[size=“7”][size=“5”]paradox[/size][/size]
So lets stop talking?
He liberates you from philosophy and from religion and from theology. He liberates you, in short, from the world of words ? because the word is the problem. - OSHO
Not necessarily.
Reading the many AmirMourad-Surya Deva threads provokes much self questioning however, if progressive stages of self-awareness are more about empting one?s mind of conceptual nonsense is it not counterproductive to fill ones head with intellectual scrutiny. Although practice seems most productive the gaps between practices do allow importance of this existence to be viewed more clearly.
[QUOTE=bjoy;59341] ? because the word is the problem. - OSHO[/QUOTE]
“Osho” as in “Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh born Rajneesh Chandra Mohan” or the Japanese term used in various schools of Buddhism?
Surya,
“You have nothing to show for yourself. This is why one must at least reach stage 1: control over body, before they start teaching”
Even infinite amount of control and self-discipline cannot replace a particle of authentic insight. As long as you have yet to understand this - you will continue mistaking cheap tricks which are just intended to nourish your ego as a great attainment. There are fools who practice almost forty years just to learn how to sleep on beds of nails, or to swallow razor blades without cutting the interiority, or walking on burning hot coals. You should understand their reasons for consciously trying to develop such capabilities. It is because they are identified with a philosophy which states that the physical body is a bondage, and the physical world itself in fact is by nature destined for nothing else except suffering. So, in order to make room for a higher power, you have to conquer the body. And it is not a coincidence that all of those people who have been obsessed with the body, such as the majority of these hatha yogis, have only become more and more egoistic. They may have awakened siddhis, but otherwise inwardly they do not have even a glimmer of insight into existence. And that this condemnation of the body is strange, because the body is the only part of you which is striving hard to be in tune with nature. If there is even a small imbalance, now your system starts working hard to rectify the problem. All of the essential processes, nature has given to the body - not to the mind. If they were in your own hands, then it would have been disasterous. If you became depressed, you may forget to breathe. Thankfully, all of the essential processes have been given to the body.
The majority of man’s sufferings are entirely psychological, they have their root causes at the level of the mind. No amount of control either over the mind or the body is going to be capable of weeding out the root causes of one’s ignorance.
The development of siddhis is not a necessity to awakening, and although I have awakened several and in fact have consciously developed them as part of my own work - I do not consider them to be of any value, nor would I even do something as vulgar as demonstrating them. To develop them is just nothing - all that is needed is enough repetition and mechanical training. Just as one can develop the body in certain ways just through mechanical repetition in a gym, the same is the case with the mind. And in fact, it is only because you have created a misery out of your own mind that you want to control it and repress it. That is why all of this business about controlling the mind has arisen. The mind does not need to be controlled, what is needed is to liberate the mind. The difference between the two is enormous.
"You are not a humble person because you claim
- You are a Buddha
- Your knowledge is all your own
- You discovered meditation by yourself"
If I were an egoist, I would be trying to make myself appear humble. A humble ego is far more dangerous than one which is gross, simply because it is so subtle. That is not my approach, I simply see rivers are rivers, and mountains as mountains. Although “awakening” is just a concept, when I say that I have come to my awakening it just means that I have seen directly into my true nature and the transformation that arises out of such an experience. And I am still in the process of integrating it, my work is not complete.
“Amir even if you were to disappear of this planet the next moment nobody would notice you are gone”
Certainly. And one day the whole humanity will be gone. Whether you have lived as a “good” man or a “bad” man, makes no difference to the universe. Life is beyond any meaning, the life of man is not any more significant than the life of a fly. But - that does not mean that you simply adopt a nihilistic approach and start living foolishly. The fact is that when one’s consciousness is in communion with nature - compassion is a natural by product. And it is the very nature of compassion to try and assist others towards their own freedom. One sees very clearly that a whole paradise is available, and yet man- groping in the dark, cuts himself off from it in a blink of an eye.
“No, you got your knowledge from books. You read A LOT. We know you have read a lot becaue you are always quoting, citing stories, ancedotes, teachings, histories, philosophies from everything”
If I have knowledge, that does not mean that I am clinging to knowledge, or that this knowledge determines by inner being. And I can have little or much knowledge - it makes no difference to my inner awareness. It is your own stupidity which has seen possession of knowledge as meaning that one has no direct realization of one’s own. Even in Hinduism, which you are speaking of again and again with fondness, many yogis and sages were educated in the scriptures. But that does not mean that they had no direct experience of their own, nor does it mean that they do not possess their own inner understanding. As far as your own experience is concerned, whether I am awakened or not is irrelevant as at present you have only the option of believing or disbelieving. If you believe it, it will not bring you even a step closer to Truth. If you do not believe it, the situation is the same. So I would put this matter aside completely, and simply be receptive to whatever is capable of striking an insight within you which may be helpful for your own work. If no insight arises from what I am saying - there is no problem. You can continue on your way, perhaps there may be another source which is capable of triggering it. The whole vastness of life itself is available, I am certain if you are receptive enough you can manage it.
“Sorry to be harsh - but you’re not needed.”
I don’t care. I will continue speaking anyway. Even those people you mentioned, they are not needed. Gautama Buddha was here, thousands upon thousands of masters - both known and unknown have been here, and still humanity has remained as blind and asleep has been for ages. If any real transformation will occur - it will be because the average state of consciousness of the average individual has been transformed. As long as wisdom is something which is as rare as finding a pearl in the desert - then even a million gods will not be of any help. So no, I am not needed and my actions are insignificant. But that does not mean I will remain silent.
Scales,
“I do not believe OSHO to be of saintly character. My opinion is that he is a thief, a fraud, a phony, a charlatan, and a criminal of the highest order.”
I am not speaking in support of him or anybody else. But as I have said before - it is very difficult to tell who is awakened and who is not. The fact is that to assume whether another is or is not awakened is to assume that you already know it, that you have already come to the space. Otherwise, how can one recognize it in another ?
You are in no position at all to state who has come to their awakening or not, because you yourself have remained in a deep sleep. I am not saying this with any kind of resentment or with an intention of making you feel inferior. Most people don’t like to hear it - that they are living out of unawareness. Either they are entangled in this idea that to be awake is superior, or they are just far more interested in living in a way which provides comfort and security. But unless one recognizes one’s own condition, there is not even a possibility of understanding it, much less moving beyond it.
Even infinite amount of control and self-discipline cannot replace a particle of authentic insight.
You don’t have particle of authentic insight, but a morass of delusion. Everything you say is either a contradiction or a lie. Like you reinvented meditation 
All the highly developed masters had siddhis. You cannot not have them when you reach higher levels of spiritual development. The monks who were tested in scientific labs who could change the temperature of their body etc, did not attempt to awaken them, they had them naturally as a result of spiritual practice.
Like I said the reason you oppose siddhis is because they falsify your ridiculous claim of you being the Buddha.
The development of siddhis is not a necessity to awakening, and although I have awakened several and in fact have consciously developed them as part of my own work - I do not consider them to be of any value, nor would I even do something as vulgar as demonstrating them.
If you are going to claim to have siddhis but not demonstrate them, then don’t claim them in the first place. Amir you need to learn to shut up on matters that you cannot prove - like your “enlightenment” and your claims to having re-invented meditation and all knowledge.
The mind does not need to be controlled, what is needed is to liberate the mind. The difference between the two is enormous.
Rubbish, in the East the most popular metaphor used for the mind is a wild beast or a tornado that needs to be gradually bought under control. This is common to Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. In the Gita Krishna says the mind needs to be bought under control. Patanjali also talks about controlling the vrittis. So does Buddha by controlling desires and hence thoughts. So does Yogananda.
It is apparent to any sane person that control over the mind is absolutely necessary. If somebody thinking of raping somebody did not control their mind we would have a rapist on our hands. I can see why you advocate no control, because you have let the delusions of your mind control everything about you.
If I were an egoist, I would be trying to make myself appear humble.
Rather the truth is you are an egoist and that is why you are not humble. A humble person is just an honest person. You are the amongst the most dishonest people on this forum. You claim to have invented meditation by yourself - when you learned the techniques from books. You claim to have discovered all knowledge by yourself - when you learned it from books. You claim to be a Buddha - when you are the complete opposite of Buddha.
That is not my approach, I simply see rivers are rivers, and mountains as mountains.
So does 99.9% of this world you joker 
Next thing you are going to tell me is you are enlightened because you can cut a slice of bread
If I have knowledge, that does not mean that I am clinging to knowledge, or that this knowledge determines by inner being. And I can have little or much knowledge - it makes no difference to my inner awareness.
That was not the point. The point you got this knowledge from books and did not discover it by yourself. Admit it and maybe there is hope your delusion can be reversed.
Even in Hinduism, which you are speaking of again and again with fondness, many yogis and sages were educated in the scriptures. But that does not mean that they had no direct experience of their own, nor does it mean that they do not possess their own inner understanding.
Of course they had their own experiences and understanding - but they initially had to get the knowledge and learn the techniques. Like you have as well. Admit it. Tell us your sources. What books did you first read and where did you learn to meditate. Stop being an arrogant tool and claim you did it all by yourself - because even the Buddha would not let you get away with that one.
I don’t care. I will continue speaking anyway.
So do fools. You are babbling on like a fool not realising that you alienated the listener a long time ago and are wasting your breath and energy. Nobody takes you seriously. Have you noticed not a single person is defending you and a growing number of people are criticizing you? Your chances of finding a disciple on this forum is as good as me finding my future wife on this forum
You are simply unbelievable. I have not yet come across somebody so deluded. Even my new-age friend who thought she was an ascended master snapped out of it. Now she’s a Reiki master
Ivana,
You got it.
nothingness is… presence of absence… void… sunayata.
[QUOTE=prasad;60315]Ivana,
You got it.
nothingness is… presence of absence… void… sunayata.[/QUOTE]
Prasasad i hope it will be opinion of my examiner as well.
take care
Ivana