Truth about yoga (a article for discussion)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#141

[QUOTE=Pietro Impagliazzo;59506]

Hello, I also use these objective factors to judge:

  • Philosophical clarity provided by a religious/philosophical school.
  • History of it. Its tradition. Was it modified for political motives?
  • Action of its participants and effect on the world.
  • Relation to me.

If we’re mentioning Christianity specifically, I could make a great list of negative items on each one.

Hinduism, satisfies all of them for me.

And I’m sorry, a religion that condemns half of the world to hell and says I’m gonna burn in eternal fire is not the same as Hinduism. Not for me.

God is the same (for me and Hinduism) but the reverse wouldn’t be true. Christianity would consider me a Godless heathen.

Non-duality is a nice concept for the Supreme, but while we’re here, discrimination is a great thing.[/QUOTE]

Your objective factors would get the same marks for Hinduism, if you are born as a non-Brahmin (non-priest) in India. :stuck_out_tongue:

#142

Most Hindus do not think history is important. To me history is important because it gives me an understanding how Hinduism developed. Although it is true Hinduism is santana dharma and can only be discovered - there is indeed a starting point for Hindu history:

http://ompage.net/Text/hindutimeline.htm

6776: Start of Hindu lists of kings according to ancient Greek references that give
Hindus 150 kings and a history of 6,400 years before 300bce; agrees with next
entry.

-6500: Rig Veda verses (e.g., 1.117.22, 1.116.12, 1.84.13.5) say winter solstice
begins in Aries (according to Dr. D. Frawley), indicating the antiquity of this section
of the Vedas.

The fact is Hindu history traces its origins back 10,000 years. Indeed we do find in the archeaological evidence Indian civilisation does go far that back. So our records and archeaology are in concord.

I can surmise somebody who denies this has an agenda.

#143

[QUOTE=yaram;59509]Your objective factors would get the same marks for Hinduism, if you are born as a non-Brahmin (non-priest) in India. :p[/QUOTE]
This is not the case. Hinduism has made it very easy for non Brahmin to reach their spiritual goals. Brahmins have to follow a lot of rules of purity, they have to meditate every day at dawn and dusk. When Pietro would go to a brahmana, he would say: “dhanyo’si dhanyo’si, you are so fortunate, you are so fortunate” and give him a simple practice to make a lot if progress on spiritual path.

#144

“While it may seem like a supremacy, it’s just common sense.”

Whether this is considered to be common sense or supremacy, no particular source of insight is more valuable than another. This is a religious debate, from which the origin of truth as remaining accessible without doctorine has been excluded. Truth extends beyond teaching of any kind.

#145

“All in all, it is just a game of who first saw the dinosaurs.”

Agreed.

Is anyone here interested in who the first individual to spark a flame was?

No, it is enough to retain the capacity to light a fire.

#146

People might not be interested in history, but they were still spreading misinformation regarding historical facts, a lot of which has been corrected by BryonMorrigon. Now one doesn’t need history to prove that yoga is Hindu, one can simply study the yoga shastras to make this conclusion.

#147

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59511]Most Hindus do not think history is important. To me history is important because it gives me an understanding how Hinduism developed. Although it is true Hinduism is santana dharma and can only be discovered - there is indeed a starting point for Hindu history:

6776: Start of Hindu lists of kings according to ancient Greek references that give
Hindus 150 kings and a history of 6,400 years before 300bce; agrees with next
entry.

-6500: Rig Veda verses (e.g., 1.117.22, 1.116.12, 1.84.13.5) say winter solstice
begins in Aries (according to Dr. D. Frawley), indicating the antiquity of this section
of the Vedas.

The fact is Hindu history traces its origins back 10,000 years. Indeed we do find in the archeaological evidence Indian civilisation does go far that back. So our records and archeaology are in concord.

I can surmise somebody who denies this has an agenda.[/QUOTE]

Does not make any difference…whether 10,000 years or 1 million years of history. The point is simple: One civilization with 10,000 years is a lot poorer than the other with 2,000 years of history. It is all about human welfare rather than “our forefathers were rich then, but now…???” kind of paradox.

Yes, I have an agenda…and that is truth based on reality as I see now, rather than guided by puran/history/sanskrit/god…etc.

#148

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59511]Most Hindus do not think history is important. To me history is important because it gives me an understanding how Hinduism developed. [/QUOTE]

Obviously history is extremely important to you and you?re quite passionate about it, perhaps you feel that you don?t know where you?re going till you know where you?ve been? Be careful your adamancy to vindicate Hinduism does not distract interest where Pietro Impagliazzo words invite one to explore.

#149

Does not make any difference…whether 10,000 years or 1 million years of history. The point is simple: One civilization with 10,000 years is a lot poorer than the other with 2,000 years of history. It is all about human welfare rather than “our forefathers were rich then, but now…???” kind of paradox.

Yes, I have an agenda…and that is truth based on reality as I see now, rather than guided by puran/history/sanskrit/god…etc.

It’s funny how anti-Hindu activists will bring up irrelevant details. If they can’t loot yoga, they will have to bring up how the British looted India and turned it in a third world country.

#150

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59530]It’s funny how anti-Hindu activists will bring up irrelevant details. If they can’t loot yoga, they will have to bring up how the British looted India and turned it in a third world country.[/QUOTE]

This is blaming others for your nation’s faults. British never told to Indian governments to loot/misgovern their own people.

Most Indians must have read in their History lessons both positive and negative things about British rule.

Britishers, in general, question almost everything, till they are convinced. Indians, most of them, for the most part, go by tradition/dogma and will end up with ineffective approach to situations. That is how Indians got ruled by Britishers :slight_smile:

Yoga is now not a Indian/Hindu thing as some of these forum members want to believe. The percentage of population who practice Yoga in India is far less compared to that of say USA (going by the real interest shown on Yoga blogs and YouTube).

P.S: I am Hindu and an Indian.

#151

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;59529] Be careful your adamancy to vindicate Hinduism does not distract interest where Pietro Impagliazzo words invite one to explore.[/QUOTE]

We need both the good cop and the bad cop. :stuck_out_tongue:

#152

I will have to underscore again, especially for Hindus, why knowing Hindu history and representing it as accurately and precisely as you can is very important. It is because the falsification of Hindu history is how the British tried to destroy Hindu civilisation. The are on record saying they wanted to falsify our history so they could destroy our civilisation. We are only having this debate about whether Yoga is from Hinduism because of the falsifications they produced.

Here is what they actually say about our history:

3000BCE and prior is the the Dravidian civilisation, the original dark skinned inhabitants. They have a sophisticated urban culture and represent the Sramana stream of philosophy from which Buddhism, Yoga and Jainism later evolve.

1500BCE: The Aryans invade India and drive the Dravidians southwards. They bring with them their nature religion of worshipping Vedic gods, the language of Sanskrit, caste system. They are savages, conduct animal sacrifices and occasional human sacrifices and discriminate against the dark skinned Indians. This is true Hinduism they state

500BCE: Buddhism and Jainism develops as the antihesis of the Vedic religion based on the pre-Vedic sramana stream of philosophy.

200BCE: Patanjali borrows heavily from Buddhism and Jainism to develop Hindu Yoga.

This is why you are getting clowns here denying Yoga originated in Hinduism and prefer to locate it in Buddhism or Jainism or the Dravidian culture of the Indus valley. This history that has been fabricated by Western scholars is trying to make it seem like Indian history is a history of conflict between Dravidian culture and Vedic culture, where Dravidian culture is spiritual and mystical and Vedic culture(being an off-shoot of Indo-European culture) is materialistic and aggressive.

David Frawley says it outright that this is nothing more than the negation of Hindu civilisation. It is not scholarship. It is in fact war. Hindus need to realise they are at war with the West. They are trying to destroy our civilisation. Not just steal Yoga from us, but actually completely wipe out our heritage.

#153

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;59537]We need both the good cop and the bad cop. :-P[/QUOTE]

and I was beginning to think there was no humor associated with Hinduism, I laugh!

#154

[QUOTE=yaram;59536]This is blaming others for your nation’s faults. British never told to Indian governments to loot/misgovern their own people.

Most Indians must have read in their History lessons both positive and negative things about British rule.

Britishers, in general, question almost everything, till they are convinced. Indians, most of them, for the most part, go by tradition/dogma and will end up with ineffective approach to situations. That is how Indians got ruled by Britishers :slight_smile:

Yoga is now not a Indian/Hindu thing as some of these forum members want to believe. The percentage of population who practice Yoga in India is far less compared to that of say USA (going by the real interest shown on Yoga blogs and YouTube).

P.S: I am Hindu and an Indian.[/QUOTE]

You have an inferiorty complex.

The Indian congress government is not a Hindu government in the first place. It’s policies are all still the same British policies that were created by the British. Only just last month a huge campaign was mounted to get rid of one of these oppressive policies by Anna Hazare, creating a nationwide movement.

#155

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59538]I will have to underscore again, especially for Hindus, why knowing Hindu history and representing it as accurately and precisely as you can is very important. It is because the falsification of Hindu history is how the British tried to destroy Hindu civilisation. The are on record saying they wanted to falsify our history so they could destroy our civilisation. We are only having this debate about whether Yoga is from Hinduism because of the falsifications they produced.

Here is what they actually say about our history:

3000BCE and prior is the the Dravidian civilisation, the original dark skinned inhabitants. They have a sophisticated urban culture and represent the Sramana stream of philosophy from which Buddhism, Yoga and Jainism later evolve.

1500BCE: The Aryans invade India and drive the Dravidians southwards. They bring with them their nature religion of worshipping Vedic gods, the language of Sanskrit, caste system. They are savages, conduct animal sacrifices and occasional human sacrifices and discriminate against the dark skinned Indians. This is true Hinduism they state

500BCE: Buddhism and Jainism develops as the antihesis of the Vedic religion based on the pre-Vedic sramana stream of philosophy.

200BCE: Patanjali borrows heavily from Buddhism and Jainism to develop Hindu Yoga.

This is why you are getting clowns here denying Yoga originated in Hinduism and prefer to locate it in Buddhism or Jainism or the Dravidian culture of the Indus valley. This history that has been fabricated by Western scholars is trying to make it seem like Indian history is a history of conflict between Dravidian culture and Vedic culture, where Dravidian culture is spiritual and mystical and Vedic culture(being an off-shoot of Indo-European culture) is materialistic and aggressive.

David Frawley says it outright that this is nothing more than the negation of Hindu civilisation. It is not scholarship. It is in fact war. Hindus need to realise they are at war with the West. They are trying to destroy our civilisation. Not just steal Yoga from us, but actually completely wipe out our heritage.[/QUOTE]

So, this kind of fear that someone steals (or has stolen) your valuables can be overcome by practicing Yoga. :stuck_out_tongue:

It does not matter whether Yoga is from Hinduism or from a sect on planet Jupiter as long as one can see the benifit out it and practices.

#156

India got ruled by the British because it was a highly fragmented and divided country due to centuries of wars between Hindu kingdoms and Muslim kingdoms. It has nothing to do with Indian culture. I recently had this conversation in another thread who stated the myth that India never defended itself because it is otherwordly/ascetic. No, actually the truth is India never stopped defending itself. We fought tooth and nail with Muslims and the British.
We fought constant wars with them. It was due to this, Muslims got nowhere near South India(hence why all the ancient temples are still intact) and why Christians failed to convert India.

We are a 80% Hindu country after 1000 years of domination by first Muslims and then Christians.

Can you not see how strong the Hindu warrior spirit is? Are the Hindus on this board not indication enough :wink:

#157

It does not matter whether Yoga is from Hinduism or from a sect on planet Jupiter as long as one can see the benifit out it and practices.

I am not sure why they are mutually contadictory notions. They both matter. The benefits of Yoga matter and its science, history and philosophy matter too.

You cannot understand Yoga without first understanding Hinduism. Otherewise you will not be able to appreciate it. Just as you cannot appreciate it.

You are not a Hindu in my book mate. A Hindu does not reject the Vedas. As Hinduism is the Vedic religion, rejecting the Vedas gets you excommunicated out of it. It is akin to rejecting the Buddha in Buddhism or Jesus in Christianity.

#158

“A Hindu does not reject the Vedas. As Hinduism is the Vedic religion, rejecting the Vedas gets you excommunicated out of it. It is akin to rejecting the Buddha in Buddhism or Jesus in Christianity.”

An intelligent individual rejects all three, as fixed identities.

These remain as useful tools for practice, and are then at once cast aside.

#159

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59546]I am not sure why they are mutually contadictory notions. They both matter. The benefits of Yoga matter and its science, history and philosophy matter too.

You cannot understand Yoga without first understanding Hinduism. Otherewise you will not be able to appreciate it. Just as you cannot appreciate it.

You are not a Hindu in my book mate. A Hindu does not reject the Vedas. As Hinduism is the Vedic religion, rejecting the Vedas gets you excommunicated out of it. It is akin to rejecting the Buddha in Buddhism or Jesus in Christianity.[/QUOTE]

I never wanted a certificate from somebody on whether I am a Hindu or not.
I never studied vedas as they do not have a reference to google, facebook, twitter and yotube :o
I never rejected vedas. However, I must say, they are of no practical value and have some abstract concepts about gods and other things. Nothing of utility has come out of vedas.

There are many better Yoga people that I know who are not Hindus and some of them have written very good books.

#160

“It is obvious why Buddhism has the same philosophies and practices - because it an off-shoot of Hinduism.”

That is not the fundamental reason - it is because both the Hindus and the Buddhists have been investigating into the same realities, although their words, descriptions, and interpretations may be different. And it is not something unique to the traditions that have happened in India. The Ancient Egyptians were as deeply involved in the spiritual sciences and the work of the expansion of consciousness as the Hindus. That they were aware of “reincarnation” is not because they were imitating the Hindus, it is because once you penetrate into the deep levels of the unconscious, one can remember past lives, at times with minute detail. And if there have been past lives, certainly there are going to be future lives. That there are various levels of energy within man which constitute the same levels of energy within the universe itself, from the “physical”, to the “astral”, to the “spiritual” - is not unique either. What the Hindus referred to as the sukshma sarira is basically the same as what the ancient Egyptians called the Ka. What was known as prana amongst the Hindus, was known as Chi amongst the Chinese, mana amongst the Polynesians, and Pneuma amongst the Greeks. Pythagoras also spoke of the same knowledge, which he likely learned from Egypt, and which he waited for several years to become initiated into the mystery schools. And there is a reason why modern archeologists have found the discoveries in Egypt to be a mystery - because there are certain things which are of such mathematical precision, as well as astronomically precise, that they are considered monumental even by today’s standards, and in some cases, extending beyond even what modern science is capable.

Truth is universal, it does not belong to any tradition, philosophy, or religion. Existence itself is not Hindu anymore than the trees, mountains, and rivers are Hindu. Unless one drops these identifications which are just intended to protect one’s limited identity, and become receptive to a force which is far beyond your own ego, then one has yet to come to the maturity that is needed in the search for Truth.