When does the soul come to the body?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#30

Yogananda answerd this question in his book: Hidden Teachings of the Gospels.

[I]When the soul enters physical incarnation at conception, the entire body grows from the seed cell. From its original seat in the medulla oblongata, the life energy flows downward, activating the seven astral cerebrospinal chakras, that create and give the physical spine, nervous system and the whole body. When the work of the life force is complete, it comes to rest in a coiled passage in the lowest coccygeal center.

Here the name kundalini or serpent force. In Sanskrit kundala=coiled

Because it completed its creative work, it is said to be “sleeping kundalini.”

Man’s physical, astral, and causal bodies are tied together and work as one by a knotting of life force and consciousness in the seven cerebrospinal centers.

The final tie is a coiled knot at the base of the spine, PREVENTING the ascension of consciousness into the heavily astral kingdom. UNLESS one knows how to open this knot of astral and physical power, the life and consciousness remain attracted to the mortal realm.[/I]

#31

[quote=Nichole;8796]Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?[/quote]

Nice topic Nichole.

In my experience it is the body that is within the soul. Not an individual soul attaching to a body. All phenomena is contained and happens within consciousness, or as you might call it: soul.

All thoughts about an individual soul ultimately don’t hold any substantial value either. These experiences and sensations of being an individual personal identity, or even an individual soul, simply vanish from the angle-less perception of Free Awareness. [U]Being[/U] simply is being equally in all experiences.

So I feel that whether we belief in an individual soul or not, these beliefs and the actual experiences that go with it, vanish like dreams before the pure light of truth and unity that is all pervasive. There is no benefit in holding on to these points of view of any individual existing anywhere. The most beneficial and immediate freedom is realized to be already here when we acknowledge the fact that there is only One. Within that one many forms seem to appear, but they too are just that One.

So too is the body simply an appearance and disappearance within the pure unity of awareness. There is no identity of individual substance to be found anywhere. Only through our beliefs and thoughts/emotions and sensations is there duality and identity of any kind, whether bodily or soul-like. Both are like waves on the ocean, like rays of the sun, and like space within space. There is nothing to uphold nor has there ever been anything upheld. There is nothing to define for all is simply Free Awareness. Whether described and labelled or not, all is but a dream within awareness, existing of nothing but pure and spacious awareness.

To go into details of what we are as individuals and how we came about, is just like adding space to space, it doesn’t lead us anywhere. If anything, it only keeps us from recognizing what we already are. Which is impersonal and universal Love/Awareness. Soul or no Soul, both are just concepts and experiences within the vastness of Awareness.

Just for a second, let go of all you belief to be, let all these beliefs about soul, karma, bodies, atman etc be. In that peace of letting it be for even just a moment, you will see that none of these concepts ever have any substance or power over the aware spaciousness that you are, you are always free from their definitions. That which is free and aware is what you truly are and it does not need any defining or explaining or appointing yourself an identity to any concept whatsoever. Be free from whatever you have been taught and you will find yourself, at least for that moment.

Let’s not get lost and keep it simple. Let us be as we are, free and undefined. Again and again untill this Free Awareness is our primary state of being and perceiving.

Love,
Bentinho.

#32

[U]Why abortions are bad? When you are aborting a foetus you are killing the chance of a soul who will take birth as human and progress his journey upward.You incur a sin of killing a soul, the result of which you will face.[/U] quote Rashmi.

in response to nichole, i was responding to the above statement made by Rashmi as i was under the impression that forums were for open discussion and was commenting on something that someone else had already raised.

#33

Nicole,

Here is the answer you asked.

Q: When does the soul enter the sperm of a male ('punsam retah-kana-asraya, SB 3.31.1)? According to medical science semen has millions of sperms and any of them can combine with an ovum. If they are moving can all of them have souls? Do the other sperms, which do not combine with with ovum, have to leave the sperm body?

A: In his BG As It Is 8.3, p., Srila Prabhupada quotes from Chandogya Upanisad: “In the process of sacrifice, the living entity makes specific sacrifices to attain specific heavenly planets and consequently reaches them. When the merit of sacrifice is exhausted, the living entity descends to Earth in the form of rain, then takes on the form of grains, and the grains are eaten by man and transformed into semen, which impregnates a woman, and thus the living entity once again attains the human form to perform sacrifice and so repeat the same cycle. In this way, the living entity perpetually comes and goes on the material path. The Krishna conscious person, however, avoids such sacrifices. He takes directly to Krishna consciousness and thereby prepares himself to return to Godhead.”

Yes, all the living sperm cells are inhabited by jivas. Science says the sperms after the intercourse live only for few hours and then die. Some research into Ayurveda could maybe reveal more information.

#34

[quote=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

? What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?

? If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?

? Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?

? Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/quote]

I began this thread over two years ago, and now with so many new and interesting members joining our discussions here, I would like to bump this thread and to hear your thoughts and personal experiences on the original topic. My thanks in anticipation :slight_smile:

Namaste,
Nichole

#35

Nichole,
My view has nothing to do with yogic teachings, I’m afraid. I myself do not follow the specific teachings of any religious text. I was raised by a woman who was seeking her “Truth” and as a result had the great benefit of learning about several different paths of belief. As a result, I have become one who seeks to find her own Truth without religious dogma.
I do my best to keep an open mind while remaining sensibly (I hope) skeptical.
In my seeking, I have come across some books that speak of the hypnotic regression of subjects to a place that they describe as life between lives. This is the most satisfying and believable explanation I have come across in my 47 years.

What is described is that the joining of the soul to the body is explained as not becoming permanent until the child reaches up to 7 years of age. It will be different with each individual. The personality of the soul must merge with the personality of the physical being, and the two become one. The soul may enter the body at conception, just before, or during gestation or at the moment of birth. The soul is not required to stay in the body at this time, and it can come and go. It may choose to remain and not leave at all.

For me, this feels right. It does not matter if anyone else believes it. I like the idea, and I was fascinated with my child and interacted with him often. I do not doubt that the soul returns to the body during these times when it needs to be there to learn with the body and to interact with others.
Honestly, I’m not 100% sure if I truly believe this myself, but again, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is my living in this physical body and learning the lessons I came here to learn, to help my soul develop and grow.

I guess what I do believe is that when a child is very young, the soul is free to move about, until such a time as it becomes bound to the body, and “forgets” who it is, so that it can learn the lessons it came here to learn.

#36

Joanna,
I appreciate that you have added so thoughtfully to the conversation. Thank you for sharing.

I loved hearing how you connected to the collection of regression testimonies. The soul as fluid and dynamic, able to move as needed before joining permanently with the child, is a completely new concept for me and something for me to think more on.

I know that age of 7 is also important in other [I]traditions[/I] (for lack of specific, commonly shared term) as well. Shri Krishnamacharya spoke of the age 7 being when a focused practice of Yoga may begin for a student, and Rudolph Steiner speaks of the 7th year in his anthroposophic writings as well. Hubert, another member here, knows Steiner’s work well and shares about it here in other threads.

Thank you again,
Nichole

#37

Good question. Where does our soul come from?

I am not a religious person but am very open minded. I beleive our soul is passed on from our mother. If you think about it, it sounds logical…well to me it does.
I think my soul or energy, whatever you want to call it, stretches to every inch of my body. I do not differentiate between energy and the soul as it appears to be the same thing to me.
Anything that is part of my body also has my soul or energy in it. Would you agree? If I have a mole, a growth or cancer that is part of me then it also carries my energy. It probably used my energy to grow anyway. Then why should it be any different for a baby who attaches itself to the womb and grows. If energy flows through our bodies, then of course it is going to be part of the baby. So I think we have a soul at conception which grows and develops from there just like the baby and its mind do.

All these theories about the soul coming from god or entering the body after birth seem a bit far fetched for me. Have you ever seen god or noticed the time when your baby seems to suddenly have a soul? There is a lack of evidence to back those claims up but there is more evidence towards psychic connections with our mothers who share our energy. Thats not to say some dont have a psychic connection with their fathers. But for those who do that development comes after birth I think.

#38

hi’

IT IS SAID IN HINDU EPIC MAHABARATA that son of arjun, Abhimanau learnt to break chakraveive(a battle formation) while he was still in the womb.

#39

Nichole
I think the simplest way to understand the Yogic ideas of “jiva/atman” is through the analogy of a radio. The waves of radio propagate all over the space on earth, but can be tapped into a receiver only when it is equipped with a proper antenna.

Similarly “Brahman” or the universal spirit is all pervading, but can only be tapped by different objects in nature according to the power of their antennas. There are basically five layers of richness at which this can be tapped, and they correspond to the five sheaths of a human body : annamaya (the layer of inanimate matter), pranamaya (the layer of breath), manomaya (the layer of sensory-motor control), buddhimaya (the layer of intellect and understanding) and chinmaya (the layer of ego and consciousness supported by memory). These five layers form a pyramid, and at the very apex lies the infinitesimal “Atman” whose nature is entirely the same as “Brahman” : that of non-dual bliss (ananda). For this reason, the very peak of this pyramid is termed “anandamaya”, and this refers to enlightenment.

This pyramid is called the mountain of Meru, and holds high symbolic importance in Hinduism and Buddhism. The various Tantric yantras and the Buddhist mandalas are built over this concept. This also serves as the architectural basis for Hindu and Buddhist temples.

Different “jivas” in nature can tap to only part of these layers. For example, rocks belong only to the inanimate layer, and are not even called as “jivas”. Plants have two layers of inanimate matter and breath. Animals have the additional layer of mind (sensory-motor control) etc.

The body of a human being can tap to all the five layers, and is thus one of the most advanced antennas in this universe. The various faculties of a human being evolve slowly : starting from breath, to sensory-motor control, to linguistic understanding and finally ego. If a person is especially capable, he/she reaches to the pleasure of bliss.

So coming back to your question, “when does the soul enter the body ?”, there is no single point in time. Further, it is not the soul that enters the body, but the body that enters the soul ! And this journey is continuous, and may even span several life-times, according to Buddhism or Hinduism.

So I don’t know if you should use the word “soul” when talking of “Atman” or “self”. It gets very confusing because the word soul has several connotations : that it has a fixed locus in space and time, that it has a fixed point of origin / creation etc… On the other hand, “Atman” has no locus in space and time, and it is perennial, with no beginning and no end. It is essentially of the same nature as Brahman.

#40

This is really tricky, Only Guru can answer this questions.

I literally get puzzled when my Guru Unity gave lectures on this topic.

#41

:)Hi,
I really like reading your post. I feel the soul is living in our heart when we are alive. After we die, the soul will fly away through the top of our head. I’m not sure if I’m right about it or not. Please let me know what you think. When I was reading your post I feel you were able to see your father’s soul leaving the body. How did you see it? Look forward to hearing from you!
Thank you,
Jean[QUOTE=Pandara;8803]Hi Nicole,

This is an important question and I am glad you posed it, as I think it goes to the old question about the right to life and issues around abortion as well.

About the body/soul connection: I do belief that there is a connection, but that this connection is more or less determined by your spiritual evolution and awareness. The less spiritually aware a person is, the identification is more with the physical body and the needs of the body. The focus of such an individual is also “me” and “I” and his or her individual needs. The greater the spiritual awareness, I find that there is less identification with the physical body and instead of being me-orientated, such an individual is more concerned about the group or the bigger picture.

When does a soul come into the body: I live near a state hospital where I know they perform hundreds of abortions on a daily basis. Sometimes my awareness is drawn to this hospital to help souls who had to endure an abortion. Initially I was very upset and I questioned it a lot until a very kind and gentle Angel impressed it one day on my mind that many of those souls who experienced abortion, was due to a karmic situation. I felt at peace immediately. It was also impressed on me that many of the aborted bodies had no soul in them, the Divine plan knew which ones need a soul to experience the trauma of abortion and which ones not. So my own personal belief is that it depends on the age old ingredient of the recipe of the Universe which we call karma.

Is the soul attached to the body: It is attached in the sense that it needs the body to perform certain duties and to experience certain situations while in it. When my father died in 2006 I was fortunate enough to be beside him and to help him through my intuition to move out of his body and to go with the beautiful Angel of Death. The soul departed as soon as his breath stopped and it was very quick, he had a moment in which he paused, but then he moved on and I had contact with him only after about six months again. What was interesting for me was that the point of departure was where the fontanelle is situated, you know that soft spot ontop of a baby’s head which closes later. This area was very hot with my father and on a energy level there was a huge Light there in his auric body, which was for the rest of his body nearly colourless. However what did remain was what we call the silver cord, that only completely faded after three days. I assume from there the Christain belief to bury the dead only after three days.

Would like to read other views as well as I think this can be a very interesting post.[/QUOTE]

#42

I believe the soul is a spontaneous creation by God at the time of conception.

It is immaterial and indestructible. Since it is immaterial, it is not “in” the body, but is connected to it in some way.

It is the life force of the body, and that which somehow retains our personhood upon death, and will live on in either Heaven or Hell, depending upon the choice it makes to love and serve God or to rebel against him. Those souls who go to Heaven will one day be reunited with their bodies, though now perfected, spiritualized, and immortal, and will live happily forever. The damned will also be reunited to their bodies, but will be resurrected to a life devoid of God’s special presence.

#43

:smiley:
jeanlee411, prasad, vakids, Yoga & Unity, water and thomas: my thanks to each of you for adding to the discussion.

#44

[QUOTE=thomas;43159]I believe the soul is a spontaneous creation by God at the time of conception.

It is immaterial and indestructible. Since it is immaterial, it is not “in” the body, but is connected to it in some way.

It is the life force of the body, and that which somehow retains our personhood upon death, and will live on in either Heaven or Hell, depending upon the choice it makes to love and serve God or to rebel against him. Those souls who go to Heaven will one day be reunited with their bodies, though now perfected, spiritualized, and immortal, and will live happily forever. The damned will also be reunited to their bodies, but will be resurrected to a life devoid of God’s special presence.[/QUOTE]

I agree with what you say until the bits about heaven and hell, but that’s minor.

#45

a very interesting thread indeed!!!
let me put my half penny bit-
the soul reincarnates to proceed further in his journey towards the almighty, in doing so he collects karmic loads inadvertently or by design, the positives n the negatives. to proceed he has to lighten himself of the useless burden.
the first thing he has to think is the circumstances n time in which to arrive afresh.
the first n foremost thing is the form he has to take which is decided by the DNA of his new avatar and hence the choice of his parents.
the mix of the chromosome that will give him the desired shape physically n mentally will b a particular sperm which has the right combination and thus he enters that particular sperm. Now its not only the sperm which decides his form but the egg with a chosen combination of 23 chromosome. So he has to wait for right opportunity.
DNA gives him his choice before he incarnates and epigenetics gives him rewards and punishments for his doings in his present birth. few unrewarded karmas are carried forward by him for a tiring search of a new DNA.

#46

[quote=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/quote]

I wanted to repost the original questions and my invitation to help keep the conversation focused. There are so many potential conversations to have on this expansive topic, and so many of us are moved to consider what we hold as opinions, beliefs and experience :smiley: this is fantastic and so appreciated. Thank you!

Some joyful news to share with all of you: yesterday, my own pregnancy reached full-term at 37 weeks, meaning that my baby’s next transition of birth is coming very soon. I appreciate all of you adding what you have, and if I could ask something additionally from you, it would be to get even more personal in your sharing by sharing from your own experiences with your children and lives – where the Shakti prana and Grace are felt most deeply by us.

My own spiritual heart is, as dramatically as my body, transitioning in support of growing and birthing this child, and in support of me and family, as my husband and I transition into papa and momma. It is miraculous, and it is also so natural and filled with Grace, and because all of it is simply part of human nature, it again lands on miraculous for me :slight_smile:

Nichole

#47

[QUOTE=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/QUOTE]
During the course of my Yoga training, I have come across two separate theories about this.

The first one states that the soul enters the baby’s body via prana when it takes its first breath.

According to another book I read (one of the Vedas), the jiva comes down in the rain and waters the vegetation that man eats, then it gets stored in the sperm/ova…

Personally, I think that the soul enters the body sometime during the transition from zygote to embryo…when it gets past the ‘clump of cells’ stage and starts to resemble a little person…

The reason why I believe this, is because if the soul entered the body after birth, then abortion wouldn’t really be an issue…but it is…

I believe the soul is inside the body…inside the ‘spiritual heart’ like a flame…but it’s not really ‘inside’…because it’s on a different ‘sheath’ to the gross physical body…so yeah, you can also say it’s ‘attached’ to the body, but that would be incorrect as well. lol

#48

First of all I do not claim to know the answer to the query of this thread. It just reminded me of the Bardo Thodol -Tibetan Book of the Dead, to which no reference has been made in this thread. The appearance of sexual visions preceding re-entry (incarnation) is well described in part 3; the Sidpa Bardo. The visions of sexual union may sometimes be followed by visions of conception - you may actually visualize the sperm uniting with the ovum - , of intra-uterine life and birth through the womb…
See more at http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tib23.html.
I add this for the sake of completeness; it does not necessarily reflect what I believe. As to the nature of the Soul see http://awwware.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/the-tetrahedron-of-jnana/

#49

[QUOTE=Nichole;8796]What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren't taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul "attached" to the body? Inside the body?*[/QUOTE]

Jivatmais the Soul and is reflection from five causal elements/tanmatras/. Atma-Spirith shines, and its reflection plus Atma plus Kundalini is the SOUL.

We can see the SOUL as AURA.

The Atma comes in our body at 12-th week.