What is the difference between Samadhi and Samyama?


#1

I’m confused…does Samyama assist you to achieve Samadhi?:confused:


#2

Аccording to Patanjali, Samyama is Dharana -> Dhyana -> Samadhi


#3

Samyama is basically a type of samadhi where the object duality still remains. It gives you perfect control over your object allowing you to see its essential reality and manipulate it as well.

The third chapter of the Yoga sutras is my favourite! I mean Patanjali really does not hold any bars when it comes to the kind of psychic powers you can develop. Your typical psychic development guide mentions clairvoyance, clauraudience, empathy, psychometry but Patanjali is straight in there with teleportation, levitation, invisibility, size manipulation, control of all the elements, entering the mind of another and even taking control of their body!


#4

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34760]Samyama is basically a type of samadhi where the object duality still remains. It gives you perfect control over your object allowing you to see its essential reality and manipulate it as well.

The third chapter of the Yoga sutras is my favourite! I mean Patanjali really does not hold any bars when it comes to the kind of psychic powers you can develop. Your typical psychic development guide mentions clairvoyance, clauraudience, empathy, psychometry but Patanjali is straight in there with teleportation, levitation, invisibility, size manipulation, control of all the elements, entering the mind of another and even taking control of their body![/QUOTE]

I thought Samadhi was a ‘state of bliss’, what do you mean Samaya is a [U]type of Samadhi[/U], what are the other types?

Do you realy think [I]‘teleportation, levitation, invisibility, size manipulation, control of all the elements, entering the mind of another and even taking control of their body’[/I] is possible? When I read chapter 3 of the sutras I did find it a tough nut to swallow. I know the Bible says that if your faith is strong enough you can move mountains, I’ve just never seen or expereinced it in reality!

Has anyone managed this?!


#5

My understanding is that what is termed Samyama (see Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras) is what makes use of the last limbs, Google ‘Samyama’.

Various sources on google say the last 3 although you could include pratyahara too in there to facilitate it,make it easier.

So essentially it is making use of the last 3 or 4 of the limbs within a practice,as far as my understanding albeit limted is to what it might be.

I have actually practiced something that was termed Samyama practice in terms of introducing sutras,very faint psycho-emotional impulses you might describe them as (rather than thoughts technically speaking ,i’e before the thoughts emerge ,have normally formed but more right at the point of the entertaining, i.e right on the cusp, or take shape as such) and the letting them go, i.e into the void,inner silence,inner space etc. .Such a practice depends though to som extent on the cultivation of inner silence,awareness of real self, awareness aware of itself,stillness,witness state, awarness of self/spriit,beyond illusion though which you can get from deep forms of meditation or japa/mantra yoga.

Perhaps Surya Deva could indeed expand on what he might be suggesting by Samayama being a form of Samadhi.I think Samyama can (and does) indeed make use of Samadhi ,i.e complete absorbtion,in whatever degree or grade possible.Interesting.


#6

[QUOTE=omamana;34764]I thought Samadhi was a ‘state of bliss’, what do you mean Samaya is a [U]type of Samadhi[/U], what are the other types?

Do you realy think [I]‘teleportation, levitation, invisibility, size manipulation, control of all the elements, entering the mind of another and even taking control of their body’[/I] is possible? When I read chapter 3 of the sutras I did find it a tough nut to swallow. I know the Bible says that if your faith is strong enough you can move mountains, I’ve just never seen or expereinced it in reality!

Has anyone managed this?![/QUOTE]

Namaste,

Samadhi does not translate to a state of bliss, although that is one of the subjective sensations associated with it. Samadhi means perfect consciousness or perfect mind. Patanjali mentions two types of samadhi and they are samadhi with object and samadhi without object(there are grades in between) The samadhi with object is when you have perfect object-consciousness in that you will be in resonance with the very essence of the object. Samadhi without object is when you have objectless consciousness and simply abide in pure “I-am-ness” This is that state that cannot be talked about because it is ineffable and beyond words. It is often subjectively described as pure bliss, infinite love etc

Although Patanjali describes Samayama(perfect control) as a combination of Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi he does not literally mean Samayama is a combination. What he means these are the preceeding steps before one attains Samayama. He describes various Samayama techniques in chapter 3 based on the object you start with in Dharana. So, for example if you focus on the crown chakra. Then after a while you focus will become highly concentrated and then you will enter the state of Dhyana on the crown chakra. Then when your Dhyana becomes even more highly concentrated after a certain period you enter into resonance with the crown chakra and this is when you enter the first stages of Samadhi and then Samayama on the crown chakra. He says this Samayama will bring visions from masters and sages.

Now do these abilities really exist? The best way to find out is find out for yourself. I may have accidentally a Samayama experience myself after doing after a japa meditation where I was simply repeating a thought over and over again and I was actually thinking of a star system known as the Pleaides(sp?) After a while, something really strange happened, I felt like I was moving through space and my mind became like a television receiver forming static which I could both see and hear, and then as if it was tuning into a station I could make out a signal being received. It definitely felt like a communication was taking place. It lasted a few seconds and then ended. I have since not been able to repeat this exactly.

Much of the Samayama techniques Patanjali describes can be explained using quantum mechanics, because oddly enough, quantum mechanics gives more or less the same explanation for how teleportation and levitation is achieived. For example Patanjali talks about doing Samayama on a force within the akasha known as the udana vayu(upwards force) and this allows one to control this force to push our body above the ground causing us to levitate whereby we can walk over water or even fly. QM describes a very similar process on how levitation is achieived, it is achieived by generating a force known as the casimir force from the quantum and reversing its polarity to push upwards causing objects to levitate. This has already been achieived but only to at a micro level so far.

Patanjali also describes teleportation very similar to how quantum mechanics describes it. He says by doing Samayama on ones body and its position in the akasha one can collapse themselves into light(he says light as a cotton, but this is a metaphor) and thereby gain passage into the channels in the akasha you can appear anywhere. In QM theoretically this is possible because all objects also have a wavefunction and all objects can be collapsed into their wavefunction whereby through quantum tunneling they can be transmited through quantum channels.

Even the explanation Patanjali gives for how invisibility is achieived is very scientifically sound. He says that by Samayama on the light element in the body one is able to completely absorb all light. This will by definition make you invisible because you cannot see something if it does not reflect any light.

I think it is very likely then that Patanjali really is describing real abilities that one attains when they can do Samayama. Now it would be very nice to see actual yogis that can do this. I have heard countless stories from yogis that they can do this. One really interesting one was being told by Swami Nithyananda where his guru was teaching him the technique of Samayama on a nadi(pranic channel) known as kurma nadi, which when pressed completely arrests the movement of the body(more importantly the eyes) His guru pressed his kurma nadi with such intent and focus that Nithyananda went into Samayama. He then told him to look up in the sky, and to the absolute shock of Nithyananda he could see directly into space very clearly the sun, stars, planets. He asked his guru how could this be possible and the guru explained that the eyes has a micro movement which causes us to mistake the frequencies of light we are receiving and perceive the sky as blue, but by the pressing the nadi its movement was completely arrested, so as a result the blue layer disappeared. The explanation makes a lot of sense!

I understand one can be really skeptical when they hear about miracles like this but when the miracle is explained so scientifically that it makes sense and when reliable authorities like yogic gurus and experts like Patanjali confirming them, and the fact that these powers have been witnessed in all human cultures on the planet, I can no longer maintain skepticism.


#7

Namaste Surya Deva,

Wow, thank you for your thorough explanation, I found it very interesting to read, especially your ‘going into space’ experience. I have only read the Sutras once to get a general idea, I now plan to read them again (slowly this time) and include meditation and in-depth study to develop my understanding.

Don’t worry I for one am not a sceptic when it comes to miracles, as a Christian I very much believe in miracles, we are surrounded by them daily, if we choose to see them. :wink:

Do you think phenomenon such as levitation, teleportation, invisibility etc are ‘states of mind’ or ‘mind control’ rather than tangible realities? Can we not do anything with the ‘mind and in God’s spirit’? Does one need to really see it for it to be real, or can an experience within the mind be a reality? :rolleyes:


#8

Do you think phenomenon such as levitation, teleportation, invisibility etc are ‘states of mind’ or ‘mind control’ rather than tangible realities? Can we not do anything with the ‘mind and in God’s spirit’? Does one need to really see it for it to be real, or can an experience within the mind be a reality? :rolleyes:

Thank you Omamaana,

In the context of Samayama they are definitely mind control. The word itself means perfect mind control. I recently had a discussion in another thread that it is already clear that we already do control things with our mind. For example with a conscious mind we can control our breathing, motor organs and blood flow around the body etc. However, after doing Yoga and attaining higher states consciousness, and this is now scientifically proven beyond doubt, we can control otherwise involuntary body functions like regulating the heart beat, body temperature, brainwave activity, nervous system, thrist/hunger etc. Now who knows what else is possible at even deeper levels of consciousness.

I think what is clear though that mind does indeed control matter in the body at least. However, controlling matter at any point in space means it can control matter anywhere else as well according to quantum mechanics(through quantum channels). So anything that is possible that can be done with technology, can be done with the mind as well. Now as we know levitation is indeed possible by generating a quantum force and pushing the object, I see no reason why mind could not do the same.

I think you would like reading the modern day Yoga classic Autobigraphy of a Yogi by Swami Yogananda Paramhansa. It is full of accounts of Swami Yogananda encountering Yogis in the Himalayas with amazing mind control abilities. There is one particular story that when I read I found it staggering, and it is said so casually as if its just an ordinary event. I will cite that now:

My solitary musings were interrupted by the sound of approaching footsteps. In the darkness, a man’s hand gently helped me to my feet, and gave me some dry clothing.

"‘Come, brother,’ my companion said. ‘The master awaits you.’

"He led the way through the forest. The somber night was suddenly lit by a steady luminosity in the distance.

"‘Can that be the sunrise?’ I inquired. ‘Surely the whole night has not passed?’

"‘The hour is midnight.’ My guide laughed softly. 'Yonder light is the glow of a golden palace, materialized here tonight by the peerless Babaji. In the dim past, you once expressed a desire to enjoy the beauties of a palace. Our master is now satisfying your wish, thus freeing you from the bonds of karma.'4 He added, ‘The magnificent palace will be the scene of your initiation tonight into Kriya Yoga. All your brothers here join in a paean of welcome, rejoicing at the end of your long exile. Behold!’

"A vast palace of dazzling gold stood before us. Studded with countless jewels, and set amidst landscaped gardens, it presented a spectacle of unparalleled grandeur. Saints of angelic countenance were stationed by resplendent gates, half-reddened by the glitter of rubies. Diamonds, pearls, sapphires, and emeralds of great size and luster were imbedded in the decorative arches.

"I followed my companion into a spacious reception hall. The odor of incense and of roses wafted through the air; dim lamps shed a multicolored glow. Small groups of devotees, some fair, some dark-skinned, chanted musically, or sat in the meditative posture, immersed in an inner peace. A vibrant joy pervaded the atmosphere.

"‘Feast your eyes; enjoy the artistic splendors of this palace, for it has been brought into being solely in your honor.’ My guide smiled sympathetically as I uttered a few ejaculations of wonderment.

"‘Brother,’ I said, ‘the beauty of this structure surpasses the bounds of human imagination. Please tell me the mystery of its origin.’

"‘I will gladly enlighten you.’ My companion’s dark eyes sparkled with wisdom. 'In reality there is nothing inexplicable about this materialization. The whole cosmos is a materialized thought of the Creator. This heavy, earthly clod, floating in space, is a dream of God. He made all things out of His consciousness, even as man in his dream consciousness reproduces and vivifies a creation with its creatures.

"'God first created the earth as an idea. Then He quickened it; energy atoms came into being. He coordinated the atoms into this solid sphere. All its molecules are held together by the will of God. When He withdraws His will, the earth again will disintegrate into energy. Energy will dissolve into consciousness; the earth-idea will disappear from objectivity.

"'The substance of a dream is held in materialization by the subconscious thought of the dreamer. When that cohesive thought is withdrawn in wakefulness, the dream and its elements dissolve. A man closes his eyes and erects a dream-creation which, on awakening, he effortlessly dematerializes. He follows the divine archetypal pattern. Similarly, when he awakens in cosmic consciousness, he will effortlessly dematerialize the illusions of the cosmic dream.

"‘Being one with the infinite all-accomplishing Will, Babaji can summon the elemental atoms to combine and manifest themselves in any form. This golden palace, instantaneously created, is real, even as this earth is real. Babaji created this palatial mansion out of his mind and is holding its atoms together by the power of his will, even as God created this earth and is maintaining it intact.’ He added, ‘When this structure has served its purpose, Babaji will dematerialize it.’

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap34.html

Staggering!


#9

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34802]Staggering![/QUOTE]

In deed it is Staggering. Actually, only last week I bought ‘Autobigraphy of a Yogi’, looking forward to reading it even more now!


#10

In pratyahara, one develops ability to undock from the objects without and anchor attention to the images within. This happens at will. This also slowly converts ability to conentrate into dharana. (Dharana is inadequately translated as concentration) Dharana begins with images of the objects and gradually makes subtle impressions as target. Dhyana is sustained dharana. There is a great difference between achieving dharana and then holding it. Dhyana also takes the skill of concentration further into absorption so that you become the object of your meditation. Samadhi dissolves even awareness that an object, howsoever subtle, is a target. This paves way to remain absorbed even in nothingness. When a desire is associated with samadhi it is sabija and a desireless state is nirbija. (Bija means seed)

However, in the initial sadhana, one acquires these as skills and enters the states of pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi in succession. In sanyama one learns to hold an extremely delicate balance between the “mind and no-mind state” to be able to enter these states at once. Yogi can then choose to be in sanyama when isolated and descend to any lower state when the worldly chores come calling.


#11

Who here can get into samadhi?

and how does one do such a thing?


#12

It is not really something that is done. It is something that happens when you create the conditions for it to happen. The worst thing you can do in your practice is keep checking if you’ve got there. This would be like checking on the seed to see if it has grown the plant yet.


#13

I’m almost there.

How do you create the conditions?


#14

That’s what the whole Yoga sadhana is about. But even in attempting to over-simplify, we can say that the three bodies --physical, astral and causal–are purified through years of patient Yoga practices so that they are brought in sync. Together they become a harmonized vehicle of experiencing but no more feed on the external sense impulses. While experiencing in the inner subtle domain, the bodies reach a unique vibratory frequency that brings about a complete separation of awareness away from them. That creates the conditions for samadhi to happen.

In that state, awareness is also extremely rarefied to become consciousness itself. Since there is nothing to be conscious of, you remain just conscious.


#15

ah yes. But how do you turn it on?

“O.K. I’m going into samadhi now.” the yogi goes and sits down . . . three seconds later only the central channel is active and he’s doing stuff.


#16

The answer is simple. You need to reach the state of pratyahara and then start dharana. Then dhyana and Samadhi follow automatically.

You reach pratyahara through pranayama.


#17

You can do samadhi by looking at Ip computer numbers.But that does not will make you see god.lol but you may end up thinking that you are the god of the yoga forums.


#18

After conducting some research. (I must admit to you about a hundred years ago I used to be really really really good at this. But a hundred years and couple of lives ago you forget somethings and you got a little bit of rust you need to knock off.)

Anyway after conducting research into this topic I’m pretty dang sure that most of the more vocal people on here who sound like they know something don’t know anymore than the things they’ve read in a book. They may have some good memories, or rather the impressions are quite deep because they are incredibly well read and they can dazzle you with words but their advice lacks the vitality of wisdom gained through fruitfull practice.

Perhaps their practice is unfruitful because they are blow hards giving stale advice? Just a theory…


#19

Once someone has obtained samadhi (the observer, the act of observation, and the observed become a single unified whole), then samyama is practiced on different objects. So this means the practice of samadhi is turned to meditating on a part of the body, to achieve a specific power, or siddhi. In this way samyama is an extension of the ability of the mind to become unified around different objects. Later , this ability is turned to absorption of the mind, on the mind itself.


#20

Om,

“Samyama” consists of concentration, meditation, and samadhi combined together. The simultaneous action of these three, is samyama. But it should be clear that these three aspects are not in fact three, they are different parts of the same process. Concentration is the seed for meditation, meditation becomes the seed for samadhi, it is almost an alchemical process in which one state is transmuted into another. The difference between “samyama” and “samadhi” is that samadhi is the outcome of complete samyama.