“I was wondering what being in a state of Samadhi was for”…TO FEEL BLISSFUL!
You all ready know it.
Now keep doing meditating until you feel it.
When you reach it you will not feel empty, or like you wasted your time, or like you want to move. It’s a chance to connect with your infinite self, it helps you be a better HUMAN being. You can then call on that blissful feeling in times of stress and discomfort.
Hope this helped. Sat Nam.
Ok, so if I’m not mistaken, sitting in a blissful state, is done in order to increase the possibility of ‘accessing bliss’ in times of stress. I shouldn’t have done all those years of Buddhist meditation, cause in Buddhist meditation, feeling ‘blissed out’ is an obstacle and considered waste of time. I wonder how effective sitting in samadhi has on day to day stress. Is it a reliable stress coping mechanism?
I recommend Ken Wilber writings on spiritual development. It is very technical but I like the picture he is describing in which e.g. Samadhi would be s state of consciousness corresponding with a specific level of existence . In principle it would be similar to emotional level or mental level. At each level you experience and perceive world in a different fashion (more emotionally and rationally in those cases). I haven’t experienced this Samadhi state myself (wow, and I still can write about it 
), but I guess it would be the state in which you become aware of your more subtle level of consciousness.
And what is for. What is emotional level for? Mental level? Do you have to develop yourself on emotional level for example? Lot of people avoid it and prefer to be more rational about everything. If you can operate using reason why would you need developed emotions for? So I guess my answer would be: to experience more what is to be human - and that would require development on all levels, from physical, through emotional to levels related with Samadhi and beyond.
Yogiadam,
You should find a good translation of the Yoga sutras, with commentary to explain Samadahi clearly to you. Just do a google search and you should find plenty of web sites on the Yoga sutras with translations and commentary.
I will attempt to answer your question though, because some new-age people tend to use the word samadhi for anything that feels nice to them, and this is wrong and misleading. Samadhi is a very specific stage of meditation, and it is unmistakabe. You enter into a very deep state of consciousness such that you lose all sense of self, space and time and experiece an indescribable bliss. It is the experience that all yogis are working towards.
The word samadhi is derived from sama + dhi which means perfect consciousness. It is perfect because there is absolutely no sensory awareness, no thought awareness, no awareness of any limitation space, time or causation. There is just pure awareness. Before you get to Samadhi you will experience unmistakable stages. The first thing you will experience is is a complete black out of sensory information called pratyhara. Then you will experience very vivid visions(this is just highly lucid subconscious impressions emanating from your unconscious mind) After these begin to subside you will reach a steadier state of consciousness and your mind will become empty and clear of all content. If you maintain this state for a certain period you will reach a stage known as samayama(perfect control) It is again unmistakable when you reached samayama because you will experience siddhis(mental powers) these are the signs of samayama. This is the first kind of samadhi and is known as samadhi with object. If you pass this stage you will reach one of the final stage of samadhi known as samadhi without object and this Buddha calls mahanirvana, where you experience a state of pure silence and absolute bliss. It will be unmistakable you have experieced this because your entire being will become transformed and when you return to the world you will no be longer be an ordinary person. You will be a buddha.
Now the chances are, like the most of us, you are still working towards pratyhara. Do not mistake the peace one gets from meditation to be pratyhara, pratyhara is unmistakable. To get to pratyhara you will need to first master asana and pranayama so you have control over your sensory organs and then you learn to withdraw your prana from your sense organs. So you should not worry about samadhi at this moment as it is an advanced stage and you’re still at beginners. Also forget about meditation for now and work on asana and pranayama. At this stage what we call “meditating” is nothing more than closing your eyes and daydreaming.
Thanks Surya Deva. That really clarified it for me. I do experience certain blissfulness, oneness and unity with the universe, and a dissolving of the senses, during meditation that I had probably mistaken for samadhi. In Tibetan Buddhism, this experience is an obstacle. It’s might be nice, but once your out of meditation, everything is back to normal. That’s why Buddhist say it’s useless. In fact, in Buddhism, if you do long retreat, it would be considered a complete waste of time if you come back to your daily life and are the same person. The only way to know if a retreat was worth the effort, is if the people in your life notice that you’ve become kinder, more compassionate and patience etc. I’m glad that the Yoga sutras aren’t referring to what I experience as samadhi. With this new perspective, I would have to admit that I don’t know what Samadhi is, and couldn’t even confidently except Samadhi as a valid concept (probably cause I use to be a firm Atheist :D). Having said that, I’m much happier to question the whole idea of Samahi, than to believe the ‘useless bliss’ I’m experiencing IS Samadhi. Thanks
Suryadeva,
I know you are well intending, that much of what you say is true and well informed, and I do not mean to call you out, but only to help clarify some things. Is this something you have read and are repeating, or do you speak from experience? Like many accounts, it reads as though it might possibly all happen at once, and that might confuse some people, as well as yourself.
I might agree that one need not be concerned with samadhi, however only simply because it is not a purpose, but rather is an outcome. You either reach samadhi or you don’t. It’s not something you’re trying to do, like…“I’ve mastered asana, pranayama and pratyahara, now on to samadhi,” and it’s not necessarily a permanent state either, but rather one that can be slipped in and out of over a long period of time.
Can you please explain…[I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs?”[/I] And, is there really any reason one should wait to start practicing meditation? No. There is none. Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes! This is also true. What do you think? I respect your passion and desire to help, but what you want to speak about here is yet beyond your comprehension.
with respect and love,
siva
[QUOTE=siva;32641]Suryadeva,
Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes!
So true, There isn’t even any mention of Asana or Pranayama in Buddhism. So if Samadhi is measured in a scale of degree, what is it for? What’s it’s function? It’s really beginning to sound like fiction. Absolutely no disrespect when I say that.
[quote=siva;32641]
So true, There isn’t even any mention of Asana or Pranayama in Buddhism. So if Samadhi is measured in a scale of degree, what is it for? What’s it’s function? It’s really beginning to sound like fiction. Absolutely no disrespect when I say that.[/quote]
YogiAdam,
It’s like asking…“What is the function of thunder?” Thunder has no function, but rather is the outcome of lightning.
Like I said…samadhi has no purpose, it’s an outcome, and everyone is bound to experience glimpses of it in their lifetime. It’s the state of perfect stillness of the mind where one realizes infinite truth beyond understanding, i.e., “beyond understanding.” Ever had such an experience? Yes you have. I bet you can name several, however samadhi is achieving the ability to stay there at will. There is a difference.
Just let it go of this one and keep practicing. If it happens for you, come back and let us know.
peace,
siva
Samadhi IS fiction until you experience it.
So is an apple.
So is drunkenness.
The real question is not, "does it exist?"
The real question is: “do you have the courage, patience, and discipline to try and find out?”
With love,
Ben
[QUOTE=siva;32641]Suryadeva,
I know you are well intending, that much of what you say is true and well informed, and I do not mean to call you out, but only to help clarify some things. Is this something you have read and are repeating, or do you speak from experience? Like many accounts, it reads as though it might possibly all happen at once, and that might confuse some people, as well as yourself.[/quote]
Namaste Siva,
I have had both experience(limited) of pratyhara and the visions one gets after that stage and also limited experience of spontaneous siddhis. The rest I base on the information of the Yoga expert himself Patanjali, and many great modern day yogis who describe the process very well, such as Swami Satyananda and Swami Yogananda. I understand the mechanics of the process really well as I am also well versed in the Samkhya-Yoga philosophy.
I might agree that one need not be concerned with samadhi, however only simply because it is not a purpose, but rather is an outcome. You either reach samadhi or you don’t. It’s not something you’re trying to do, like…“I’ve mastered asana, pranayama and pratyahara, now on to samadhi,” and it’s not necessarily a permanent state either, but rather one that can be slipped in and out of over a long period of time.
No, it is not, this is why you can slip out of it. However, you will be transformed once you reach true samadhi. This is what Buddha calls the awakening. You only have to glimpse your true nature once to become enlightened. Just as you have to glimpse the rope once to realise it is not a snake.
It is easy to mistake the bliss we experience in meditation to be Samadhi, but this is not even close to Samadhi. The stages of samadhi are unmistakable according to the Yoga experts.
Can you please explain…[I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs?”[/I] And, is there really any reason one should wait to start practicing meditation? No. There is none. Does one have to master asana, pranayama, pratyahara and meditation to become the buddha? No. Also, is it not possible to practice these simultaneously, and that samadhi can be reached by a matter of degrees? Yes! This is also true. What do you think? I respect your passion and desire to help, but what you want to speak about here is yet beyond your comprehension.
with respect and love,
siva
Yes, one should not begin dharana until they have passed pratyhara. Otherwise you are wasting your time. This is why people who have been meditating for years or even decades change very little, because although they think they are meditating, they are not at all. I realised this very strongly when I reached pratyhara once, and it was absolutely unmistkable. All that time(years) prior to it I thought I was meditating, when in actual fact I was not. But boy when pratyhara came, thats when I REALLY meditated.
Prior to pratyhara you are just on the surface level of your consciousness, the the conscious mind is very active and your senses are still receiving impressions from the outside. Your breath has not stabalized yet and it is irregular and you’re consciously aware of it. It is little different to closing your eyes and daydreaming.
There is a reason why the great Patanjali gives a sequence yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyhara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi. I am going to take his word for it over others because his credibility is second to none in Yoga and my own experiences confirm his research. In the ancient Yogic tradition this sequence was followed to the tee. The disciple would first master yama and niyama over several years, and then he would be instructed in the kriyas like asana and pranayama(these tend to go together) Then pratyhara would come naturally and they would go onto to dharana(usually with a mantra the guru has given) After you have mastered the preliminary stages, the later stages will become easier and you will reach the goal faster.
There is no rush to get to dharana(meditation) You need to first learn to walk before you can run. As regards to Buddhism: If Buddhist meditation as it is currently being practiced worked, then why don’t we see many Buddhists with siddhis and more awakened masters? The simple answer to this, and it goes with some yogins as well, the spiritual science of Yoga is no longer being practiced as it use to.
We are not going to get anywhere with half-hearted efforts. We need full dedication to the path and this means mastering the preliminaries before you go to the the advanced stages.
Surya Deva,
I humbly offer a different viewpoint:
I suggest that it is not wise to advise people NOT to meditate. It can certainly do no harm - on this we both agree i think - and it may help the a great deal. After all, to sit silently and attempt to focus the monkey mind, in this world of increasing intensity, can ONLY help.
Have you considered that perhaps your previous efforts in meditation also helped you to gain pratyahara more quickly?
The 8 limbs of Raja Yoga are just that - limbs. They are not steps on a ladder (as is often mistakenly thought). Unlike steps, which must be taken in sequence, one at a time, the limbs of Raja Yoga can be practiced altogether.
With love to you all,
Ben
ps - think of this: if you had a student who had an accident and could not do asana, would you tell them not to bother meditating, because they didn’t ‘perfect’ asana yet?
Of course you would not.
Similarly, we all benefit from the practice of meditation, even if we are not ready yet for Samadhi in it’s fullest aspect.
Dear Ben,
Well said. Well written. I bow to you. You are awesome. You are my brother! Thank you!
Surya Deva, listen to him! He’s absolutely right.
This part is true. What I meant by [I]“slip in and out”[/I] is, even after reaching samadhi, you still have to go to work and pay the bills. What about the Boddhisattva?
Some experts write books, others chat on the internet where we might be very surprised to meet one.
Did you know Patanajli did not author the Pradipika, but rather it’s a compilation from “experts:” a documentation of techniques recognized by rishis and sages from all over the Asian subcontinent, and over a period of centuries, to repeat most consistently the desired effects of yoga?
I am concerned about how others interpret what you say, much of which is simply false. I am not trying to be hard on you or criticize you, but only to help. I write this out of compassion, however inadequate it may be. But on the other hand, with the right attitude, this could be a big day for you. I hope so.
peace and love,
siva
PS. You still haven’t explained [I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs.”[/I] You should look that one up again. Pratyahara is withdrawing the MIND from the sense organs. ; )
In the Buddhadharma the Yoga comes at the end of the teachings. Which is pretty awesome.
Samadhi is a state of mental absorbtion either with or without an object.
Yes, Samadhi is often described as complete absorbtion or self-absorbtion,as noted above.
What’s it for?
For releasing ourselves from bondage to the illusion of a separate self.It puts us in touch whith the higher self through unifying and merging of the individual with cosmic consiousness,the goal of yoga.Most folk live in a kind of dream-state which is “normal” consciousness. To get awakened is to wake up from that relative dream state.
Liberation and the end of suffering.You might also experience permanent bliss(of pure conscousness) and esctacy(of the effects of kundalini) which tend to characterise it. But the experience of unity and oneess, as well as divine love 24/7 .It is expanded consciousness.
Best advice is to drop all expectations about what it might be like and of course the conceptualising which only perpetuates & keeps us stuck in the illusion,the illusion of separation and disconnect.
Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;32743]Beware the man of one book.
St. Thomas Aquinas[/QUOTE]
Ok, now that’s wisdom.
Dear Ben,
If you are not meditating, then you are not. It does not get anymore simpler than this. Meditation isn’t something you do, meditation is something which happens once you have created the conditions. The main condition is pratyhara which requires cultivation of prana through yama, niyama asana and pranayama(the latter two are the most important towards this end)
Nobody has misunderstood Patanjali he has very clearly given a sequence of the stages of Yoga which need to be practiced in a sequence. The sequence is also scientifically sound. First of all, you need to commit to a certain lifestyle(yama and niyama) and discipline your senses, mainly through brahmacharya. Then you need to master asana so that your body can remain locked down for an indefinite period of time in meditation and through bandhas, mudras and other kriyas you train your pranic system and improve its functioning.
Your prana is directly connected to the activity in your mind. If you try to regulate the mind by regulating the activity of the mind, you are pretty much trying to tame a storm and will invariably fail. However, you can regulate the activity of the mind by regulating prana. This is why if you take just three deep breaths it puts your mind in a much more focussed state almost immediately. So logically, the better your pranic system is functioning, the more naturally focussed your mind will become. Then reaching pratyhara will be far more easier.
You are not meditating if you are not in pratyhara, you’re just daydreaming and wasting your time. You need to experience pratyhara just once to realise this. I know it is a hard pill to swallow that all this time you’ve most likely not been meditating, because you’ve commited so much time and effort to this, but this is nothing but the truth.
A few years ago I revealed this truth to a TM meditator, who was also outraged when I told him he was not meditating, but just dayreaming. Now, it is easy to see I was right about his practice. He has been meditating for 20 years and was born into a TM family. Despite this, his personality was no different to the average lad, he did drugs, smoking and alcohol, swore, failed his driving test several times, and was quick to get offended and angry. Do these seem like the traits of somebody who has been meditating for 20 years?
What a tragedy that for 20 years what he thought was meditation, was not in fact meditation.
I am saving you a lot of time energy and effort by telling you this hard truth. You can listen to it and reform your practice and get results quickly, or you can continue doing what you do for another 20 years and realise you haven’t got anywhere. Your loss or your gain.
This part is true. What I meant by [I]“slip in and out”[/I] is, even after reaching samadhi, you still have to go to work and pay the bills. What about the Boddhisattva?
You will not be working and paying bills once you have reached Samadhi. You will be doing seva and wandering the world teaching people out of the sheer compassion emanating from you to end their suffering. All of the awakened masters do this(Babaji, Jesus, Buddha, Guru Nanak etc).
You want to have your cake and eat it at the same time.
Did you know Patanajli did not author the Pradipika, but rather it’s a compilation from “experts:” a documentation of techniques recognized by rishis and sages from all over the Asian subcontinent, and over a period of centuries, to repeat most consistently the desired effects of yoga?
And did you know the Pradipika says hatha yoga is only a preliminary Yoga to Raja yoga(meditation yoga) In other words just what I am saying you begin with asana and pranayama first, and only then can you move onto meditation:
śrī-ādi-nāthāya namo|astu tasmai
yenopadiṣhṭā haṭha-yogha-vidyā |
vibhrājate pronnata-rāja-yogham
āroḍhumichchoradhirohiṇīva || 1 || || 1 ||
Salutation to ?din?tha (Śiva) who expounded the knowledge of Haṭha Yoga, which like a staircase leads the aspirant to the high pinnacled R?ja Yoga. 1.
परणम्य शरी-गुरुं नाथं सवात्मारामेण योगिना |
केवलं राज-योगाय हठ-विद्योपदिश्यते || २ ||
praṇamya śrī-ghuruṃ nāthaṃ svātmārāmeṇa yoghinā |
kevalaṃ rāja-yoghāya haṭha-vidyopadiśyate || 2 ||
Yogin Sw?tm?r?ma, after saluting first his Gur? Srin?tha explains Haṭha Yoga for the attainment of Raja Yoga. 2.
भरान्त्या बहुमत-धवान्ते राज-योगमजानताम |
हठ-परदीपिकां धत्ते सवात्मारामः कॄपाकरः || ३ |
bhrāntyā bahumata-dhvānte rāja-yoghamajānatām |
haṭha-pradīpikāṃ dhatte svātmārāmaḥ kṝpākaraḥ || 3 |
Owing to the darkness arising from the multiplicity of opinions people are unable to know the R?ja Yoga. Compassionate Sw?tm?r?ma composes the Haṭha Yoga Pradipik? like a torch to dispel it. 3.
So by mentioning the Pradipika as another authorative Yoga text you have simply backed up my point that one must begin with the preliminary stages first and then move onto the advanced stages. It is like this in all kinds of training. You start at the basics, master the basics and move on the intermediate and advanced stages. Why should it be any different in Yoga?
PS. You still haven’t explained [I]“withdrawing prana from your sense organs.”[/I] You should look that one up again. Pratyahara is withdrawing the MIND from the sense organs. ; )
Nope, it is actually the prana you are withdrawing. I know this is correct because Swami Yogananda says this explicitly. Withdrawing the mind is easy you can just daydream and lose awareness of what is going on around you. Pratyhara is something very specific and technical, this is when the pranic currents which are going to your sense organs are withdrawn inwards through very specific yogic techniques, and as a result you experience a complete sensory blackout and begin to introvert and go inwards at a very fast rate. The symptoms of this stage is visions.
The prelimary stages of asana and pranayama(kriya yoga basically) will allow you to gain control of your pranic system and be able to manipulate and control prana. This is known as prana-vidya. Then you will be able to channel the prana wherever you want it to go in your body or even outside of your body, you will also be able to tap prana from other sources like the air, sun rays, minerals and plants. Finally, you will be able to withdraw your prana inwards and reach pratyhara and commence dharana.
If you begin meditation(dharana) before this you are not meditating.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32763]Dear Ben,
If you are not meditating, then you are not. It does not get anymore simpler than this.[/QUOTE]
Well that’s true - it doesn’t get simpler. But that doesn’t make you right I’m afraid.
Meditation isn’t something you do, meditation is something which happens once you have created the conditions.
If that is true, then Dhyana (meditation) would not be referred to as one of the limbs of yoga - it would be simply referred to as ‘something which happens’.
The meditation YOU are referring to is actually called Samadhi - but even then it is not ‘something which happens’. It is a state of awareness, and must be gradually cultivated. It too is one of the 8 limbs, and therefore is also not a final ‘something’: there are varying degrees of Samadhi, and until you have experienced them you would be better off not lecturing people as an authority.
Also, meditation as a state of awareness is only one meditation. When we speak of meditation, the word has another meaning: meditation as a practice. To advise people NOT to meditate is irresponsible. Many, many people benefit from the PRACTICE of meditation: as pain relief; as a means of balancing the emotions; as a means of concentrating the mind; and many others, not least, as a means towards the final goal of yogic discipline - Samadhi.
The main condition is pratyhara which requires cultivation of prana through yama, niyama asana and pranayama(the latter two are the most important towards this end)
NO. asana is not more important than yama and niyama. I have met many people (including many yoga teachers) who practice asana very nicely, but have no awareness of, nor application of, the yama and niyama in their life. It’s not pretty.
Nobody has misunderstood Patanjali
What, ever?
I know it is a hard pill to swallow that all this time you’ve most likely not been meditating, because you’ve commited so much time and effort to this, but this is nothing but the truth.
A few years ago I revealed this truth to a TM meditator
I wonder if he was also as charmed by your wisdom as the rest of us?
who was also outraged
Yes, thought so.
What a tragedy that for 20 years what he thought was meditation, was not in fact meditation.
I am saving you a lot of time energy and effort by telling you this hard truth. You can listen to it and reform your practice and get results quickly, or you can continue doing what you do for another 20 years and realise you haven’t got anywhere. Your loss or your gain.
Does your arrogance know no bounds?!
You will not be working and paying bills once you have reached Samadhi. You will be doing seva and wandering the world teaching people out of the sheer compassion emanating from you to end their suffering. All of the awakened masters do this(Babaji, Jesus, Buddha, Guru Nanak etc).
You want to have your cake and eat it at the same time.
This is total nonsense. There have been many enlightened masters who work amongst us as normal people. I have the privilege of knowing one, and he works harder than anyone I’ve ever met, has 4 kids, and pays his bills. You really should either a) think a little before speaking, or b) do some research.
If you begin meditation(dharana) before this you are not meditating.
It is not for you to say who is, and who is not, meditating. Unless they are your student, and have specifically asked you. Even then, I would advise serious thought before you answer - sometimes the truth does violence and is therefore best avoided.
You seem to think you know what is the most important aspect of yoga. I suggest to you that there is no ‘most important’ part. They are all equally essential.
You would do well to go back to the beginning and think deeply about Ahimsa (non violence). Your words are capable of violence too you know.
With love,
Ben
Thank you Ben,
Could not have said it better. Saved me a lot of time and grief.
Siva
Thanks Siva. I’m not sure why I bothered… 
But I did and it’s done and there you go!