Truth about yoga (a article for discussion)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#121

It is obvious why Buddhism has the same philosophies and practices - because it an off-shoot of Hinduism.It is obvious why Christianity does not have these philosophies and practices - because it is not an off shoot of Hinduism.

No matter if neo-Buddhists disown Hinduism but sit down to practise the Buddha’s spiritual discipline; let Hindus sit down beside them and also practise what the Buddha taught. No matter if Sikhs refuse to visit non-Sikh Vaishnava shrines, Hindus will continue to visit Sikh Vaishnava shrines, and likewise to offer worship at the Mahabodhi temple, etc. Let the others call these places non-Hindu all they want; Hindus may claim them as their own simply by paying respect to them. Daughters may try to break away from their mother, but a mother cannot disown her daughters. Maybe a bad mother, but Sanatana Dharma is not a bad mother. Jay Mata di!

#122

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59482] Daughters may try to break away from their mother, but a mother cannot disown her daughters.[/QUOTE]

This seems as if Hinduism is the mother of all religions.

That is not true. That is like saying iPhone is the mother of all computers/mobiles :stuck_out_tongue:

#123

This wasn’t about all religions, but the offshoots of Sanatana Dharma like Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

#124

[QUOTE=yaram;59484]This seems as if Hinduism is the mother of all religions.

That is not true. That is like saying iPhone is the mother of all computers/mobiles :p[/QUOTE]

No, it is the mother of dharmic religions. In the same way Judaism is the mother of Abrahamic religions.

If Judaism, Christianity and Islam were our offspring, I would have disowned them anyway :wink: These religions were invented by Asuras.

#125

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59485]This wasn’t about all religions, but the offshoots of Sanatana Dharma like Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[/QUOTE]

This is not true either. The word “sanatana dharma” never appears in scriptures/hindu religious texts (OK. As far as I have studied :p). It is just coined by history gurus and priests to give the best position for Hindus.

There is no specific historical dates that are scientifically validated for Hinduism or Budhism. It is just that the Hindu gurus are a lot smarter and back dated everything to thousands of centuries (in fact millions of billions of years) and claimed that Hinduism is “Sanatana Dharma”.

All in all, it is just a game of who first saw the dinosaurs :stuck_out_tongue:

#126

The name Sanatana Dharma is mentioned in many scriptures including the Bhagavad Gita:

kulakṣaye praṇaśyanti kula[B]dharmāḥ sanātanāḥ[/B] |
dharme naṣṭe kulaṁ kṛtsnamadharmo’bhibhavatyuta

Your argument is flawed though, it’s like saying lions didn’t exist in India, before the British brought English to India to describe them.

It is a simple historical fact that these dharmic religions sprung from Hinduism.

#127

[QUOTE=JenniLeigh;59481]“What we call spirituality today is basically Hinduism.”

LOL.

That is quite a monopoly. You must be very proud.

And fearful, that it may be taken away.

How unfortunate.[/QUOTE]

While it may seem like a supremacy, it’s just common sense.

Take a look at Kardecism, it’s a non-sectarian spiritual doctrine that teaches reincarnation and karma. Just starting with the concept of karma we may see it’s directly related to the concept exposed by the Vedas.

Or the Vedic influence in the greek pantheon, I consider the greek gods to be another cultural interpretation of the Vedic devas: stephen-knapp(dot)com/art_photo_twentytwo.htm

[QUOTE=yaram;59484]This seems as if Hinduism is the mother of all religions.

That is not true. That is like saying iPhone is the mother of all computers/mobiles :p[/QUOTE]

Sanskrit is the oldest language (some students of linguistics tell me), Hinduism is scholarly considered the oldest living tradition… It’s only natural for the Vedas to be the mother of all religions.

The problem is that our world was dominated by counterreligionists and counterreligions were forced down our throats. Western society should break away from this [I]ad antiquitatem[/I] fallacy and seek our roots all over again!

As Bryon already exposed:

[QUOTE=BryonMorrigan;59377][I]“These new religions can therefore perhaps be characterized most adequately by the term ‘counterreligion.’ For these religions, and for these religions alone, the truth to be proclaimed comes with an enemy to be fought. Only they know of heretics and pagans, false doctrine, sects, superstition, idolatry, magic, ignorance, unbelief, heresy, and whatever other terms have been coined to designate what they denounce, persecute and proscribe as manifestations of untruth.”[/I] – Jan Assmann,[I] “The Price of Monotheism,”[/I] Stanford University Press, p. 4[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;59476]“You have just described Hinduism with the different methods of yoga, now we just need someone to claim that Hinduism isn’t Hindu”

No, Yoga has nothing whatsoever to do with being Hindu anymore than the Big Bang theory is Christian because the scientist who discovered it was a Christian, or the Albert Einstein is Jewish.[/QUOTE]

Yoga, in the very etymology of it, is sanskrit. How can you separate sanskrit language from Bharata? It makes no sense.

Einstein being jewish is not the best example. It would be more like this: The theory of relavitiy does not belong to Einstein.

Yes, it does belong to him, it was codified by him. Of course knowledge and intellect belongs to everyone, while nature and physics don’t belong to anyone, but he codified the theory, so it’s a fallacy to say it doesn’t have anything to do with him. Not to mention it’s rude to base yourself on someone else’s work and not give credit for it.

Similarly, yoga (a sanskrit therm) and its several branches were codified in India and have deep roots in the Vedas. Re-ligious inclination and/or methods of re-connection to God are universal, but Yoga, as we know it, is not.

#128

This is not true either. The word “sanatana dharma” never appears in scriptures/hindu religious texts (OK. As far as I have studied ). It is just coined by history gurus and priests to give the best position for Hindus.

No, but the word dharma certainly does and the quality of this dharma is described to be eternal(sanatana) knowledge. So now in modern times we recognise the particular dharma to refer to Vedic dharma(urff: Hinduuism) to distinguish it from Buddha dharma and Jain dharma.

There is no specific historical dates that are scientifically validated for Hinduism or Budhism. It is just that the Hindu gurus are a lot smarter and back dated everything to thousands of centuries (in fact millions of billions of years) and claimed that Hinduism is “Sanatana Dharma”.

False, we do have very specific dates. For example the Kaliyuga begins in 3102BCE 18th Feburary at 00:00 hours. This is roughly the time when Lord Krishna lived and the Mahabharata war took place. Corresponding archeaological evidence has now found Krishna’s city.

The millions or billions of years figure is based on divya-yugas the years of the gods. This may not be necessarily referring to human history. So it possible that Lord Rama who lived in the Treta Yuga did not live 1 million years ago as per the treta yuga of the gods, but 9000 years ago as per human treta yuga. Indeed 9000 years also is exactly when the first settlements are found in India.

Are you Indian by the way?

#129

What we call spirituality today consists of the following core doctrines, with core concepts:

  1. Spiritual development and reincarnation. The law of karma, law of dharma
  2. Multiplane and multidimensional universe and body. Physical plane, etheric plane, mental plane, causal plane, spiritual plane - astral planes. Physical and energy body, emotional body and mental body, causal body
  3. Purpose of life to develop consciousness: variously called spiritual development, expansion of consciousness, spiritual evolution, DNA activation, kundalini awakening
  4. Masters and avatars, not prophets: Krishna, Buddha and Jesus are all avatars
  5. Pluralism: Many paths to god
  6. Yoga: Doing physical, breathing, concentration and mental exercises to contact the atman or higher self
  7. Inner god: God defined as a state of consciousness or human potential.

Even an idiot should be able to see modern spirituality is Hinduism. Heck, even the popular terms used like chakras, kundalini, yoga, bhakti, jnana, prana, higher self, astral planes, karma, avatar, samadhi are all Hindu terms. They are certainly not Western terms.

#130

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59491]No, but the word dharma certainly does and the quality of this dharma is described to be eternal(sanatana) knowledge. So now in modern times we recognise the particular dharma to refer to Vedic dharma(urff: Hinduuism) to distinguish it from Buddha dharma and Jain dharma.

False, we do have very specific dates. For example the Kaliyuga begins in 3102BCE 18th Feburary at 00:00 hours. This is roughly the time when Lord Krishna lived and the Mahabharata war took place. Corresponding archeaological evidence has now found Krishna’s city.

The millions or billions of years figure is based on divya-yugas the years of the gods. This may not be necessarily referring to human history. So it possible that Lord Rama who lived in the Treta Yuga did not live 1 million years ago as per the treta yuga of the gods, but 9000 years ago as per human treta yuga. Indeed 9000 years also is exactly when the first settlements are found in India.

Are you Indian by the way?[/QUOTE]

There is no Mahabharat war nor Krisna. They are all grand fairy tales…like the Star Wars or Harry Potter…It is just that some people wanted to tell others how to live better and hence told these stories and made them GODs.

It is just what a person believes. For me:
-Is there any God? Answer: Yes

  • Who is God? Answer: Invisible and Ever present and in all places from atomic particle to super universe.
  • What is Yoga? Answer: Just a routine to cleanse human system. Will not get u any nirvana or moksha!!
#131
  1. Masters and avatars, not prophets: Krishna, Buddha and Jesus are all avatars

Are you saying that Jesus is an avatar or just giving an example of what new agists believe? I hope you are not saying the first.

#132

[QUOTE=yaram;59494]
What is Yoga? Answer: Just a routine to cleanse human system. Will not get u any nirvana or moksha!!
[/QUOTE]

It is just your pick and choose idea of yoga is. What you are talking about here is just the first stage of yoga called bahiranga sadhana or the outward path. This is just a preparotory stage in yoga, but still based on Hindu philosophy of prana.

#133

Star wars and Harry potter are fictional novels. We don’t call them history. On the other Mahabhatata we call history - “itithas” It is well recorded in all our history books and the linages and generations of kings from 7000BCE to Chandragupta, including the kings during the Mahabharata. This fact has been attested by Greek historians visiting India in 300BCE.

Most historians in fact consider the Mahabharata a real event.

Moreover, how do you explain finding of Krishna’s city Dwarika, a city described in the Mahabhatata? Moreover how do you explain that the Mahabharata describes the drying up and changing course of the River Saraswati. This river had completely dried up in 1900 BCE?

#134

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59495]Are you saying that Jesus is an avatar or just giving an example of what new agists believe? I hope you are not saying the first.

But yes, all your points are forms of watered down Hinduism, but still modeled after Hindu philosophy.[/QUOTE]

What do you think? Of course the second :smiley: Jesus to me is nother more than a naive man and hippie of his time who thought he could solve the problems of the world with love and went around pushing the buttons of powerful people - who finally lost their cool - and said, “dis hippe is doing ma nut in” and crucified him.

Then his followers created all kinds of myths about him and formed a personality worship cult. Later the Roman empire noticed how influencial this cult was and how they could adopt this as a state religion to consolidate greater control over the masses. So they carefully selected every gospel that would suit their purpose and rejected every other gospel, such as the gnostic ones.

I don’t doubt the existence of the historical jesus. But the biblical Jesus is definitely a myth. No more refined than a child’s fairytale.

#135

Accepting truth and truth alone and seeking its roots. That’s my motto. It doesn’t mean India is the supreme nation, or other nations are inferior, or that Indian religions are better, we should also break away from this dichotomy, we should not be afraid to question ourselves, our societies, our nations.

If a single different decision was taken in the past, the nation that most protected dharma today could be located somewhere else, but it happened to be India.

Perhaps this kind of realization is difficult because of ahamkhara, we are born in a country, we are raised in a religion and then anything that question their supremacy is a pest to be erradicated. What could also be why other people (specially Christians with their concept of an absolute external saviour) have the difficulty to accept something as Hindu. Hindus would never try to appropriate from a Christian ceremony and start making excuses: “No, the mass celebration was in fact proposed by the rishis, and bla bla…”, imagine that! :smiley: In my opinion the sole fact that Hinduism is self-contained and stable says a lot about its tradition and contents.

When Christianity was organized out of political interests, while Judaism only goes so far in history and can be traced back to other traditions (hindudharmaforums(dot)com/showthread.php?t=66), when the Judeo-Christian world view proved insufficient to mantain a healthy environment, a serious questioning must be made. And I (as a non-Indian and non-born Hindu) don’t say this in a preachy way, I’m not being condescending, I say this because that was and continues to be my own path.

#136

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59498]Star wars and Harry potter are fictional novels. We don’t call them history. On the other Mahabhatata we call history - “itithas” It is well recorded in all our history books and the linages and generations of kings from 7000BCE to Chandragupta, including the kings during the Mahabharata. This fact has been attested by Greek historians visiting India in 300BCE.

Most historians in fact consider the Mahabharata a real event.

Moreover, how do you explain finding of Krishna’s city Dwarika, a city described in the Mahabhatata? Moreover how do you explain that the Mahabharata describes the drying up and changing course of the River Saraswati. This river had completely dried up in 1900 BCE?[/QUOTE]

  1. Please pass me a link or resource to look for linages and generations of kings from 7000BCE to Chandragupta and mahabharatha kings? Or the greek historians books?

  2. Krishna’s City of Dwaraka, if it really exists, might have become more popular underwater city by now. It is just a PhD student’s play with some rocks on the sea bed.

  3. One can write a book when the event might have happened first like the river drying up !!

All these tales/itihas/puran are all present in Greek mythology and Persian mythology and Chinese mythology etc. How can one explain which one is older and which one is younger???

#137

What do you think? Of course the first

Haha sorry, I meant the second :smiley: I corrected it now to avoid further confusion on what I think of Jesus. Avatar? Krishna said, “I am god” not “God why have you forsaken me!”

#138

[QUOTE=Pietro Impagliazzo;59501]Accepting truth and truth alone and seeking its roots. That’s my motto. It doesn’t mean India is the supreme nation, or other nations are inferior, or that Indian religions are better, we should also break away from this dichotomy, we should not be afraid to question ourselves, our societies, our nations.

If a single different decision was taken in the past, the nation that most protected dharma today could be located somewhere else, but it happened to be India.

Perhaps this kind of realization is difficult because of ahamkhara, we are born in a country, we are raised in a religion and then anything that question their supremacy is a pest to be erradicated. What could also be why other people (specially Christians with their concept of an absolute external saviour) have the difficulty to accept something as Hindu. Hindus would never try to appropriate from a Christian ceremony and start making excuses: “No, the mass celebration was in fact proposed by the rishis, and bla bla…”, imagine that! :smiley: In my opinion the sole fact that Hinduism is self-contained and stable says a lot about its tradition and contents.

When Christianity was organized out of political interests, while Judaism only goes so far in history and can be traced back to other traditions (hindudharmaforums(dot)com/showthread.php?t=66), when the Judeo-Christian world view proved insufficient to mantain a healthy environment, a serious questioning must be made. And I (as a non-Indian and non-born Hindu) don’t say this in a preachy way, I’m not being condescending, I say this because that was and continues to be my own path.[/QUOTE]

All religions (whether sanathan or not) are the same. One can easily get this point if one reads Gita and understands it also. (In Gita, Krishna says that all paths and all people come to me). So, to think that Hinduism is better is as much good as thinking that Christianity is better…etc…!!

#139

Historicity fights are fruitless and prove very little. This should matter to Christians, otherwise their saviour never existed.

The funny thing is that the story of Jesus should be understood as a self-realization process, but instead it gets externalized and the man becomes a saviour. Go figure! We can’t really expect philosophical clarity from everyone.

This will clog and off-topic this thread back to Patala. :smiley:

[QUOTE=yaram;59504]All religions (whether sanathan or not) are the same. One can easily get this point if one reads Gita and understands it also. (In Gita, Krishna says that all paths and all people come to me). So, to think that Hinduism is better is as much good as thinking that Christianity is better…etc…!![/QUOTE]

Hello, I also use these objective factors to judge:

  • Philosophical clarity provided by a religious/philosophical school.
  • History of it. Its tradition. Was it modified for political motives?
  • Action of its participants and effect on the world.
  • Relation to me.

If we’re mentioning Christianity specifically, I could make a great list of negative items on each one.

Hinduism, satisfies all of them for me.

And I’m sorry, a religion that condemns half of the world to hell and says I’m gonna burn in eternal fire is not the same as Hinduism. Not for me.

God is the same (for me and Hinduism) but the reverse wouldn’t be true. Christianity would consider me a Godless heathen.

Non-duality is a nice concept for the Supreme, but while we’re here, discrimination is a great thing.

#140

[QUOTE=yaram;59502]1) Please pass me a link or resource to look for linages and generations of kings from 7000BCE to Chandragupta and mahabharatha kings? Or the greek historians books?

  1. Krishna’s City of Dwaraka, if it really exists, might have become more popular underwater city by now. It is just a PhD student’s play with some rocks on the sea bed.

  2. One can write a book when the event might have happened first like the river drying up !!

All these tales/itihas/puran are all present in Greek mythology and Persian mythology and Chinese mythology etc. How can one explain which one is older and which one is younger???[/QUOTE]

Hindus are not out there to convince other people of the historicity of our stories. We accept that a historian may consider them to be a mixture of history and mythology. There are even sects within Hinduism who don’t follow the puranic stories, but base their practice solely on a philosophical interpretation of the vedas. I am not one of them, but they exist and are equally Hindu. We do not call them heretics like the Christians would do. There are even certain sects of Shaivism (not all of them though) that don’t accept the puranic stories which are largely based Vishnu avataras. These shaivas are equally Hindu as well. That’s why even just a philosophical interpretation of yoga is still Hindu in nature, because it is based on the metaphysics of the vedas and upanishads.

Look most of Hindus believe in Krishna, we worship Krishna and we love him. But we don’t force others to do the same. We are even tolerant to people who believe in the flying spagetti monster. If someone comes to us and says “we believe in the flying spagetti monster.” We answer, “that is okay, build a church of your flying spagetti monster and worship him all you want.” The problem starts when the worshippers start telling us, “you have to worship the flying spagetti monster or else we make your life miserable and your god is a false god and a demon” which is what christian missionaries are doing in India.