When does the soul come to the body?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#41

:)Hi,
I really like reading your post. I feel the soul is living in our heart when we are alive. After we die, the soul will fly away through the top of our head. I’m not sure if I’m right about it or not. Please let me know what you think. When I was reading your post I feel you were able to see your father’s soul leaving the body. How did you see it? Look forward to hearing from you!
Thank you,
Jean[QUOTE=Pandara;8803]Hi Nicole,

This is an important question and I am glad you posed it, as I think it goes to the old question about the right to life and issues around abortion as well.

About the body/soul connection: I do belief that there is a connection, but that this connection is more or less determined by your spiritual evolution and awareness. The less spiritually aware a person is, the identification is more with the physical body and the needs of the body. The focus of such an individual is also “me” and “I” and his or her individual needs. The greater the spiritual awareness, I find that there is less identification with the physical body and instead of being me-orientated, such an individual is more concerned about the group or the bigger picture.

When does a soul come into the body: I live near a state hospital where I know they perform hundreds of abortions on a daily basis. Sometimes my awareness is drawn to this hospital to help souls who had to endure an abortion. Initially I was very upset and I questioned it a lot until a very kind and gentle Angel impressed it one day on my mind that many of those souls who experienced abortion, was due to a karmic situation. I felt at peace immediately. It was also impressed on me that many of the aborted bodies had no soul in them, the Divine plan knew which ones need a soul to experience the trauma of abortion and which ones not. So my own personal belief is that it depends on the age old ingredient of the recipe of the Universe which we call karma.

Is the soul attached to the body: It is attached in the sense that it needs the body to perform certain duties and to experience certain situations while in it. When my father died in 2006 I was fortunate enough to be beside him and to help him through my intuition to move out of his body and to go with the beautiful Angel of Death. The soul departed as soon as his breath stopped and it was very quick, he had a moment in which he paused, but then he moved on and I had contact with him only after about six months again. What was interesting for me was that the point of departure was where the fontanelle is situated, you know that soft spot ontop of a baby’s head which closes later. This area was very hot with my father and on a energy level there was a huge Light there in his auric body, which was for the rest of his body nearly colourless. However what did remain was what we call the silver cord, that only completely faded after three days. I assume from there the Christain belief to bury the dead only after three days.

Would like to read other views as well as I think this can be a very interesting post.[/QUOTE]

#42

I believe the soul is a spontaneous creation by God at the time of conception.

It is immaterial and indestructible. Since it is immaterial, it is not “in” the body, but is connected to it in some way.

It is the life force of the body, and that which somehow retains our personhood upon death, and will live on in either Heaven or Hell, depending upon the choice it makes to love and serve God or to rebel against him. Those souls who go to Heaven will one day be reunited with their bodies, though now perfected, spiritualized, and immortal, and will live happily forever. The damned will also be reunited to their bodies, but will be resurrected to a life devoid of God’s special presence.

#43

:smiley:
jeanlee411, prasad, vakids, Yoga & Unity, water and thomas: my thanks to each of you for adding to the discussion.

#44

[QUOTE=thomas;43159]I believe the soul is a spontaneous creation by God at the time of conception.

It is immaterial and indestructible. Since it is immaterial, it is not “in” the body, but is connected to it in some way.

It is the life force of the body, and that which somehow retains our personhood upon death, and will live on in either Heaven or Hell, depending upon the choice it makes to love and serve God or to rebel against him. Those souls who go to Heaven will one day be reunited with their bodies, though now perfected, spiritualized, and immortal, and will live happily forever. The damned will also be reunited to their bodies, but will be resurrected to a life devoid of God’s special presence.[/QUOTE]

I agree with what you say until the bits about heaven and hell, but that’s minor.

#45

a very interesting thread indeed!!!
let me put my half penny bit-
the soul reincarnates to proceed further in his journey towards the almighty, in doing so he collects karmic loads inadvertently or by design, the positives n the negatives. to proceed he has to lighten himself of the useless burden.
the first thing he has to think is the circumstances n time in which to arrive afresh.
the first n foremost thing is the form he has to take which is decided by the DNA of his new avatar and hence the choice of his parents.
the mix of the chromosome that will give him the desired shape physically n mentally will b a particular sperm which has the right combination and thus he enters that particular sperm. Now its not only the sperm which decides his form but the egg with a chosen combination of 23 chromosome. So he has to wait for right opportunity.
DNA gives him his choice before he incarnates and epigenetics gives him rewards and punishments for his doings in his present birth. few unrewarded karmas are carried forward by him for a tiring search of a new DNA.

#46

[quote=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/quote]

I wanted to repost the original questions and my invitation to help keep the conversation focused. There are so many potential conversations to have on this expansive topic, and so many of us are moved to consider what we hold as opinions, beliefs and experience :smiley: this is fantastic and so appreciated. Thank you!

Some joyful news to share with all of you: yesterday, my own pregnancy reached full-term at 37 weeks, meaning that my baby’s next transition of birth is coming very soon. I appreciate all of you adding what you have, and if I could ask something additionally from you, it would be to get even more personal in your sharing by sharing from your own experiences with your children and lives – where the Shakti prana and Grace are felt most deeply by us.

My own spiritual heart is, as dramatically as my body, transitioning in support of growing and birthing this child, and in support of me and family, as my husband and I transition into papa and momma. It is miraculous, and it is also so natural and filled with Grace, and because all of it is simply part of human nature, it again lands on miraculous for me :slight_smile:

Nichole

#47

[QUOTE=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/QUOTE]
During the course of my Yoga training, I have come across two separate theories about this.

The first one states that the soul enters the baby’s body via prana when it takes its first breath.

According to another book I read (one of the Vedas), the jiva comes down in the rain and waters the vegetation that man eats, then it gets stored in the sperm/ova…

Personally, I think that the soul enters the body sometime during the transition from zygote to embryo…when it gets past the ‘clump of cells’ stage and starts to resemble a little person…

The reason why I believe this, is because if the soul entered the body after birth, then abortion wouldn’t really be an issue…but it is…

I believe the soul is inside the body…inside the ‘spiritual heart’ like a flame…but it’s not really ‘inside’…because it’s on a different ‘sheath’ to the gross physical body…so yeah, you can also say it’s ‘attached’ to the body, but that would be incorrect as well. lol

#48

First of all I do not claim to know the answer to the query of this thread. It just reminded me of the Bardo Thodol -Tibetan Book of the Dead, to which no reference has been made in this thread. The appearance of sexual visions preceding re-entry (incarnation) is well described in part 3; the Sidpa Bardo. The visions of sexual union may sometimes be followed by visions of conception - you may actually visualize the sperm uniting with the ovum - , of intra-uterine life and birth through the womb…
See more at http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tib23.html.
I add this for the sake of completeness; it does not necessarily reflect what I believe. As to the nature of the Soul see http://awwware.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/the-tetrahedron-of-jnana/

#49

[QUOTE=Nichole;8796]What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren't taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul "attached" to the body? Inside the body?*[/QUOTE]

Jivatmais the Soul and is reflection from five causal elements/tanmatras/. Atma-Spirith shines, and its reflection plus Atma plus Kundalini is the SOUL.

We can see the SOUL as AURA.

The Atma comes in our body at 12-th week.

#50

The wish for an answer to the question of this thread is probably for the most of you born out curiosity. For me it is of practical importance as in my job as patent examiner I have to give a judgement on the ethical implications of stem cell therapy, wherein the stem cells are made by destruction of an embryo. It is already a scientific fact that stem cell therapy can make paralysed people walk again, Parkinson patients have their tremor removed etc. Therefore if in the early stage of an embryo the soul has not entered the clump of cells (morula, blastula, neurula) yet, it is less ethical to refrain from stem cell therapy and deprive a patient from a cure than applying the treatment. However, if the clump of cell already has a soul, then to destroy it is murder. Fortunately, stem cell therapy with stem cells from the umbilical cord blood collected at birth, nowadays becomes a potent alternative to the destruction of embryos and secondly, as of yet, the destruction of embryos for th use of stem cell therapy, is still deemed contrary to the principles of morality in Europe and hence not patentable. Unfortunately, in certain other countries this line of thought is not followed.

#51

LESSONS FROM GOD ; What happens to a Baby’s Soul after Abortion or Miscarriage

                  (Please think about this then read the following)

One fine morning at home, I was chanting mantras when Sai Babaji appeared and said ''Amarjit, come with me", we reappeared in a Gurudwara (temple) with my wife also sitting next to me in the temple Hall.

Babaji looked at us and said ‘’ I have brought someone to meet you’’

       I said,  "Baba 'who have you brought''
                            Baba said ''Come, meet your other daughter''

I was totally confused ''Baba you are mistaken we have a daughter we do not have another, ‘’

   '' AHA,!  said Baba   '' She is your other daughter, do you not, remember the trauma your wife suffered during miscarriage 15 years ago?"
     I replied,  "Baba, why have you brought her to see us''  

I saw this girl standing next to us tall and very serene as if she had been touched by the hand of GOD!.

  Baba said '' Amarjit, When the mother has a miscarriage or Abortion it is not automatic that the child's soul ascends, If the parents are constantly immersed  in prayers then God intervenes and send Angels to  take the Baby soul to Heaven/appropriate place, if not in prayers -- then the Baby soul can be trapped in Limbo, becoming a BHOOT/Spirit , and normally attaches itself to it's mother where it is home! 




   From the mothers body the Baby soul may cause untold Trauma to its Mother/father and all around. Many times the Soul has no idea that its body/temple has died! The soul watches everything the parents do and interferes with their emotions.  Amarjit, this is why its important to immerse in God prayers always.

God has acknowledged your prayers & Devotion & intervened to take your baby soul Home!".

   Baba  took hold of our daughters hand and the gates of Heaven opened and he disappeared with the Angels.
   Its only when the Hand of God touches us we realise there is more to life then what we perceive.

We should open our senses and allow our Inner Godhead to awaken.

Baba says "I am God, You too are God but you fail to recognise this!

SAT NAAM SATNAAM OM SAI RAM Amarjit

Click here: Abortion

With Miscarriage and Abortions invariably the baby soul stays within the mothers Womb where it was conceived as it is home to it.
The mother has no idea why she has gone into depression after miscarriage or abortion. She has no idea it could be the Traumatic Soul stuck to her.

From the womb the Baby Soul then may choose to cause a lot of suffering to her host/ ie Mom and people around. If the baby Soul becomes possessive of the Mother then it will invariably become very jealous and act accordingly with the people attached to MOM!

With an Abortion / Miscarriage while it may be argued that the foetus has no soul in it in the early stages, it was shown to me by Baba that the foetus can be classified as a Phantom Living organism of the Mother similar to ’ The Phantom Limb’.

So Aborting the foetus is similar to that of having a trauma when you loose part of your body, say the Limb , Kidney etc. The very fact of removing this living organism causes Untold trauma especially in the Mother.
Our body is the temple of God ‘Do not defile your Temple’.

Being born as a woman conceiving Wow, Men find it hard to understand why their women behave strangely.
Think about this - for approx 9 months the Mother has 2 soul within her body hers and the baby’s.
The baby’s mind can also influence the mother during this period!

Case Study :

My first teaching from Baba happened at a friend’s house.
We were praying and suddenly I saw inside his mothers womb a baby soul due to an old miscarriage some 40 years previously.
I asked his Mother to ask God to release this soul to Heaven.
She became nasty and I was asked to leave immediately!
Nowadays I have to be very careful how I word myself.

Case Study
I was praying with a woman who had gone into depression and ill health when suddenly Sai Baba showed me in her womb was a dark energy. I spoke to this energy and it manifested to 2 Aborted souls which the mother had inside her for over 9 years!.
The souls were jealous of each other and fighting each other inside her womb giving her health and emotional problems within her family. Baba took the souls away after we prayed for their release their Karma to be forgiven . The lady since has changed for the better.

Case Study
Another lady suffering from Weakness/Emotional problems had darkness attached to her breast.
When I spoke to this darkness it turned out to be an aborted baby soul which was sucking her mothers breast for milk , energetically and draining Mom of all her energies.
A SPIRIT HAS LIMITLESS Energy
Baba then took away this soul as well. She has changed for the better since with Gods Grace.

 If the women dies with the soul still stuck with her then this becomes a Karmic issue. If say the women is reborn   as a man or a woman in the next life this trauma still follows the person reincarnated.

We have seen sometimes the energy becomes absorbed into a Karma Issue or in some cases the Soul waits for the rebirth of the soul it was attached to and as soon as it reincarnates it attaches itself to this Soul , the new body may not be a women it could be a man.
This Karma can be released thru mantras, prayer deep devotion to God or Sadhanas like Vortex , or the Grace of your Guru.
Amarjit

Click here: Spiritual Reality - Transcribed | dotSUB

Click here: Phantom limb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Click here: The Hickman Academy, for Spirit Release and Healing Remote Spirit Release, Worldwide

Click here: Contact us - Wanda Pratnicka exorcist,parapsychologist - kontakt

To keep our self free of Spirits and Bhoots it is essential to pray and or meditate.
The spirits do NOT like when we go into silence or prayers.
I remember some years ago after an overseas visit to Nairobi I was praying in my room , when suddenly I could see thru the walls of the House at that particular time, I saw floating along the other room and down the hall way and coming straight to me a being which was like a jelly fish but denser, it floated up to me and then tried to enter me,
I felt the skin on my hands burning and then I heard this being Screaming for it was burnt too, by the Power of prayers . it ran away screaming .
The prayers I had been chanting had saved me

#52

[QUOTE=Hubert;8801]Sinchronicity ?
It just so happens that I have been listening to this lecture about Waldorf education, and this guy talks about how they see the evolution of children.
They say, the physical body is born at birth, this seems obvious. But the vital body, etheral body as they call it, (pranamaya kosha) is not totally born, meaning separate from the mother’s until 7 years of age. This second birth is said to be manifested physically by the change of teeth. The “astral” body what is closest of what usually called soul, the emotional “desire” body is also attached to that of the parents’, until the age of 14, and this third “birth” manifests as puberty. The fourth birth would be when the Ego is free of any parental influence, the man or woman is a grown up, an individual with the sense of being someone. This is set to the age of 21.
This theory (as I am uncapable to verify it by spiritual sight as I lack that) seems credible to my intuition … when I was in 4th year of college, and thought back to my life, anything before 21-22 was like a dream, like I was sleeping and somehow, non existent.

Now, as antroposophy teaches, this is not where evolution stops, altough modern science thinks it does. Modern science is too focused on cantitative and perceptual knowledge to acknowledge individual growth through intuition, emotion or morality.
But antroposophy says our goal is to further evolve our physical, vital and astral bodies to the level where all these are spiritualized.
So I think, because I don’t know teachings regarding this, that the evolution of a human continues, with a qualitative change, or jump every seven years, even if these are not as obvious or important that the first three ones. These are slower and not always outwardly apparent changes. The reason would be that all living humans did succed throughout history and several incarnations to develop the physical, vital, astral bodies and the ego, and the evoution of a child just repeats this in a much shorter timeframe. What is yet to be done, this is what we work on between 21 and the end of our lives, and we build our future “selves” brick by brick, day by day, experience by experience.

So the answer to your question is function of what do we mean by soul, and what is that soul’s journey, because there are several “births” even if one lifetime.
For example, I feel that during 2007 (7x 5 = 35 years old), I passed through a crysis and obstacles what changed me in a way that it can be called a new birth itself.

PS. These births are not to be seen as if before them the ego, astral or vital bodies are non-existent, but rather than unseparated of the coresponding worlds (lokas). Children seem to maintain a spiritual sight until the age of three (ocassionally to five), and if we watch carefully, we realize that often they know things they should not know by ordinary perception or senses. For example they seem to have a keen emotional intuition, immediatly knowing how their parents or even strangers feel.[/QUOTE]

What an explanation Great post, I have a question how is this related with by the change of teeth?

#53

I have conflicting ideas as to when this may happen. I was never taught anything about this subject so it has been a life learned belief. I do know that I had conversations with my granddaughter prior to her birth. This happened the last half of the pregnancy. It was quite amazing to say the least.

#54

[QUOTE=HealthAndYoga;67958]What an explanation Great post, I have a question how is this related with by the change of teeth?[/QUOTE]

Elephants for example (and many other mammals) change their teeth many times, all their lives. I have been give the explanation that the forces what produce the teeth in the physical body, are being used after the age of 7, after our final set of teeth are built, to create our mental “nature”. I have said, that the vital body is finished just about at this age, and now the mental body starts to develop. This body, or kosha is not like the vital one, what is basicly a vital, pranic double of the physical. The mental body is a sphere, or rather like an egg, and exceeds ones physical dimensions. It is built of thoughts ideas, feelings, desires, and so on.
(Of course, these subtle levels of existence , vital-pranic-etheric, mental-manasic-astral, and the Self, these are non-existing from the pow of materialist science - they seem to have a fixation on the idea of matter, whatever that might be-)

This is why, we only get one set of teeth, for life. The creative forces what build these, are used for a higher purpose later on. The tradeoff is worth it, in my opinion. Basicly we pay for a very human trait, the ability to think, by having only a single set of teeth for an entire lifetime.

Now, the good question is, are primates able to think ? THis I leave for homework. :smiley:

PS. My question about the exact time when the descending spiritual ansamble is linked to the fertilized egg is still pendig. Stay tuned for the final answer on this topic ! :smiley:

#55

And apparently, the incarnation really starts after 2-3 weeks after conception. It is said that an angel - perhaps the guardian angel of the child to be born - makes the announcment for the mother (and perhaps the father too ?) if they are willing and able to listen.

Just as a peculiar fact, 'cos I am unable to verify it … yet. :slight_smile:

#56

[QUOTE=vakibs;29820][B]Nichole[/B]
I think the simplest way to understand the Yogic ideas of “jiva/atman” is through the analogy of a radio. The waves of radio propagate all over the space on earth, but can be tapped into a receiver only when it is equipped with a proper antenna.

Similarly “Brahman” or the universal spirit is all pervading, but can only be tapped by different objects in nature according to the power of their antennas. There are basically five layers of richness at which this can be tapped, and they correspond to the five sheaths of a human body : annamaya (the layer of inanimate matter), pranamaya (the layer of breath), manomaya (the layer of sensory-motor control), buddhimaya (the layer of intellect and understanding) and chinmaya (the layer of ego and consciousness supported by memory). These five layers form a pyramid, and at the very apex lies the infinitesimal “Atman” whose nature is entirely the same as “Brahman” : that of non-dual bliss (ananda). For this reason, the very peak of this pyramid is termed “anandamaya”, and this refers to enlightenment.

This pyramid is called the mountain of Meru, and holds high symbolic importance in Hinduism and Buddhism. The various Tantric yantras and the Buddhist mandalas are built over this concept. This also serves as the architectural basis for Hindu and Buddhist temples.

Different “jivas” in nature can tap to only part of these layers. For example, rocks belong only to the inanimate layer, and are not even called as “jivas”. Plants have two layers of inanimate matter and breath. Animals have the additional layer of mind (sensory-motor control) etc.

The body of a human being can tap to all the five layers, and is thus one of the most advanced antennas in this universe. The various faculties of a human being evolve slowly : starting from breath, to sensory-motor control, to linguistic understanding and finally ego. If a person is especially capable, he/she reaches to the pleasure of bliss.

So coming back to your question, “when does the soul enter the body ?”, there is no single point in time. Further, it is not the soul that enters the body, but the body that enters the soul ! And this journey is continuous, and may even span several life-times, according to Buddhism or Hinduism.

So I don’t know if you should use the word “soul” when talking of “Atman” or “self”. It gets very confusing because the word soul has several connotations : that it has a fixed locus in space and time, that it has a fixed point of origin / creation etc… On the other hand, “Atman” has no locus in space and time, and it is perennial, with no beginning and no end. It is essentially of the same nature as Brahman.[/QUOTE]

Basicly what I have said. You see how beautifully these various tradiotions complement each other and are not really in conflict, if one digs deep enough. All the more reason to seek and learn as much we are able, to try and test everything and do not reject anything from start.

#57

Nichole,

My soul is me. Why would I need a quote from a book, a scripture or a saint? Quoting will only display a gap between what I want to believe but can’t.

Many experiences tell me that subtle comes first and the gross follows as its manifestation. It is seen every moment with a thought preceding an action or instincts preceding a verbalized thought. If I keep tracing back from my physical body in meditation, engulfed in light, my identity sinks in deeper and lighter terrain landing into awareness of nothing. That ‘nothing’ is not the end, but a beginning of the soul’s domain.

I also realize that ‘soul should have a form, a location, an identity’ is my human need, because of my predispositions. But if the soul is the subtlest of all why should it? Likewise, everything manifest seems to have a life cycle - birth, growth/ decay and death. If gross is born from subtle, on the death of the gross only subtle remains. So, after everything is gone, the soul remains; until it returns to the drawing board to plan one more reincarnation.

So, I believe ‘the soul doesn’t enter the body’ the soul is always there, and body enters the world as the soul’s proxy. The mother-child relationship is excellent, but I would stretch it to its ultimum; mother being a conglomerate of organs, organs born from cells, cells from molecules, molecules from atoms, atoms from particles, particles from forcefields, forcefields from energy itself - the soul. Soul is the mother of all. Soul is one and not many - it only reflects in all its children!

#58

Ive read its something like 49 days after conception. That is the Buddhist belief, at least one kind of Buddhism. That is also the day the pineal gland is made, sometimes referred to as the seat of the soul.