Cause I’m going incognito aTm. Now I will be green. (changes it)
You see Fred I didn’t get ‘the message’ from the Op.
I got hate, bigotry, absolutes, and dissension. Which is pretty adharma if your asking me.
[QUOTE=The Scales;61394]Cause I’m going incognito aTm. Now I will be green. (changes it)
You see Fred I didn’t get ‘the message’ from the Op.
I got hate, bigotry, absolutes, and dissension. Which is pretty adharma if your asking me.[/QUOTE]
Really? I never knew such a feature existed on these forums.
Or do you mean incognito as in “Google Incognito?”. (Check it out, its a good feature in Google Chrome).
There was obviously anger, resentment, and frustration in there. I can understand all of these considering the cultural subjugation we Hindus are undergoing? Hate? Definitely, directed at the bigoted and racist pseudo-intellectuals.
Absolutes? Perhaps, but at least he isn’t being politically correct.
Dissension? What do you mean?
TTA says the truth. He may not say it in the nicest way but there it is:
Hindus need to play an active role in their culture as it pertains to media and academia.
I believe that truth to be subjective. Ask an eskimo and he might say HINDWHO?
If we truly wanted to stop spreading ignorance then we would all just all shut up. But that may be pretty unlikely.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;61392]Sometimes, we should not let others live they way they want to. We should not let influential bigots and racists express themselves and spread their vitriol. We should not let Christian missionaries spread their propaganda and destroy other people’s cultures.[/QUOTE]
Whats good for the goose isn’t good for the gander?
I thought it’d be funny to Google an Indian university and link to a class on Christianity being taught by an Indian.
Alas, I couldn’t find one.
Touche’
You all sure do like your engineering, science, and law classes though.
I believe that truth to be subjective. Ask an eskimo and he might say HINDWHO?
Just like what we consider Dharma and Adharma, no?
The Inuit people have a beautiful culture…
If we truly wanted to stop spreading ignorance then we would all just all shut up. But that may be pretty unlikely.
Exactly. But it doesn’t happen. Thats why you protest and campaign for reform.
Whats good for the goose isn’t good for the gander?
ARGH, I didn’t grow up here, I don’t even know what half of these idioms and aphorisms mean.
Google Search
Well, it apparently means “What’s good for him isn’t good for her.”
But you obviously extrapolated that to encompass this particular context.
Regardless, I must respectfully disagree with you.
Just like what we consider Dharma and Adharma, no?
Well played young sir.
but . . . .
Exactly. But it doesn’t happen. Thats why you protest and campaign for reform.
and you may do so without hate and violence.
Well, it apparently means “What’s good for him isn’t good for her.”
But you obviously extrapolated that to encompass this particular context.
Regardless, I must respectfully disagree with you.
I extrapolated on [I]your[/I] comment above me tidy quote. The original saying goes something like this “whats good for the goose is good for the gander.”
[QUOTE=David;61399]I thought it’d be funny to Google an Indian university and link to a class on Christianity being taught by an Indian.
Alas, I couldn’t find one.
Touche’
You all sure do like your engineering, science, and law classes though.[/QUOTE]
There should be a lot. Although Christians miserably failed in converting all of India, Christian Indians do exist (courtesy of Christian genocides, forced conversions, and propaganda). In fact, some Indian universities are named after Christians, such as St. Francis Xavier the brute who ordered the Goa Inquisition, and are staffed almost completely by Christians.
YES! Finally SOMEONE understands. Math and Science are SUPREME!!!
Just look at them! Aren’t they gorgeous!!!
Math is power!!! Science is power!!! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!
On a bit of a quest for power, are we?
[QUOTE=The Scales;61402]Well Played young sir.[/QUOTE]
MUHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
You should know by now that you can never trust any link I post!!!
My signature is safe though.
[QUOTE=David;61404]On a bit of a quest for power, are we?[/QUOTE]
Meh. I don’t find myself overly ambitious these days. I just want to raise my own food, raise a family, have good friends, and enjoy life. But hey… more power to you.
[QUOTE=David;61407]Meh. I don’t find myself overly ambitious these days. I just want to raise my own food, raise a family, have good friends, and enjoy life. But hey… more power to you.[/QUOTE]
[U][B]I am dissapoint.[/B][/U]
(To be read in Darth Sion’s voice) Jedi, you were presented the opportunity to obtain uninmaginable power…the power that fools cannot dream of, the power that Sith Lords CRAVE for. You held the power to heal this broken galaxy, to right wrongs…but you refused to even acknowledge it. You are weak, like all the Jedi were…that is why you are the last Jedi in this pitiful galaxy and that is why you cannot pass. I, and ONLY I, am worthy of the presence of Darth Surya…so now…you MUST DIE!!!
Although it is possible for an outsider to have superficial knowledge of another culture, it is never as good as that of someone who is part of that culture. An illiterate farmer in India knows far more about Hindu culture than the likes of Wendy Doniger, Witzel, and the scores of others who are self-proclaimed ‘scholars’ of Hinduism. This etic and emic perspective is something that is vital to learning AUTHENTIC information about another people, culture, religion, and even country. The natives’ experience of being IN that culture far supersedes the loftiest prose written by an outsider. Think of it like this: a ‘scholar’ can describe the beauty of an apple using mathematics (its shape), its artistry (color, texture etc.), and its history; however, a person who actually eats the apple EXPERIENCES it and is thus more qualified to teach about it.
And people may practice ‘yoga’ but that term is highly misleading these days as Hatha Yoga nowhere nearly encapsulates what Yoga actually is. It is but a limb. Someone who is a master of Hatha Yoga may teach Hatha Yoga; that is perfectly fine. However, we have so-called instructors of Yoga who know next to nothing about Yogic philosophy, India, or Hinduism, pontificate on them as if they are an authority. That is what most Hindus like myself are against.
You are right in saying that “Yoga does not belong to India”. However, we need to make a distinction. Yogic PRACTICE does not ‘belong’ to India. However, the discourse on it, the philosophy, the theory of Yoga are undoubtedly Indian in origin, substance, and flavor. The discourse on Yoga, its history, its relation to Indic traditions must be exemplified by any Yoga instructor. You very well know that is not the case outside of India. Case in point, there was some Saudi-Arabian woman who traveled to Kerala (a communist state in southern India) to learn Yoga from some gurus there. She went back to Saudi-Arabia and proclaimed that Yoga is a “pre-Buddhistic” practice and has nothing to do with Hinduism. Such betrayal and temerity must not go unchecked. Would you say she shouldn’t be corrected and reprimanded immediately?
What you say with regards to ‘Yoga not being owned’ by anyone is philosophically true, however, the same can be said about this earth and the land. The Native Americans felt the same way that nobody “owns” this land yet look what happened to them! The invaders could not understand such a lofty principle and still don’t; land ownership and propriety is fundamental to existence nowadays. Likewise, if Hindus keep saying Yoga is not Hindu, which is a blatant falsity, we will end up with nonsense like Christian and Jewish Yoga. Hindus must be assertive with regards to their cultural developments and history of their nation. That is my point.
Even today, when someone who is really keen on learning authentic Yoga, they go to India. When someone wants to learn authentic Hinduism, they must learn it from Hindus. In western universities, Indian/Hindu studies departments are overwhelmingly staffed by non-Indians and non-Hindus. What I find strange is that many westerners are concerned about Hindus wanting to have control of the discourse that concerns them, their history, and their philosophy.
Can you imagine a member of the Black Panther Party teaching American history? They might give “a perspective” on US history but that is it; a perspective. In no way does it encapsulate all of US history and it shouldn’t. In the case of Hindu studies, that is exactly what is going on. Same thing with Yoga. If we have these unqualified people (non-Hindus) teaching Indian philosophy and religion, there is bound to be a lot of misinformation disseminated. Thankfully, it took Hindu Americans only one generation to realize the urgency of this matter and a lot of work is being done in this regard.
Agree with you regarding Abrahamic philosophies but the fact of the matter, as I’ve already stated, is that the respective followers of those religions control the discourse on their religion. They will never let an ‘outsider’ or etic perspective control the discourse. The same must be applied to Hinduism studies.
This, unfortunately, is not true. For someone to have “sound knowledge” of the Vedas, they need adhIkArA (spiritual and scriptural authority). A non-Indian/non-Hindu will never have that. An experience of unity consciousness does not elevate one to the level of guru. There have been umpteen examples of people from all backgrounds getting such experiences (Fritjof Capra is a famous one - The Tao of Physics) however they do not have the necessary foundation for becoming a guru. Mohammad was supposed to have experienced unity consciousness in some cave in Arabia. Yet, he was not capable of understanding the experience and purpose. His ramblings have been a cause of great misery to mankind. The vessel that receives the knowledge, and transmits it, is very important.
Bookish knowledge of the Vedas will lead to a very superficial understanding and that has what has exactly happened with western Indologists who have read the translated commentaries and Vedas. A true guru has to have the adhIkArA, background, and proper understanding of the Supreme Knowledge before claiming to be a “teacher”.
Long story short, a Vedic seer, will most definitely always be an Indian Hindu.
You cannot compare bookish knowledge to EXPERIENCE. The latter encapsulates Vaidika Dharma. Yes, someone could read Amar Chitra Katha (children’s comics on Indian mythology) and claim to “understand” it but that would defeat the purpose. Such an understanding is very shallow and does not go beyond what is apparent. When one is in a gurukulA learning under the tutelage of a master, the guru-chela (master-disciple) relationship itself will bring about knowledge; not all through books and reading. The ‘shabda pramana’ (silent contemplation) is the quintessential teaching of the UpaniSad!
If you talk about superficial knowledge, like building computers, academia, etc. etc., yes, background, culture, nationality only matter slightly. However, with Vedic knowledge, lineage and adhikArA are vital. This will not make sense if people think we are born only once. Through lifetimes of penance, learning, and perseverance, we choose where and to whom we are born. You must have heard of Jada-Bharata (Bharat Rishi - a sage in ancient India) who after being attached to a fawn, is born as a deer next to an ASram next to Vedic pundits who chant SlOkAs so that he can be in the vicinity of such knowledge. He actually attains enlightenment in the form of a deer!
[QUOTE=High Wolf;61384]Not all who are Western are as shallow as you think. So the point is, it is not good to make a hasty judgement with ideologically-driven sentiments. Ask yourself: what if you die tomorrow and immediately reincarnate at the heart of a Western culture, in America?
We need to start building more bridges as human race, or else our doom shall be decided soon enough.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you there completely. I do tend to come across very rudely at times and I’m working on changing that but sometimes, emotion, and my ego, get the better of me! 
Well, all I can say is I am immensely proud to be born as an Indian, a Hindu, and a Brahmin. It just pains me deeply to see some people, predominantly in the west, denigrate India, Indians, and Hinduism/Hindus. I must use this lifetime, a short time between birth and death, to learn more about myself and in the process more about Sanatana Dharma itself. Let us indeed build bridges and have mutual respect.
[QUOTE=David;61399]I thought it’d be funny to Google an Indian university and link to a class on Christianity being taught by an Indian.
Alas, I couldn’t find one.
Touche’
You all sure do like your engineering, science, and law classes though.[/QUOTE]
LOL… as a Physics major, I agree with you.
As Russell Peters said, “I saw a funny thing today. I saw a white guy driving a cab! I mean…who does he think he is? He comes here, takes our job!” hahahhahahahhahahah
[U][B]Battle begins[/B][/U]
Darth Nietzsche: Shoots Force Lightning at David Kenobi.
David Kenobi: Deflects Force Lightning with flick of his arm.
Darth Nietzsche: Force Jumps towards David Kenobi and begins to battle him.
Darth Nietzsche: Force Jumps away and casts Death Field, a life draining power. ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE
David Kenobi: ARRRGGGHHH!!! David Kenobi loses 500 HP!
Darth Nietzsche: Muahhahahaha!!! You can never win Jedi! You attacks are pitiful!
David Kenobi: *While Darth Nietzsche is propounding his soliloquy, David levitates a massive structural beam and sends it crashing into the Sith Lord.
David Kenobi: "Only Sith deal in absolutes!“
Darth Nietzsche: “RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!” Activates Force Fury
Darth Nietzsche: Sends shock-waves of lightning coursing through the ground, causing David to Force jump to safety in fright.
Darth Nietzsche: Hurls massive objects at David Kenobi.
David Kenobi: Dodges the objects heroically, while taking care to redirect them into key structural links!
Darth Nietzsche: Witness my true power!!! You cannot stop me!!
Darth Nietzsche: Hears structural groans Walls cascade around him
David Kenobi: “Only a Sith deals in absolutes…” *Skillfully, but with a gait that can only be induced by exhaustion, he vaults into an opening and escapes the collapsing building.”
Is this the end of Darth Nietzsche? Has Light finally triumphed over Dark? Or has David Kenobi underestimated the true power of the Dark Side?
To be Continued…
[QUOTE=The Scales;61394]
You see Fred I didn’t get ‘the message’ from the Op.
I got hate, bigotry, absolutes, and dissension. [/QUOTE]
Very lucidly proves my point.
Any message is only as good as the vessel that receives it!
[QUOTE=The Scales;61402]Well played young sir.
but . . . .
and you may do so without hate and violence.
I extrapolated on [I]your[/I] comment above me tidy quote. The original saying goes something like this “whats good for the goose is good for the gander.”[/QUOTE]
Indeed.
Indeed.
Really? Meh, you know how these maxims change over time…
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61413]LOL… as a Physics major, I agree with you.
As Russell Peters said, “I saw a funny thing today. I saw a white guy driving a cab! I mean…who does he think he is? He comes here, takes our job!” hahahhahahahhahahah[/QUOTE]
OMG HAKZORZ, I LOVE RUSSEL PETERS!
Have you seen the one about him going into a Chinese-run mall and trying to buy a bag?
AND DUUUUDE!!! YOU’RE A PHYSICS MAJOR!?!?!?!?!?
Can you PLEASE teach me [B]Magnetic Flux[/B]? I didn’t understand it when I was studying that topic by myself…
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61380]Surya,
Although there are exceptions of non-Indian Hindus around the world, they NEVER make the rule. [/quote]
Indeed, it is true most of the worlds Hindus are in India, but it is not necessary to be in India to be Hindu. I was born and bought up in the UK in a Sikh family, and yet I am Hindu. There have been many famous non-Indian Hindus:
Chantal Boulanger - French anthropologist who wrote widely on Tamil culture[1].
Russell Brand - British actor and comedian.[2]
Job Charnock - British trade agent who has been controversially described as the founder of Calcutta[3]
Ilan Chester - Venezuelan singer, keyboardist, arranger and composer[4]
Michael Cremo - American creationist, author, and editor[7]
Bhagavan Das (born Kermit Michael Riggs) - Western Yogi and former born again Christian [8]
Roy Eugene Davis - American Kriya Yoga teacher[9]
Krishna Dharma - British author and convert to Gaudiya Vaishnavism under ISKCON[10]
David Frawley - author on Hinduism, Yoga and Ayurveda[11]
Elizabeth Gilbert author of Eat Pray Love [12]
George Harrison - popular English musician, best known as a member of The Beatles who died chanting the Hare Krishna Mahamantra in the company of monks from ISKCON.[13] He is also known for donating Bhaktivedanta Manor, a Hindu temple to the Hare Krishna community in Britain.[14]
Christopher Isherwood - Anglo-American novelist[16]
Jomol - Malayali actress [17]
Swami Kriyananda (born J. Donald Walters) - direct disciple of the yogi Paramahansa Yogananda
Timothy Leary - Harvard professor and American writer and psychologist[18]
Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami - one of the eleven senior Americans selected to become an initiating guru in ISKCON.[19][20][21][22][23][24]
Sister Nivedita (born Margaret Elizabeth Noble) - Anglo-Irish social worker, author, and teacher[25]
Leelawathy Ramanathan - Australia-born Hindu writer and activist. Converted upon marrying Ponnambalam Ramanathan[26]
John Levy - British philosopher who translated books on Advaita Vedanta[27]
Joseph Ritson - English antiquarian and traveller[28]
Julia Roberts - American Actress, star of Eat Pray Love.[29]
Han Snel - Dutch painter of Bali[30]
Satyananda Stokes - Famous English farmer in Himachal Pradesh[31]
Bhakti Tirtha Swami (born John E. Favors) - American Hindu leader and disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada[32]
Romapada Swami - Preacher of ISKCON[33].
Kenneth R. Valpey - Gaudiya Vaishnava Theologian who studied at Oxford University, St. Cross College[34]
Richard L. Thompson - American mathematician, academic, creationist, and author [35]
Shaunaka Rishi Das (born Timothy Kiernan) - Director of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Krishna Das (born Jeffrey Kagel) - singer who performs Indian chants called kirtans
Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert)- syncretist, and follower of the Hindu deity Hanuman. Professor of psychology at Harvard University[55]
Hridayananda Goswami (born Howard J. Resnick) - American spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness[56]
Tamal Krishna Goswami (born Thomas G. Herzig) - governing body commissioner of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness
Radhanath_Swami (born Richard Slavin) - is a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru and a member of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), author of The Journey Home: Autobiography of an American Swami
Agehananda Bharati (born Leopold Fischer) - academic Sanskritist, a prolific author about religious subjects, and a Hindu monk in the Dasanami Sannyasi order[74]
Alain Dani?lou (convert to Shaivism) - French historian, intellectual, musicologist, and Indologist[75]
Ambarish Das (born Alfred Ford) - American businessman, great-grandson of Henry Ford, and a follower of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (the founder of ISKCON)[76][77]
Urmila Devi Dasi (born Edith E. Best)- senior female ISKCON leader and educator[78][79]
Geoffrey Giuliano, American biographer [80]
Nina Hagen (follower of Haidakhan Babaji) - German singer[81]
Aldous Huxley (disciple of Swami Prabhavananda) - English writer who emigrated to the United States, author of Brave New World[82]
Joe Don Looney (follower of Swami Muktananda)- football player[83]
J. Mascis - Lead vocalist, guitarist, and drummer for Dinosaur Jr.[84]
John McLaughlin (became a disciple of Sri Chinmoy) - jazz fusion guitar player[85]
Shaunaka Rishi Dasa (Irish convert and member of ISKCON)- founder of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies[86][87]
Lex Hixon (syncretist and disciple of Swami Nikhilananda) - poet, philosopher, spiritual practitioner and teacher[88]
Mathias Rust - German daredevil pilot[89]
J. D. Salinger - American author best known for The Catcher in the Rye[90]
Kelli Williams - American actress who played Lindsay Dole Donnell on the ABC legal drama The Practice.[91]
Ricky Williams - Miami Dolphins football player[92].
Crispian Mills - English rock singer named Krishna Kantha dasa. He wrote a foreword to a book by Bhaktivinoda Thakur titled Sri Siksastaka.[93]
Jeffrey Armstrong - Canadian Author, Speaker, Poet [94]
John Dobson (former atheist who became a believer in Vedanta)- astronomer and telescope designer[71][72
Other famous non-Indians who might as well have been Hindu: Erwin Schrodinger, the father of quantum physics; Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher; Emerson and T.S Elliot.
What this goes to show that one does not have to be born in India to be Hindu.
Hinduism is about accepting Hindu beliefs and practices(brahman, atman, dharma, karma, samsara, yoga) This is how I became Hindu. Then again I was already born in a dharmic tradition - but I had actually rejected that tradition and become atheist in later life.
Hinduism has never just been only for Indians. Some of the famous non-Indian hindus of the past include many Greek savants like the Neo-platonists, Apollonius. Even Pythagoras is strongly believed to have been Hindu.
Hinduism is santana dharma it is universal. I have no doubt in my mind that civilisations on other planets are also practicing it. This is because Hinduism is nothing more than spirituality raised to the level of a science. This is in short what Vedic dharma is all about:
- Know the fundamental and absolute reality that is underlying all by delving into your being
- Gain control of your senses and mind and enlighten your intellect
- Enoble yourself and enoble others by serving the world selflessly and doing good deeds - think nobe thoughts, speak noble things and do noble things
- Live in harmony with dharma
I completely disagree with the notion that India and Hinduism are separate. That is a nefarious idea put forth by many of these hippie scum who steal from Indian philosophy and then turn around and discard India. We must be very weary of such people.
India is called pUnyA bhUmI, the land where one’s karmA can be worked out and progress spiritually. India is the spiritual epicenter of the world. It is NOT a coincidence that so many hundreds of sages, rishis, and yOgIs were/are from India. The place is conducive to spiritual growth and learning. That is why any place outside India is called mleccha-deSa (land of barbarians).
In the ViSnU PurAnA, the land that is Bharat is described as the “crown that is the land of HimavAn (Himalayas) and the feet that are washed by ocean to the south (Kanyakumari)”. For thousands of years, India has been known as the land that was the subcontinent and of course included Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, and some eastern parts of modern day Iran.
We must not confuse the “modern map” of India with the India of the scriptures. By that note, many Pakistanis could claim the rishis of yore were “Pakistani” and not “Indian”.
Indeed, India and Hinduism cannot be separated. Every Hindu accepts India as the spiritual motherland. However, being born Indian does not make you Hindu by default. Likewise, being born non-Indian does not mean you cannot be Hindu.
Also, I agree with you that being “Indian” in the modern sense of the word is not a ‘requirement’ per se, but being predisposed towards introspection, contemplation, and compassion are. Those traits are readily found in eastern cultures and are hardly so in their western counterparts.
This is not true, introspection, contemplation and compassion can be found in the Western counterparts as well. These are not exclusive traits to the Indians. What you do not find in the West though is spirituality raised to the level of a science. The West had spirituality(gnosticism, sufism, wicca) but it never rose above mythology and mysticism, mainly because it was not allowed to by the Abrahamic orthodoxy. Hinduism is the only religion where spirituality has been developed to the level of a science.
Likewise, we Hindus, meaning Indian-Hindus, must be accepting of others but at the same time, know that India and Hinduism are inseparable and it is the Indian Hindus who will fight for both.
It’s Hindus who are fighting. One of the main bodies who are in the frontlines of the fight and publish a magazine on Hinduism, Hinduism today is by a monastic order of Western Hindus from the Shivaite order in Hawai. David Frawley is doing a lot for the Hindu cause.
Again Hinduism has nothing to do with Indian nationality. Yes, India and Hinduism are inseparable and this is why all Hindu regard India as the spiritual motherland. I am going to India myself to study Yoga authentically under the gurus. I am no less a Hindu than a Hindu born in India, even if I was born Sikh and in the UK. In fact in the UK people who were born Hindu come to me to learn about Hinduism.
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61411]I agree with you there completely. I do tend to come across very rudely at times and I’m working on changing that but sometimes, emotion, and my ego, get the better of me!
Well, all I can say is I am immensely proud to be born as an Indian, a Hindu, and a Brahmin. It just pains me deeply to see some people, predominantly in the west, denigrate India, Indians, and Hinduism/Hindus. I must use this lifetime, a short time between birth and death, to learn more about myself and in the process more about Sanatana Dharma itself. Let us indeed build bridges and have mutual respect.[/QUOTE]
I greatly respect that you’re able to take that step back and observe yourself AND be publicly honest about what you see.
It’s quite understandable that you’re angry at the actions of the west. Hell, I’m a citizen of the USA and I’M furious about what we’re doing and have done. I can’t imagine being on the receiving end of it. Maybe the rest of the world needs to come together and say, “No more” to us. I personally don’t know the solution.
What I do know is that lashing out in anger, hatred, or frustration will change nobody’s mind in the west. It’ll only fuel our unconsciousness.