I’ve been meditating for quite a long time, but am quite new to Yoga. I was wondering what being in a state of Samadhi was for. I remember a couple of reputable Tibetan Buddhist meditators saying that sitting in a state of bliss might be nice, but it’s virtually useless. Meditation is to stable the mind and eliminate negative ways of thinking. So what is the point of Samadhi? What benefit does it actually have, and why is it so valued in Yoga?
The ‘Yoga Sutras of Patanjali’ gave me a pretty good idea.
[QUOTE=omamana;32533]The ‘Yoga Sutras of Patanjali’ gave me a pretty good idea.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that’s where I read about it. So what was the idea?
If the Sutras don?t give you a better idea then I am afraid any explanation I might give you will most certainly fall short.
[QUOTE=omamana;32536]If the Sutras don?t give you a better idea then I am afraid any explanation I might give you will most certainly fall short.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! That’s why I’m asking. No one seems to actually know:D lol
“I was wondering what being in a state of Samadhi was for”…TO FEEL BLISSFUL!
You all ready know it.
Now keep doing meditating until you feel it.
When you reach it you will not feel empty, or like you wasted your time, or like you want to move. It’s a chance to connect with your infinite self, it helps you be a better HUMAN being. You can then call on that blissful feeling in times of stress and discomfort.
Hope this helped. Sat Nam.
Ok, so if I’m not mistaken, sitting in a blissful state, is done in order to increase the possibility of ‘accessing bliss’ in times of stress. I shouldn’t have done all those years of Buddhist meditation, cause in Buddhist meditation, feeling ‘blissed out’ is an obstacle and considered waste of time. I wonder how effective sitting in samadhi has on day to day stress. Is it a reliable stress coping mechanism?
I recommend Ken Wilber writings on spiritual development. It is very technical but I like the picture he is describing in which e.g. Samadhi would be s state of consciousness corresponding with a specific level of existence . In principle it would be similar to emotional level or mental level. At each level you experience and perceive world in a different fashion (more emotionally and rationally in those cases). I haven’t experienced this Samadhi state myself (wow, and I still can write about it 
), but I guess it would be the state in which you become aware of your more subtle level of consciousness.
And what is for. What is emotional level for? Mental level? Do you have to develop yourself on emotional level for example? Lot of people avoid it and prefer to be more rational about everything. If you can operate using reason why would you need developed emotions for? So I guess my answer would be: to experience more what is to be human - and that would require development on all levels, from physical, through emotional to levels related with Samadhi and beyond.
Yogiadam,
You should find a good translation of the Yoga sutras, with commentary to explain Samadahi clearly to you. Just do a google search and you should find plenty of web sites on the Yoga sutras with translations and commentary.
I will attempt to answer your question though, because some new-age people tend to use the word samadhi for anything that feels nice to them, and this is wrong and misleading. Samadhi is a very specific stage of meditation, and it is unmistakabe. You enter into a very deep state of consciousness such that you lose all sense of self, space and time and experiece an indescribable bliss. It is the experience that all yogis are working towards.
The word samadhi is derived from sama + dhi which means perfect consciousness. It is perfect because there is absolutely no sensory awareness, no thought awareness, no awareness of any limitation space, time or causation. There is just pure awareness. Before you get to Samadhi you will experience unmistakable stages. The first thing you will experience is is a complete black out of sensory information called pratyhara. Then you will experience very vivid visions(this is just highly lucid subconscious impressions emanating from your unconscious mind) After these begin to subside you will reach a steadier state of consciousness and your mind will become empty and clear of all content. If you maintain this state for a certain period you will reach a stage known as samayama(perfect control) It is again unmistakable when you reached samayama because you will experience siddhis(mental powers) these are the signs of samayama. This is the first kind of samadhi and is known as samadhi with object. If you pass this stage you will reach one of the final stage of samadhi known as samadhi without object and this Buddha calls mahanirvana, where you experience a state of pure silence and absolute bliss. It will be unmistakable you have experieced this because your entire being will become transformed and when you return to the world you will no be longer be an ordinary person. You will be a buddha.
Now the chances are, like the most of us, you are still working towards pratyhara. Do not mistake the peace one gets from meditation to be pratyhara, pratyhara is unmistakable. To get to pratyhara you will need to first master asana and pranayama so you have control over your sensory organs and then you learn to withdraw your prana from your sense organs. So you should not worry about samadhi at this moment as it is an advanced stage and you’re still at beginners. Also forget about meditation for now and work on asana and pranayama. At this stage what we call “meditating” is nothing more than closing your eyes and daydreaming.
Thanks Surya Deva. That really clarified it for me. I do experience certain blissfulness, oneness and unity with the universe, and a dissolving of the senses, during meditation that I had probably mistaken for samadhi. In Tibetan Buddhism, this experience is an obstacle. It’s might be nice, but once your out of meditation, everything is back to normal. That’s why Buddhist say it’s useless. In fact, in Buddhism, if you do long retreat, it would be considered a complete waste of time if you come back to your daily life and are the same person. The only way to know if a retreat was worth the effort, is if the people in your life notice that you’ve become kinder, more compassionate and patience etc. I’m glad that the Yoga sutras aren’t referring to what I experience as samadhi. With this new perspective, I would have to admit that I don’t know what Samadhi is, and couldn’t even confidently except Samadhi as a valid concept (probably cause I use to be a firm Atheist :D). Having said that, I’m much happier to question the whole idea of Samahi, than to believe the ‘useless bliss’ I’m experiencing IS Samadhi. Thanks
Suryadeva,
I know you are well intending, that much of what you say is true and well informed, and I do not mean to call you out, but only to help clarify some things. Is this something you have read and are repeating, or do you speak from experience? Like many accounts, it reads as though it might possibly all happen at once, and that might confuse some people, as well as yourself.
I might agree that one need not be concerned with samadhi, however only simply because it is not a purpose, but rather is an outcome. You either reach samadhi or you don’t. It’s not something you’re trying to do, like…“I’ve mastered asana, pranayama and pratyahara, now on to samadhi,” and it’s not necessarily a permanent state either, but rather one that can be slipped in and out of over a long period of time.
Can you please explain…[I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs?”[/I] And, is there really any reason one should wait to start practicing meditation? No. There is none. Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes! This is also true. What do you think? I respect your passion and desire to help, but what you want to speak about here is yet beyond your comprehension.
with respect and love,
siva
[QUOTE=siva;32641]Suryadeva,
Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes!
So true, There isn’t even any mention of Asana or Pranayama in Buddhism. So if Samadhi is measured in a scale of degree, what is it for? What’s it’s function? It’s really beginning to sound like fiction. Absolutely no disrespect when I say that.
[quote=siva;32641]
So true, There isn’t even any mention of Asana or Pranayama in Buddhism. So if Samadhi is measured in a scale of degree, what is it for? What’s it’s function? It’s really beginning to sound like fiction. Absolutely no disrespect when I say that.[/quote]
YogiAdam,
It’s like asking…“What is the function of thunder?” Thunder has no function, but rather is the outcome of lightning.
Like I said…samadhi has no purpose, it’s an outcome, and everyone is bound to experience glimpses of it in their lifetime. It’s the state of perfect stillness of the mind where one realizes infinite truth beyond understanding, i.e., “beyond understanding.” Ever had such an experience? Yes you have. I bet you can name several, however samadhi is achieving the ability to stay there at will. There is a difference.
Just let it go of this one and keep practicing. If it happens for you, come back and let us know.
peace,
siva
Samadhi IS fiction until you experience it.
So is an apple.
So is drunkenness.
The real question is not, "does it exist?"
The real question is: “do you have the courage, patience, and discipline to try and find out?”
With love,
Ben
[QUOTE=siva;32641]Suryadeva,
I know you are well intending, that much of what you say is true and well informed, and I do not mean to call you out, but only to help clarify some things. Is this something you have read and are repeating, or do you speak from experience? Like many accounts, it reads as though it might possibly all happen at once, and that might confuse some people, as well as yourself.[/quote]
Namaste Siva,
I have had both experience(limited) of pratyhara and the visions one gets after that stage and also limited experience of spontaneous siddhis. The rest I base on the information of the Yoga expert himself Patanjali, and many great modern day yogis who describe the process very well, such as Swami Satyananda and Swami Yogananda. I understand the mechanics of the process really well as I am also well versed in the Samkhya-Yoga philosophy.
I might agree that one need not be concerned with samadhi, however only simply because it is not a purpose, but rather is an outcome. You either reach samadhi or you don’t. It’s not something you’re trying to do, like…“I’ve mastered asana, pranayama and pratyahara, now on to samadhi,” and it’s not necessarily a permanent state either, but rather one that can be slipped in and out of over a long period of time.
No, it is not, this is why you can slip out of it. However, you will be transformed once you reach true samadhi. This is what Buddha calls the awakening. You only have to glimpse your true nature once to become enlightened. Just as you have to glimpse the rope once to realise it is not a snake.
It is easy to mistake the bliss we experience in meditation to be Samadhi, but this is not even close to Samadhi. The stages of samadhi are unmistakable according to the Yoga experts.
Can you please explain…[I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs?”[/I] And, is there really any reason one should wait to start practicing meditation? No. There is none. Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes! This is also true. What do you think? I respect your passion and desire to help, but what you want to speak about here is yet beyond your comprehension.
with respect and love,
siva
Yes, one should not begin dharana until they have passed pratyhara. Otherwise you are wasting your time. This is why people who have been meditating for years or even decades change very little, because although they think they are meditating, they are not at all. I realised this very strongly when I reached pratyhara once, and it was absolutely unmistkable. All that time(years) prior to it I thought I was meditating, when in actual fact I was not. But boy when pratyhara came, thats when I REALLY meditated.
Prior to pratyhara you are just on the surface level of your consciousness, the the conscious mind is very active and your senses are still receiving impressions from the outside. Your breath has not stabalized yet and it is irregular and you’re consciously aware of it. It is little different to closing your eyes and daydreaming.
There is a reason why the great Patanjali gives a sequence yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyhara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi. I am going to take his word for it over others because his credibility is second to none in Yoga and my own experiences confirm his research. In the ancient Yogic tradition this sequence was followed to the tee. The disciple would first master yama and niyama over several years, and then he would be instructed in the kriyas like asana and pranayama(these tend to go together) Then pratyhara would come naturally and they would go onto to dharana(usually with a mantra the guru has given) After you have mastered the preliminary stages, the later stages will become easier and you will reach the goal faster.
There is no rush to get to dharana(meditation) You need to first learn to walk before you can run. As regards to Buddhism: If Buddhist meditation as it is currently being practiced worked, then why don’t we see many Buddhists with siddhis and more awakened masters? The simple answer to this, and it goes with some yogins as well, the spiritual science of Yoga is no longer being practiced as it use to.
We are not going to get anywhere with half-hearted efforts. We need full dedication to the path and this means mastering the preliminaries before you go to the the advanced stages.
Surya Deva,
I humbly offer a different viewpoint:
I suggest that it is not wise to advise people NOT to meditate. It can certainly do no harm - on this we both agree i think - and it may help the a great deal. After all, to sit silently and attempt to focus the monkey mind, in this world of increasing intensity, can ONLY help.
Have you considered that perhaps your previous efforts in meditation also helped you to gain pratyahara more quickly?
The 8 limbs of Raja Yoga are just that - limbs. They are not steps on a ladder (as is often mistakenly thought). Unlike steps, which must be taken in sequence, one at a time, the limbs of Raja Yoga can be practiced altogether.
With love to you all,
Ben
ps - think of this: if you had a student who had an accident and could not do asana, would you tell them not to bother meditating, because they didn’t ‘perfect’ asana yet?
Of course you would not.
Similarly, we all benefit from the practice of meditation, even if we are not ready yet for Samadhi in it’s fullest aspect.
Dear Ben,
Well said. Well written. I bow to you. You are awesome. You are my brother! Thank you!
Surya Deva, listen to him! He’s absolutely right.
This part is true. What I meant by [I]“slip in and out”[/I] is, even after reaching samadhi, you still have to go to work and pay the bills. What about the Boddhisattva?
Some experts write books, others chat on the internet where we might be very surprised to meet one.
Did you know Patanajli did not author the Pradipika, but rather it’s a compilation from “experts:” a documentation of techniques recognized by rishis and sages from all over the Asian subcontinent, and over a period of centuries, to repeat most consistently the desired effects of yoga?
I am concerned about how others interpret what you say, much of which is simply false. I am not trying to be hard on you or criticize you, but only to help. I write this out of compassion, however inadequate it may be. But on the other hand, with the right attitude, this could be a big day for you. I hope so.
peace and love,
siva
PS. You still haven’t explained [I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs.”[/I] You should look that one up again. Pratyahara is withdrawing the MIND from the sense organs. ; )
In the Buddhadharma the Yoga comes at the end of the teachings. Which is pretty awesome.
Samadhi is a state of mental absorbtion either with or without an object.
Yes, Samadhi is often described as complete absorbtion or self-absorbtion,as noted above.
What’s it for?
For releasing ourselves from bondage to the illusion of a separate self.It puts us in touch whith the higher self through unifying and merging of the individual with cosmic consiousness,the goal of yoga.Most folk live in a kind of dream-state which is “normal” consciousness. To get awakened is to wake up from that relative dream state.
Liberation and the end of suffering.You might also experience permanent bliss(of pure conscousness) and esctacy(of the effects of kundalini) which tend to characterise it. But the experience of unity and oneess, as well as divine love 24/7 .It is expanded consciousness.
Best advice is to drop all expectations about what it might be like and of course the conceptualising which only perpetuates & keeps us stuck in the illusion,the illusion of separation and disconnect.
Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas