospels. Then over time dozens of sects of Christianity arose and many apocrophyl gospels were written, such as the Gnostic gospels. These were, even then considered heretical and a lot of debate ensued over what the true Christianity was. This matter was finally settled by Constantine by setting up the council of Nicea and they agreed on what was the true teachings of the Christ and they formed the biblical canon and declared other secetarian doctrines to be anathema and Christianity as we know it today emerged hereof. This is supported by current research by biblical scholars who can date the Gnostic text to a few centuries after the the canonical gospels of John, Mark, Luke etc.
In fact no different to how the religion was Jainism and Buddhism was organized. They were also organized a few centuries after the life and times of their founders and it was settled in council meetings what the true teachings were.
Thus when I am referring to Christianity I am referring to the actual religion of Christianity as it was consolidated by the Roman catholic church. Indeed Catholicism is the true Christianity and Protestantism is considered to be a departure from the original Christianity. Although both of these denominations are as intolerant as one another and accept the same doctrines more or less.
Meditation is indeed emptying your mind.
Yogas chit vritti nirodha, tada drasthu svarupa avasthanam - yoga is the stilling of the activity in the mind, then the witness is revealed in its true and original form
It says nothing about being possessed by spirits troll.
The above said belief about “pranayama” as devil is also true. There are good devils and bad ones (Just like you and me :p)
So you agree with the Christian fundamentalist that air is evil and satanic :lol:
I know you are not Indian or Hindu. All you have been doing since you got here is defending Christianity and attacking Hinduism while claiming to be Hindu You have only posted in this thread and no other. Troll alert.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59959]I am going to start calling my posts Amir-Busters now I am appointing myself as the official debunker of Amir on this forum. I will make sure all his rubbish that he babbles as facts here are exposed
It is false there was no Christian organization prior to Constantine declaring it as his religion state. The first Church was set up very early by St Paul, who declared that the teachings of Christ be spread. This historically was much closer to the Christianity that was later adopted by the Roman catholic church and the canonn of gospels. Then over time dozens of sects of Christianity arose and many apocrophyl gospels were written, such as the Gnostic gospels. These were, even then considered heretical and a lot of debate ensued over what the true Christianity was. This matter was finally settled by Constantine by setting up the council of Nicea and they agreed on what was the true teachings of the Christ and they formed the biblical canon and declared other secetarian doctrines to be anathema and Christianity as we know it today emerged hereof. This is supported by current research by biblical scholars who can date the Gnostic text to a few centuries after the the canonical gospels of John, Mark, Luke etc.
In fact no different to how the religion was Jainism and Buddhism was organized. They were also organized a few centuries after the life and times of their founders and it was settled in council meetings what the true teachings were.
Thus when I am referring to Christianity I am referring to the actual religion of Christianity as it was consolidated by the Roman catholic church. Indeed Catholicism is the true Christianity and Protestantism is considered to be a departure from the original Christianity. Although both of these denominations are as intolerant as one another and accept the same doctrines more or less.[/QUOTE]
The days, when scholars/priests/councils, govern the people and their beliefs are gone and are gone forever…!! So, you can search internet and pile more garbage as you wish…the outcome of that will be garbage only and nothing better…!!
These are the days of twitter/facebook/iPhone…In fact, these are under-defined religions.
Take for example, the recent “Arab-world revolution”…it is not something designed by scholars…It is the will of people and their choice. So, the trend to not to take “history lessons” but to shape “future history”. This is happening all over the world, whether one notices or not.
People are no more servants of “some masters”…they are indeed their own masters…!!
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59961]
I know you are not Indian or Hindu. All you have been doing since you got here is defending Christianity and attacking Hinduism while claiming to be Hindu You have only posted in this thread and no other. Troll alert.[/QUOTE]
I never attacked Hinduism…It is one of the religions of the world…No superior and no inferior…!!
What you have been doing is against the free spirit and free speech foundation of Hinduism. If Hindu sages had that mindset, there would not be any vedas, yoga, ayurveda and others…!! In fact, some Hindus are the real enemies, posing as if they are the guardians.
One can have judgement about who is troll and who is not…!!
What you have been doing is against the free spirit and free speech foundation of Hinduism.
I never denied you your right to free speech, even if you are a troll. What I am doing is what Adisankarcharya did - debating and destroying the opponents false views.
You are pretty off-topic anyway: The topic is Christianity compatible with Yoga? The answer is no because Yoga is a Hindu religious practice which is based on a philosophy/theory that is the exact opposite of Christianity. They are mutually contradictory. Indeed that is EXACTLY what Christian authorities have said on the matter as well.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59965]I never denied you your right to free speech, even if you are a troll. What I am doing is what Adisankarcharya did - debating and destroying the opponents false views.
You are pretty off-topic anyway: The topic is Christianity compatible with Yoga? The answer is no because Yoga is a Hindu religious practice which is based on a philosophy/theory that is the exact opposite of Christianity. They are mutually contradictory. Indeed that is EXACTLY what Christian authorities have said on the matter as well.[/QUOTE]
I do not want to judge or conclude about your background but I can easily assume that you can be one of those hard-core, extreme right wing, Hindu zealot…who is in delusion that he is doing a similar job as Adishankara (a saint from south India).
Great…!! Be in your delusion…because it is better than reality for some:p
The conclusion that you have made about “Christianity being compatible with Yoga” is a personal one which a person needs to conclude.
If Charles Babbage concluded that “Computers are not compatible with non-Christians” and posted on Internet…would you follow that conclusion ???
You’re still off-topic troll.
There is nothing personal about it. It is an official position by Hindus and Christian authorities that Yoga is not compatible with Christianity. I even cited a Christian source a few posts back that proved this. In fact the Vatician itself has spoken on the matter and told Christians not to do Yoga.
If you were Christian would you feel comfortable doing something which comes from another religion which is considered pagan in your religion and which is taught in their scriptures by their gods and priests? Where you make salutations to their gods and chant mantras to their gods and do their spiritual purification practices. You are obviously making no attempt to relate to the Christans dilemma - or have any kind of rational discussion on the matter - dats cuz you’re a troll.
“I know you are not Indian or Hindu.”
There is not even a single person who is Indian or Hindu, although many people may think they are in the same way that people think they can draw lines on the Earth and declare possession of it’s property. Your thinking of yourself as a “Hindu” or an “Indian” is just your identification with a limited identity which is nothing more than your imagination, it is just a projection of the ego. One’s true self is not “Indian”, “Hindu”, it is simply empty of all limiting qualities.