Whos fault

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

The truth is there is suffering and the other truth is there are ways via which one can end suffering. I have compassion for people who suffer, but not sympathy for people who choose to continue suffering and not look for ways to end it.

The “our brains are not wired the same, we have a unique chemistry and personality” is a bogus explanation given by people suffering from victim mentalities. The truth is your brain, chemisty and personality is not fixed and changes. You have the power to do that through changing your diet, lifestyle, habits and thinking patterns. The diet is a big one because your entire body is biochemical and it is made up of the food you eat. A change in diet makes a remarkable change to function(for the better) of the body. This is the tried and tested wisdom of Ayurveda.

I know of many people who are are depressed, suffering from abuse and mental illness come out of it. I have also seen, because I had conversations with these people, how many of them begin to define themselves by their illness and as soon as they do that the illness becomes them and they actually want to keep that going.

#22

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33330]You are right about me if I am convinced I am right I will stop at nothing but to completely and utterly demonstrate though evidence, through argument that I am right. I told you nobody can beat me in logic.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a girlfriend? Do you argue her into the ground if she doesn’t agree with you? Or any of your family for that matter?.. I’m not trying to pry into your life or be rude, but being humble is so important when relating with others, and crucial for our own emotional health and happiness. I’ve seen people in terrible relationships, because of people who would rather be right all the time, rather then be in a happy healthy relationship. They’d rather try to win a fight and have there point heard, then just let go and get along.
You tell me you’ve studied Philosophy. Maybe you could look at Epicurus. He stressed the importance of our personal relationships, and it’s relation to our happiness. Listening to others point of views, and opinions is paramount in our interpersonal relationships. A lot of the time, trying to be ‘right’ all the time is detrimental to our own happiness. If you like logic, why don’t you adopt this logic?

#23

Yogiadam,

If something is true it is true. It does not matter whether you like it or not. I only say something that I am convinced about. I have a very stong mind, and this may rile people up the wrong way, but that’s their problem and not mine.

If there were not people like me in the world we’d still be believing in flat earth today :smiley:

#24

While you have had conversations with these people, I have actually worked with these people. I am also a Social Worker. Contrary to what you believe people are not the same. Each person does have a unique make up. (DNA. It’s not all the same is it?) It’s just not that easy. Again I go the strength. Not all humans are strong. And if you are not strong the only way to truly overcome being a victim, as you say, is to have someone believe in you and help guide you.

The world is not black and white. It’s mostly grey. As a yogi, I would have thought you would show more compassion and insight into the whole issue being discussed. How many people have you helped through their suffering?

#25

I admire your work. Yes, there should be people to believe in them and guide them, but guide them out of their suffering, not to make them accept their suffering.

There is no essential quality in the body, even the DNA changes. A person is made up of several changing characteristics physiological, psychological and social.

I am not a support worker or social worker so I do not do your job. However, I have helped many people in indirect ways, who become inspired by my confidence, courage and honesty and often come up to me and tell me how much I changed them. I don’t even have to try to help them. I just live by example and people come to me.

#26

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;33338]While you have had conversations with these people, I have actually worked with these people. I am also a Social Worker. Contrary to what you believe people are not the same. Each person does have a unique make up. (DNA. It’s not all the same is it?) It’s just not that easy. Again I go the strength. Not all humans are strong. And if you are not strong the only way to truly overcome being a victim, as you say, is to have someone believe in you and help guide you.

The world is not black and white. It’s mostly grey. As a yogi, I would have thought you would show more compassion and insight into the whole issue being discussed. How many people have you helped through their suffering?[/QUOTE]

We share very similar opinions Lotus Girl, probably because I too work with people suffering from Mental Health Illnesses. Surya’s posts on this thread, I must admit, has upset me. But he has upset many people on this forum so I would not try to prove him wrong as that is exactly what he thrives on…

#27

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33337]If something is true it is true.[/QUOTE]

I’m beginning to doubt that you have ever actually studied philosophy, otherwise you’d be aware that truth cannot be know ultimately. There is only interpretation.

#28

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33341]I’m beginning to doubt that you have ever actually studied philosophy, otherwise you’d be aware that truth cannot be know ultimately. There is only interpretation.[/QUOTE]

That is postmodern philosophy. It is also known as a relativism. This is only one philosophical position. Others are very straight and narrow. If you talk to a positivist you will be even more frustrated, because they assert things categorically. Come up think of it you recently made a positivist statement yourself, “the brain is the cause of thoughts, memories”

You should be the last person bringing this up :wink:

#29

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33337]I have a very stong mind, and this may rile people up the wrong way, but that’s their problem and not mine[/QUOTE]

I was also trying to illustrate how having such a stubborn mind can be your problem. At the end of the day, when you rile people up in the real world, your the only one who suffers. Come on, you should know this, Mr Philosopher!

#30

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33343]I was also trying to illustrate how having such a stubborn mind can be your problem. At the end of the day, when you rile people up in the real world, your the only one who suffers. Come on, you should know this, Mr Philosopher![/QUOTE]

That would only be a problem if I gave a care what others thought. I am my own man and live my own example. Do you think Galileo or Darwin cared about what others thought?

#31

[QUOTE=omamana;33340]Surya’s posts on this thread, I must admit, has upset me. But he has upset many people on this forum so I would not try to prove him wrong as that is exactly what he thrives on…[/QUOTE]

This should cheer everyone up

Originally Posted by Surya Deva
"you cannot beat me. I am a very powerful Jnana yogi(intellectual yogi) and have mastered philosophy, or very close to mastering it."

I laugh every time I read this, it’s comedy gold! I’m thinking of having printed on a T-shirt.

#32

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33344]Darwin cared about what others thought?[/QUOTE]

Darwin was a very caring man who grappled with his discoveries. He was a former Christian, and his wife stayed a Christian. He was a caring father, a wonderful human being, and the greatest scientist that has ever lived.

#33

Yeah, but the point is he did not care about what the world thought about his discoveries. He stood by his discoveries to this deathbed and never compromised on them.

Face it if there were not people like me who go against the grain in the world then we’d still be in the stone age. Remember what Jesus said, “I have come with the sword” Were are not here to be nice to people and their ways. We are here to know the truth about us, the world and our relationship with it.

#34

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33350]Face it if there were not people like me who go against the grain in the world then we’d still be in the stone age. Remember what Jesus said, “I have come with the sword” Were are not here to be nice to people and their ways. We are here to know the truth about us, the world and our relationship with it.[/QUOTE]

OK, thanks for getting us out of the stone age Jesus.

#35

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33352]OK, thanks for getting us out of the stone age Jesus.[/QUOTE]

There is a solution, however, for I always respect people wishes. Simply put in your post, “I do not want my views/opinions challenged” If you want to be very specific give a list of the views/opinions not allowed. I will gladly respect your wishes :wink:

#36

Jesus also said “humility is the key to the kingdom of God” We are free to pick and choose any quotes we wish.
Brother Neil

#37

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;33354]Jesus also said “humility is the key to the kingdom of God” We are free to pick and choose any quotes we wish.
Brother Neil[/QUOTE]

Surya would probably tell you that he doesn’t need humility, because he already resides in the kingdom of god :D:D:D

#38

Truth does not need humility for it is the truth. It will always be the truth, whether it is humble or not.

I think humility is just another one of those human myths born out of humans who are not assertive enough.

In fact can somebody define humility for me. I want to make sure we are sharing the same definition.

#39

This is for Surya Deva- If believing that truth is conditional on the situation is relativism, what are you? An absolutist? An absolutist is like organized religion. Relativism is like Buddhism. When you say that you know the truth and it is absolute, you elevate yourself above the rest of humankind. You then make yourself more important than others because you know the truth. That is ego and in yoga, there is no room.

#40

To dear Lotusgirl. Being absolutist may share characteristics with an organized religiion, but it is not the same thing and you should appreciate this difference. A philosophical position is based on the evidence one accepts, it is not based on the beliefs one accepts. Materialism only accepts perception primarily and hence why it accepts only what is empirical to be true. Idealism accepts rationalism primarily and hence why it accepts intuition and logic. Modern science only accepts what can be demonstrated with the scientific method and hence why it accepts everything demonstrated and tested with it to be true. None of these positions are relativist.

You are also wrong about Buddhism being relativist. There are several different schools of Buddhism but lets look at the main orthodox school: 1) All is void 2) there is no self and 3) everything is suffering. This is not relativist at all.

The only school of philosophy in the Eastern spiritual tradition which is relativist is Jainism. However, even theirs is a form of conditional relativism. There are still such things as truths in conditional statements.

There is place for ego in Yoga by the way. The word ego simply means “self” And the Self is at the very core of Yoga. I think what you meant to say there was no place for the false ego in Yoga.