When does the soul come to the body?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

Bridgette,
Thank you for being more specific. :smiley: This helps all of us to be more clear on what you sharing in terms of your beliefs on when a body becomes animated by a soul. I am always curious about this belief (perspective, whatever) that the soul comes to the body after birth when it is held by a woman who has delivered a child and herself become a mother. Is it too personal of a question to ask how you came to this belief? If not, please share and if so, please respect that.

Just for clarity for all the readers, the embryonic and/or fetal heart beats due to a number of physiological factors, not solely the presence of O2. Also, there can be–and likely will be with the absence of severe brain injury–a short period of brain function and awareness even after the heart stops beating and the last breath is taken due the to O2 and glucose rations of the central nervous system.

Namaste

#22

Is there a Body? a soul?

#23

The whole plant has only one soul so when the leaves and fruits from it are plucked you are not killing (removing the soul from the body of the plant) the plant. There are some varities of Mango Trees which when 2 different types (like bangapalli and rumani) of mango trees, the branches are combined together.

This being the case it is said in the vedas that vegetables and fruits are to be served to God before eating it to avoid bad karma only for Hindus and Brahmins in particular.

In any case the plant itself is not killed when only the fruits and vegetables are plucked from it.

Some animals in some parts of the world can be eaten for example goat can be eaten ONLY after giving sacrifice to the Godess. This is prescribed only for the Hindus in the vedas. Others can eat insignificant animals.

When Gallelio said earth rotates around sun they gave him poison for telling the truth, but when later it was found to be true nobody cared to feel sorry for him. So where is the proof of the Earth revolving around sun. Could anybody prove and show to people? Can satellite do that?
Then how you people believe such a thing without proof, but asking for proof for this one Soul and REincarnation? I couldn’t understand.

Likewise after the soul leaves the body, the body decays. The decaying body is the proof of the soul once inside it. Is there any better way to prove the existence of the soul?
still there are people to argue.

If this is the case then it is only logical to conclude that the same soul will re-enter another body which it does according to its previous karma(s). The body may be either of the bird, plant, animals or insects or bugs depending upon the kind of karma it has done.

The vedas says the soul enters the sperm at the time of conception. So the sperms itself has no life, but as soon as the soul enters the sperm which it is forced to enter by its Karmic principles, it pushes its way through to the ovum. Does this not look like science for you then what else will?

Nobody can prove and show to the world how the soul “Empowered” sperm enters the ovum while the couple is copulating.

While it is a well known fact that there are millions of sperms in one ejaculation but only one succeeds in entering (rarely in cases of twins more than one soul enters 2 different sperms) which is a brilliant proof that only one has life, which is what the vedas says that fits the explanation perfectly.

The soul thus enters the womb of a woman through the Sperm finding its way through the ovum and thus reaches the embryo stage before growing into a full grown baby. It is therefore absurd to say that the body gets consciousness. The body is consciouss because of the presence of the soul.
The soul in the body of a human has higher consciousness and that of dog and cat has lower cosciousness etc…

It is only too logical to conclude that the soul born to a brahmin family has higher consciousness.
I still doubt people will doubt and will fail to understand. That is also said in the vedas in KaliYuga people will be so dull and poor in intelligence.

#24

Rashmi, if by abortion we are killing the chance of a soul to take incarnation as human and progress his journey upward, where do you suppose karma comes into it in that case? i thought that whatever we incarnate as be it as aborted foetus etc etc is due to the law of karma. Maybe the soul chose to come into a womb where he would be aborted as part of his karmic debt?

#25

When the parents are aborting then it is amounting to killing. The parents get the punishment for killing. There is answer in the vedas for everything.

You should not be assuming without studying vedas.

#26

[quote=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?
If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?
Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/quote]

Please, keep to the original questions of this thread. If you’d would personally like to discuss abortion, or any other topic, please begin a new thread in the proper sub forum.

#27

Hello Jaisimha,
Please, speak specifically and succinctly to which of the vedas you are drawing from.

*nichole

#28

Nothing is NOT given in Bhagavadgita. This information is from Bhagavadgita.

#29

The Bhagavad Gita, thank you. I had always been taught that the Mahabharata was a corollary of the Vedas; that it was post Vedic.
Please, if you would, share the author of the Gita translation you are citing and the exact verse. I am very curious about this, so I thank you in anticipation.

#30

Yogananda answerd this question in his book: Hidden Teachings of the Gospels.

[I]When the soul enters physical incarnation at conception, the entire body grows from the seed cell. From its original seat in the medulla oblongata, the life energy flows downward, activating the seven astral cerebrospinal chakras, that create and give the physical spine, nervous system and the whole body. When the work of the life force is complete, it comes to rest in a coiled passage in the lowest coccygeal center.

Here the name kundalini or serpent force. In Sanskrit kundala=coiled

Because it completed its creative work, it is said to be “sleeping kundalini.”

Man’s physical, astral, and causal bodies are tied together and work as one by a knotting of life force and consciousness in the seven cerebrospinal centers.

The final tie is a coiled knot at the base of the spine, PREVENTING the ascension of consciousness into the heavily astral kingdom. UNLESS one knows how to open this knot of astral and physical power, the life and consciousness remain attracted to the mortal realm.[/I]

#31

[quote=Nichole;8796]Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?
Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?[/quote]

Nice topic Nichole.

In my experience it is the body that is within the soul. Not an individual soul attaching to a body. All phenomena is contained and happens within consciousness, or as you might call it: soul.

All thoughts about an individual soul ultimately don’t hold any substantial value either. These experiences and sensations of being an individual personal identity, or even an individual soul, simply vanish from the angle-less perception of Free Awareness. [U]Being[/U] simply is being equally in all experiences.

So I feel that whether we belief in an individual soul or not, these beliefs and the actual experiences that go with it, vanish like dreams before the pure light of truth and unity that is all pervasive. There is no benefit in holding on to these points of view of any individual existing anywhere. The most beneficial and immediate freedom is realized to be already here when we acknowledge the fact that there is only One. Within that one many forms seem to appear, but they too are just that One.

So too is the body simply an appearance and disappearance within the pure unity of awareness. There is no identity of individual substance to be found anywhere. Only through our beliefs and thoughts/emotions and sensations is there duality and identity of any kind, whether bodily or soul-like. Both are like waves on the ocean, like rays of the sun, and like space within space. There is nothing to uphold nor has there ever been anything upheld. There is nothing to define for all is simply Free Awareness. Whether described and labelled or not, all is but a dream within awareness, existing of nothing but pure and spacious awareness.

To go into details of what we are as individuals and how we came about, is just like adding space to space, it doesn’t lead us anywhere. If anything, it only keeps us from recognizing what we already are. Which is impersonal and universal Love/Awareness. Soul or no Soul, both are just concepts and experiences within the vastness of Awareness.

Just for a second, let go of all you belief to be, let all these beliefs about soul, karma, bodies, atman etc be. In that peace of letting it be for even just a moment, you will see that none of these concepts ever have any substance or power over the aware spaciousness that you are, you are always free from their definitions. That which is free and aware is what you truly are and it does not need any defining or explaining or appointing yourself an identity to any concept whatsoever. Be free from whatever you have been taught and you will find yourself, at least for that moment.

Let’s not get lost and keep it simple. Let us be as we are, free and undefined. Again and again untill this Free Awareness is our primary state of being and perceiving.

Love,
Bentinho.

#32

[U]Why abortions are bad? When you are aborting a foetus you are killing the chance of a soul who will take birth as human and progress his journey upward.You incur a sin of killing a soul, the result of which you will face.[/U] quote Rashmi.

in response to nichole, i was responding to the above statement made by Rashmi as i was under the impression that forums were for open discussion and was commenting on something that someone else had already raised.

#33

Nicole,

Here is the answer you asked.

Q: When does the soul enter the sperm of a male ('punsam retah-kana-asraya, SB 3.31.1)? According to medical science semen has millions of sperms and any of them can combine with an ovum. If they are moving can all of them have souls? Do the other sperms, which do not combine with with ovum, have to leave the sperm body?

A: In his BG As It Is 8.3, p., Srila Prabhupada quotes from Chandogya Upanisad: “In the process of sacrifice, the living entity makes specific sacrifices to attain specific heavenly planets and consequently reaches them. When the merit of sacrifice is exhausted, the living entity descends to Earth in the form of rain, then takes on the form of grains, and the grains are eaten by man and transformed into semen, which impregnates a woman, and thus the living entity once again attains the human form to perform sacrifice and so repeat the same cycle. In this way, the living entity perpetually comes and goes on the material path. The Krishna conscious person, however, avoids such sacrifices. He takes directly to Krishna consciousness and thereby prepares himself to return to Godhead.”

Yes, all the living sperm cells are inhabited by jivas. Science says the sperms after the intercourse live only for few hours and then die. Some research into Ayurveda could maybe reveal more information.

#34

[quote=Nichole;8796]I would love to hear about your opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and experiences that helped create your beliefs about the body and soul connection.

? What have you been taught about when the soul comes to the body?

? If you weren’t taught something, then how did you arrive at what you believe?

? Does the soul and body connection begin at conception? at birth? later?

? Is the soul “attached” to the body? Inside the body?

*[/quote]

I began this thread over two years ago, and now with so many new and interesting members joining our discussions here, I would like to bump this thread and to hear your thoughts and personal experiences on the original topic. My thanks in anticipation :slight_smile:

Namaste,
Nichole

#35

Nichole,
My view has nothing to do with yogic teachings, I’m afraid. I myself do not follow the specific teachings of any religious text. I was raised by a woman who was seeking her “Truth” and as a result had the great benefit of learning about several different paths of belief. As a result, I have become one who seeks to find her own Truth without religious dogma.
I do my best to keep an open mind while remaining sensibly (I hope) skeptical.
In my seeking, I have come across some books that speak of the hypnotic regression of subjects to a place that they describe as life between lives. This is the most satisfying and believable explanation I have come across in my 47 years.

What is described is that the joining of the soul to the body is explained as not becoming permanent until the child reaches up to 7 years of age. It will be different with each individual. The personality of the soul must merge with the personality of the physical being, and the two become one. The soul may enter the body at conception, just before, or during gestation or at the moment of birth. The soul is not required to stay in the body at this time, and it can come and go. It may choose to remain and not leave at all.

For me, this feels right. It does not matter if anyone else believes it. I like the idea, and I was fascinated with my child and interacted with him often. I do not doubt that the soul returns to the body during these times when it needs to be there to learn with the body and to interact with others.
Honestly, I’m not 100% sure if I truly believe this myself, but again, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is my living in this physical body and learning the lessons I came here to learn, to help my soul develop and grow.

I guess what I do believe is that when a child is very young, the soul is free to move about, until such a time as it becomes bound to the body, and “forgets” who it is, so that it can learn the lessons it came here to learn.

#36

Joanna,
I appreciate that you have added so thoughtfully to the conversation. Thank you for sharing.

I loved hearing how you connected to the collection of regression testimonies. The soul as fluid and dynamic, able to move as needed before joining permanently with the child, is a completely new concept for me and something for me to think more on.

I know that age of 7 is also important in other [I]traditions[/I] (for lack of specific, commonly shared term) as well. Shri Krishnamacharya spoke of the age 7 being when a focused practice of Yoga may begin for a student, and Rudolph Steiner speaks of the 7th year in his anthroposophic writings as well. Hubert, another member here, knows Steiner’s work well and shares about it here in other threads.

Thank you again,
Nichole

#37

Good question. Where does our soul come from?

I am not a religious person but am very open minded. I beleive our soul is passed on from our mother. If you think about it, it sounds logical…well to me it does.
I think my soul or energy, whatever you want to call it, stretches to every inch of my body. I do not differentiate between energy and the soul as it appears to be the same thing to me.
Anything that is part of my body also has my soul or energy in it. Would you agree? If I have a mole, a growth or cancer that is part of me then it also carries my energy. It probably used my energy to grow anyway. Then why should it be any different for a baby who attaches itself to the womb and grows. If energy flows through our bodies, then of course it is going to be part of the baby. So I think we have a soul at conception which grows and develops from there just like the baby and its mind do.

All these theories about the soul coming from god or entering the body after birth seem a bit far fetched for me. Have you ever seen god or noticed the time when your baby seems to suddenly have a soul? There is a lack of evidence to back those claims up but there is more evidence towards psychic connections with our mothers who share our energy. Thats not to say some dont have a psychic connection with their fathers. But for those who do that development comes after birth I think.

#38

hi’

IT IS SAID IN HINDU EPIC MAHABARATA that son of arjun, Abhimanau learnt to break chakraveive(a battle formation) while he was still in the womb.

#39

Nichole
I think the simplest way to understand the Yogic ideas of “jiva/atman” is through the analogy of a radio. The waves of radio propagate all over the space on earth, but can be tapped into a receiver only when it is equipped with a proper antenna.

Similarly “Brahman” or the universal spirit is all pervading, but can only be tapped by different objects in nature according to the power of their antennas. There are basically five layers of richness at which this can be tapped, and they correspond to the five sheaths of a human body : annamaya (the layer of inanimate matter), pranamaya (the layer of breath), manomaya (the layer of sensory-motor control), buddhimaya (the layer of intellect and understanding) and chinmaya (the layer of ego and consciousness supported by memory). These five layers form a pyramid, and at the very apex lies the infinitesimal “Atman” whose nature is entirely the same as “Brahman” : that of non-dual bliss (ananda). For this reason, the very peak of this pyramid is termed “anandamaya”, and this refers to enlightenment.

This pyramid is called the mountain of Meru, and holds high symbolic importance in Hinduism and Buddhism. The various Tantric yantras and the Buddhist mandalas are built over this concept. This also serves as the architectural basis for Hindu and Buddhist temples.

Different “jivas” in nature can tap to only part of these layers. For example, rocks belong only to the inanimate layer, and are not even called as “jivas”. Plants have two layers of inanimate matter and breath. Animals have the additional layer of mind (sensory-motor control) etc.

The body of a human being can tap to all the five layers, and is thus one of the most advanced antennas in this universe. The various faculties of a human being evolve slowly : starting from breath, to sensory-motor control, to linguistic understanding and finally ego. If a person is especially capable, he/she reaches to the pleasure of bliss.

So coming back to your question, “when does the soul enter the body ?”, there is no single point in time. Further, it is not the soul that enters the body, but the body that enters the soul ! And this journey is continuous, and may even span several life-times, according to Buddhism or Hinduism.

So I don’t know if you should use the word “soul” when talking of “Atman” or “self”. It gets very confusing because the word soul has several connotations : that it has a fixed locus in space and time, that it has a fixed point of origin / creation etc… On the other hand, “Atman” has no locus in space and time, and it is perennial, with no beginning and no end. It is essentially of the same nature as Brahman.

#40

This is really tricky, Only Guru can answer this questions.

I literally get puzzled when my Guru Unity gave lectures on this topic.