Om ! Gods ! With ears let us hear what is good;
Adorable ones ! With eyes let us see what is good.
With steady limbs, with bodies, praising,
Let us enjoy the life allotted by the gods.
Invocation from Tripura Tapini Upanishad
@Suhas Tambe
You seem to be advocating mind-less-ness as opposed to mind-full-ness.
@Suhas
So if we “think” about staying present, that moment has passed and with that mind set we cannot be present. We just need to be. No thought of this or that. The mind creates thoughts. So the key is cultivating “no mind”. With no mind, you can’t perceive the senses, thus becoming one with them. Simply put in my terms, but am I understanding this correctly?
LG,
You are right. Now, in this context read what Amir has written.
@Suhas,
I’ve re-read Amir’s post and piggybacked with yours, the explanation of no mind is actually quite simple to grasp. That is if one is open to grasping it! The whole concept of mindfulness is what drew me to Buddhism in the first place. Thanks Suhas and Amir for sharing this.
@Suhas & LG
Yes, I see Amir’s explanation is very clear and I have no quarrel with it. You seem to be talking about perception without intervening thought processes, which is all well and good. Too much intellectualizing defeats the purpose.
Clarity of perception is a worthy goal. By that I mean not just correctly interpreting raw sense data, but understanding human interactions and grasping the essence of problems that arise in day to day life, which we achieve through engaging the here and now. Let’s not forget that is also a function of the mind. There is also a time for planning, for thinking about the future, and for reflecting on the past. This can be difficult to reconcile if our stated goal is to always remain engaged in the present moment.
Asuri,
You are absolutely right. A life is to be lived. That’s why Yoga is not a leap. As the seeker transforms into an enlightened Yogi, the mode in which one engages with the ‘here and now’ changes gradually. With the mind standing aside during sadhana the dependence on thoughts-based knowledge diminishes, but it continues otherwise to take care of present and future material life.
Soon the purified mind becomes the source of knowledge replacing the sense-data and thoughts. Slowly one can extend this mode for even ordinary livining because by then the ‘life of a yogi’ becomes spiritual. Then the brain, the thought-processor, becomes a reservoir and user (and no more a generator) of knowledge.
This total transformation of mind makes ‘no-mind’ state feasible.
[QUOTE=The Scales;55306]I’m so sick of this new agey bull garbage.
With all it’s rainbows and puppy dogs!
When your thinking your thinking. When your remembering your remembering. When you eat and watch football - guess what? Your eating and watching football.
BLAH BLAH BLAH PRESENT MOMENT LIVE IN IT YA DA DA YADA BULL GARBAGE.
So what?[/QUOTE]
I agree with you about New age superficiality but this matter of living in present
is very core of yoga and all real religion.
Amir and Suhas…thank you for your information…I heard a theory that past present and future all happen at once…really…
It is impossible to live in the present. When we become witness to a moment, what we are witnessing is a memory of that moment because the moment has happened and past long before we are aware of it. So, we are always aware and living in the past - even a brief ‘moment-ago’ past. The best we can achieve is living in the ‘very-near past’. And time is not without its malices. Even that ‘very-near past’ becomes coloured through filtration of the memory and its recorded experiences. That ‘very-near past’ moment never was that of which you are mindful, but merely your own interpretation of the moment you remember.
Now my son wants me to watch Bugs Bunny with him…
I have already said that there are two kinds of living in the present. Mindfulness is not living in the present, it is living in everyday life but just being attentive. When one really is really in the present, they are at the pulse of the cosmos itself. At this moment there is neither past or future, it all comes to an end.
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;55346]@Prasad…yes, quite nice. Thank you.
@Scales…
Are you referring to Thich Nhat Hanh in the above?[/QUOTE]
JUST IN GENERAL.
Lots of talk. talk. talk.
[QUOTE=lascar;55388]I agree with you about New age superficiality but [B]this matter of living in present
is very core of yoga and all real religion.[/B][/QUOTE]
would you please elaborate?
You guys are really over-thinking this.
Previous post was directed @ FlexPenguin and Surya Deva.
What it boils down to is how do you define a moment of time? If you say that a moment of time is a measurement that is fixed and is infinitely small, then possibly it is so small that by the time we perceive it, it’s already past. I say a moment of time is not fixed, it is relative, and not relative just according to size or scale but also relative according to our perception. We may perceive a moment of time as an instant, or something smaller than a second, or we may perceive it as something of longer duration. Either way we do perceive the passage of time and we may or may not perceive the present moment depending on the state of our awareness.
In the yogic philosophical perspective it is the dropping or ceasing of identification with thought-based or mental phenomena within the field of Consciousness and still moving beyond to even more subtle realms…Actually when one does that bliss arises naturallY hence why they call it [I]Satchidanada[/I] or pure bliss consciousness.
In the yogic philosophical perspective and on a siimple level it is the ceasing or dropping of identification with thought-based or mental phenomena within the field of Consciousness but still also whatever “stuff” beyond that in the even more subtle realms .When one does that bliss arisees naturally hence why they call it [I]Satchidanada[/I] or pure blsss Consciousness.
When you live in the present moment you live from a state of pure awareness, so without the machinations, constructions & projections of the mind, entanglements in illlusion etc etc.Even the very concept of Mind or living in the present moment is dropped. This is just anothe concept you let go of.Also you need to bear in mind that the concept of mind in eastern philosophy and western philosophy is not the same. This point is very important.To not get it will usually mean that much of yogic philosphy is not grasped. The mind from the eastern philosphical view is actually another veil of consciousness.Indeed SD called it another form or manifestation of maatter just like the physcial body. In western universities it is usually referred to as the source of consciousness itself so it takes or assumes a very narrow view.It is actually quite reveltaory to first hear it talked of in those wider terms.
So if we’re not body or mind who or what is it thaty is being aware.Well the idea of the witness consciousness is central to much yogic philosophy,advaita vedanta, non-dualistic philosophies etc etc. I will say this that the term mindfulness I’m pretty sure is a buddhist concept.It is being aware of the mind or that you have one.So it aalright to have one but you just identify with it less.Indeed you drop the concept as well as the indentifications. S thoughts can arise,; this is perfectly okay and fine. You just watch them as a play on your consciousness, you bear witness that is neither attracted or averse to any mental or thought-based phenomena that may arise…
There is a concept called the kilshtas/aklilshtas which talk of the colouring of perceptions.Swamiji talks about it here.You may find it interesting.It also talks about how to witness your thoughts and such like.
Mindfulness, in Buddhism, is seeing things in their natural state. No judgement or biases. It is mirror thought. The mind observes without criticism. No rejection…only acceptance.
In his book, “Mindfulness in plain English”, Gunaratana gives a wonderful analogy. He says when you are remembering your second grade teacher, that is a memory. When you then become aware that you are remembering your second grade teacher, that is mindfulness.
Mindfulness stops you from adding anything to perception or subtracting anything from it. Just observe without distortion.
[QUOTE=Asuri;55426]Previous post was directed @ FlexPenguin and Surya Deva.
What it boils down to is how do you define a moment of time? If you say that a moment of time is a measurement that is fixed and is infinitely small, then possibly it is so small that by the time we perceive it, it’s already past. I say a moment of time is not fixed, it is relative, and not relative just according to size or scale but also relative according to our perception. We may perceive a moment of time as an instant, or something smaller than a second, or we may perceive it as something of longer duration. Either way we do perceive the passage of time and we may or may not perceive the present moment depending on the state of our awareness.[/QUOTE]
I get the concept of mindfulness, but veer off when this is discussed in tandem with time, i.e. living in the present/past/future. Being here now is all about mindfulness and I practice yoga to not only be more aware and mindful, but to develop the capacity to steady my mind enough so as to not ‘colour’ the ‘now’ with experiences of the past or expectations of the future.
The being here now experience means that I can reflect on the past and anticipate the future, I just do so while remaining in the here and now and careful not to project my self backward or forward - if that makes any sense. Maybe I am overthinking a bit.
Mindfulness, in Buddhism, is seeing things in their natural state. No judgement or biases. It is mirror thought. The mind observes without criticism. No rejection…only acceptance.
That is a tall order. We already biassing our perception simply through the process of apprehending it through our senses, mind and applying language. We can only be as objective as our senses and language allows. To see things as they really are requires bypassing the senses, mind and language.
To truly to get to the moment requires meditation to become aware of the gaps between thoughts. At present consciousness we are not aware of the gaps between thoughts, so we maintain an illusion of continuity.
Yes it is a tall order. But a worthwhile one to pursue. It takes diligence. But haven’t you ever had a gap in your thoughts while meditating? Once you are aware of that gap, it’s gone. It’s getting beyond that “awareness” of the gap between thoughts that takes immense concentration. I’ve only had little snippets. But those snippets are what keeps me coming back.