[QUOTE=The Scales;61402]Well Played young sir.[/QUOTE]
MUHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
You should know by now that you can never trust any link I post!!!
My signature is safe though.
[QUOTE=David;61404]On a bit of a quest for power, are we?[/QUOTE]
Meh. I don’t find myself overly ambitious these days. I just want to raise my own food, raise a family, have good friends, and enjoy life. But hey… more power to you.
[QUOTE=David;61407]Meh. I don’t find myself overly ambitious these days. I just want to raise my own food, raise a family, have good friends, and enjoy life. But hey… more power to you.[/QUOTE]
[U][B]I am dissapoint.[/B][/U]
(To be read in Darth Sion’s voice) Jedi, you were presented the opportunity to obtain uninmaginable power…the power that fools cannot dream of, the power that Sith Lords CRAVE for. You held the power to heal this broken galaxy, to right wrongs…but you refused to even acknowledge it. You are weak, like all the Jedi were…that is why you are the last Jedi in this pitiful galaxy and that is why you cannot pass. I, and ONLY I, am worthy of the presence of Darth Surya…so now…you MUST DIE!!!
Although it is possible for an outsider to have superficial knowledge of another culture, it is never as good as that of someone who is part of that culture. An illiterate farmer in India knows far more about Hindu culture than the likes of Wendy Doniger, Witzel, and the scores of others who are self-proclaimed ‘scholars’ of Hinduism. This etic and emic perspective is something that is vital to learning AUTHENTIC information about another people, culture, religion, and even country. The natives’ experience of being IN that culture far supersedes the loftiest prose written by an outsider. Think of it like this: a ‘scholar’ can describe the beauty of an apple using mathematics (its shape), its artistry (color, texture etc.), and its history; however, a person who actually eats the apple EXPERIENCES it and is thus more qualified to teach about it.
And people may practice ‘yoga’ but that term is highly misleading these days as Hatha Yoga nowhere nearly encapsulates what Yoga actually is. It is but a limb. Someone who is a master of Hatha Yoga may teach Hatha Yoga; that is perfectly fine. However, we have so-called instructors of Yoga who know next to nothing about Yogic philosophy, India, or Hinduism, pontificate on them as if they are an authority. That is what most Hindus like myself are against.
You are right in saying that “Yoga does not belong to India”. However, we need to make a distinction. Yogic PRACTICE does not ‘belong’ to India. However, the discourse on it, the philosophy, the theory of Yoga are undoubtedly Indian in origin, substance, and flavor. The discourse on Yoga, its history, its relation to Indic traditions must be exemplified by any Yoga instructor. You very well know that is not the case outside of India. Case in point, there was some Saudi-Arabian woman who traveled to Kerala (a communist state in southern India) to learn Yoga from some gurus there. She went back to Saudi-Arabia and proclaimed that Yoga is a “pre-Buddhistic” practice and has nothing to do with Hinduism. Such betrayal and temerity must not go unchecked. Would you say she shouldn’t be corrected and reprimanded immediately?
What you say with regards to ‘Yoga not being owned’ by anyone is philosophically true, however, the same can be said about this earth and the land. The Native Americans felt the same way that nobody “owns” this land yet look what happened to them! The invaders could not understand such a lofty principle and still don’t; land ownership and propriety is fundamental to existence nowadays. Likewise, if Hindus keep saying Yoga is not Hindu, which is a blatant falsity, we will end up with nonsense like Christian and Jewish Yoga. Hindus must be assertive with regards to their cultural developments and history of their nation. That is my point.
Even today, when someone who is really keen on learning authentic Yoga, they go to India. When someone wants to learn authentic Hinduism, they must learn it from Hindus. In western universities, Indian/Hindu studies departments are overwhelmingly staffed by non-Indians and non-Hindus. What I find strange is that many westerners are concerned about Hindus wanting to have control of the discourse that concerns them, their history, and their philosophy.
Can you imagine a member of the Black Panther Party teaching American history? They might give “a perspective” on US history but that is it; a perspective. In no way does it encapsulate all of US history and it shouldn’t. In the case of Hindu studies, that is exactly what is going on. Same thing with Yoga. If we have these unqualified people (non-Hindus) teaching Indian philosophy and religion, there is bound to be a lot of misinformation disseminated. Thankfully, it took Hindu Americans only one generation to realize the urgency of this matter and a lot of work is being done in this regard.
Agree with you regarding Abrahamic philosophies but the fact of the matter, as I’ve already stated, is that the respective followers of those religions control the discourse on their religion. They will never let an ‘outsider’ or etic perspective control the discourse. The same must be applied to Hinduism studies.
This, unfortunately, is not true. For someone to have “sound knowledge” of the Vedas, they need adhIkArA (spiritual and scriptural authority). A non-Indian/non-Hindu will never have that. An experience of unity consciousness does not elevate one to the level of guru. There have been umpteen examples of people from all backgrounds getting such experiences (Fritjof Capra is a famous one - The Tao of Physics) however they do not have the necessary foundation for becoming a guru. Mohammad was supposed to have experienced unity consciousness in some cave in Arabia. Yet, he was not capable of understanding the experience and purpose. His ramblings have been a cause of great misery to mankind. The vessel that receives the knowledge, and transmits it, is very important.
Bookish knowledge of the Vedas will lead to a very superficial understanding and that has what has exactly happened with western Indologists who have read the translated commentaries and Vedas. A true guru has to have the adhIkArA, background, and proper understanding of the Supreme Knowledge before claiming to be a “teacher”.
Long story short, a Vedic seer, will most definitely always be an Indian Hindu.
You cannot compare bookish knowledge to EXPERIENCE. The latter encapsulates Vaidika Dharma. Yes, someone could read Amar Chitra Katha (children’s comics on Indian mythology) and claim to “understand” it but that would defeat the purpose. Such an understanding is very shallow and does not go beyond what is apparent. When one is in a gurukulA learning under the tutelage of a master, the guru-chela (master-disciple) relationship itself will bring about knowledge; not all through books and reading. The ‘shabda pramana’ (silent contemplation) is the quintessential teaching of the UpaniSad!
If you talk about superficial knowledge, like building computers, academia, etc. etc., yes, background, culture, nationality only matter slightly. However, with Vedic knowledge, lineage and adhikArA are vital. This will not make sense if people think we are born only once. Through lifetimes of penance, learning, and perseverance, we choose where and to whom we are born. You must have heard of Jada-Bharata (Bharat Rishi - a sage in ancient India) who after being attached to a fawn, is born as a deer next to an ASram next to Vedic pundits who chant SlOkAs so that he can be in the vicinity of such knowledge. He actually attains enlightenment in the form of a deer!
[QUOTE=High Wolf;61384]Not all who are Western are as shallow as you think. So the point is, it is not good to make a hasty judgement with ideologically-driven sentiments. Ask yourself: what if you die tomorrow and immediately reincarnate at the heart of a Western culture, in America?
We need to start building more bridges as human race, or else our doom shall be decided soon enough.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you there completely. I do tend to come across very rudely at times and I’m working on changing that but sometimes, emotion, and my ego, get the better of me! 
Well, all I can say is I am immensely proud to be born as an Indian, a Hindu, and a Brahmin. It just pains me deeply to see some people, predominantly in the west, denigrate India, Indians, and Hinduism/Hindus. I must use this lifetime, a short time between birth and death, to learn more about myself and in the process more about Sanatana Dharma itself. Let us indeed build bridges and have mutual respect.
[QUOTE=David;61399]I thought it’d be funny to Google an Indian university and link to a class on Christianity being taught by an Indian.
Alas, I couldn’t find one.
Touche’
You all sure do like your engineering, science, and law classes though.[/QUOTE]
LOL… as a Physics major, I agree with you.
As Russell Peters said, “I saw a funny thing today. I saw a white guy driving a cab! I mean…who does he think he is? He comes here, takes our job!” hahahhahahahhahahah
[U][B]Battle begins[/B][/U]
Darth Nietzsche: Shoots Force Lightning at David Kenobi.
David Kenobi: Deflects Force Lightning with flick of his arm.
Darth Nietzsche: Force Jumps towards David Kenobi and begins to battle him.
Darth Nietzsche: Force Jumps away and casts Death Field, a life draining power. ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE
David Kenobi: ARRRGGGHHH!!! David Kenobi loses 500 HP!
Darth Nietzsche: Muahhahahaha!!! You can never win Jedi! You attacks are pitiful!
David Kenobi: *While Darth Nietzsche is propounding his soliloquy, David levitates a massive structural beam and sends it crashing into the Sith Lord.
David Kenobi: "Only Sith deal in absolutes!“
Darth Nietzsche: “RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!” Activates Force Fury
Darth Nietzsche: Sends shock-waves of lightning coursing through the ground, causing David to Force jump to safety in fright.
Darth Nietzsche: Hurls massive objects at David Kenobi.
David Kenobi: Dodges the objects heroically, while taking care to redirect them into key structural links!
Darth Nietzsche: Witness my true power!!! You cannot stop me!!
Darth Nietzsche: Hears structural groans Walls cascade around him
David Kenobi: “Only a Sith deals in absolutes…” *Skillfully, but with a gait that can only be induced by exhaustion, he vaults into an opening and escapes the collapsing building.”
Is this the end of Darth Nietzsche? Has Light finally triumphed over Dark? Or has David Kenobi underestimated the true power of the Dark Side?
To be Continued…
[QUOTE=The Scales;61394]
You see Fred I didn’t get ‘the message’ from the Op.
I got hate, bigotry, absolutes, and dissension. [/QUOTE]
Very lucidly proves my point.
Any message is only as good as the vessel that receives it!
[QUOTE=The Scales;61402]Well played young sir.
but . . . .
and you may do so without hate and violence.
I extrapolated on [I]your[/I] comment above me tidy quote. The original saying goes something like this “whats good for the goose is good for the gander.”[/QUOTE]
Indeed.
Indeed.
Really? Meh, you know how these maxims change over time…
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61413]LOL… as a Physics major, I agree with you.
As Russell Peters said, “I saw a funny thing today. I saw a white guy driving a cab! I mean…who does he think he is? He comes here, takes our job!” hahahhahahahhahahah[/QUOTE]
OMG HAKZORZ, I LOVE RUSSEL PETERS!
Have you seen the one about him going into a Chinese-run mall and trying to buy a bag?
AND DUUUUDE!!! YOU’RE A PHYSICS MAJOR!?!?!?!?!?
Can you PLEASE teach me [B]Magnetic Flux[/B]? I didn’t understand it when I was studying that topic by myself…
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61380]Surya,
Although there are exceptions of non-Indian Hindus around the world, they NEVER make the rule. [/quote]
Indeed, it is true most of the worlds Hindus are in India, but it is not necessary to be in India to be Hindu. I was born and bought up in the UK in a Sikh family, and yet I am Hindu. There have been many famous non-Indian Hindus:
Chantal Boulanger - French anthropologist who wrote widely on Tamil culture[1].
Russell Brand - British actor and comedian.[2]
Job Charnock - British trade agent who has been controversially described as the founder of Calcutta[3]
Ilan Chester - Venezuelan singer, keyboardist, arranger and composer[4]
Michael Cremo - American creationist, author, and editor[7]
Bhagavan Das (born Kermit Michael Riggs) - Western Yogi and former born again Christian [8]
Roy Eugene Davis - American Kriya Yoga teacher[9]
Krishna Dharma - British author and convert to Gaudiya Vaishnavism under ISKCON[10]
David Frawley - author on Hinduism, Yoga and Ayurveda[11]
Elizabeth Gilbert author of Eat Pray Love [12]
George Harrison - popular English musician, best known as a member of The Beatles who died chanting the Hare Krishna Mahamantra in the company of monks from ISKCON.[13] He is also known for donating Bhaktivedanta Manor, a Hindu temple to the Hare Krishna community in Britain.[14]
Christopher Isherwood - Anglo-American novelist[16]
Jomol - Malayali actress [17]
Swami Kriyananda (born J. Donald Walters) - direct disciple of the yogi Paramahansa Yogananda
Timothy Leary - Harvard professor and American writer and psychologist[18]
Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami - one of the eleven senior Americans selected to become an initiating guru in ISKCON.[19][20][21][22][23][24]
Sister Nivedita (born Margaret Elizabeth Noble) - Anglo-Irish social worker, author, and teacher[25]
Leelawathy Ramanathan - Australia-born Hindu writer and activist. Converted upon marrying Ponnambalam Ramanathan[26]
John Levy - British philosopher who translated books on Advaita Vedanta[27]
Joseph Ritson - English antiquarian and traveller[28]
Julia Roberts - American Actress, star of Eat Pray Love.[29]
Han Snel - Dutch painter of Bali[30]
Satyananda Stokes - Famous English farmer in Himachal Pradesh[31]
Bhakti Tirtha Swami (born John E. Favors) - American Hindu leader and disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada[32]
Romapada Swami - Preacher of ISKCON[33].
Kenneth R. Valpey - Gaudiya Vaishnava Theologian who studied at Oxford University, St. Cross College[34]
Richard L. Thompson - American mathematician, academic, creationist, and author [35]
Shaunaka Rishi Das (born Timothy Kiernan) - Director of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Krishna Das (born Jeffrey Kagel) - singer who performs Indian chants called kirtans
Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert)- syncretist, and follower of the Hindu deity Hanuman. Professor of psychology at Harvard University[55]
Hridayananda Goswami (born Howard J. Resnick) - American spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness[56]
Tamal Krishna Goswami (born Thomas G. Herzig) - governing body commissioner of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness
Radhanath_Swami (born Richard Slavin) - is a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru and a member of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), author of The Journey Home: Autobiography of an American Swami
Agehananda Bharati (born Leopold Fischer) - academic Sanskritist, a prolific author about religious subjects, and a Hindu monk in the Dasanami Sannyasi order[74]
Alain Dani?lou (convert to Shaivism) - French historian, intellectual, musicologist, and Indologist[75]
Ambarish Das (born Alfred Ford) - American businessman, great-grandson of Henry Ford, and a follower of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (the founder of ISKCON)[76][77]
Urmila Devi Dasi (born Edith E. Best)- senior female ISKCON leader and educator[78][79]
Geoffrey Giuliano, American biographer [80]
Nina Hagen (follower of Haidakhan Babaji) - German singer[81]
Aldous Huxley (disciple of Swami Prabhavananda) - English writer who emigrated to the United States, author of Brave New World[82]
Joe Don Looney (follower of Swami Muktananda)- football player[83]
J. Mascis - Lead vocalist, guitarist, and drummer for Dinosaur Jr.[84]
John McLaughlin (became a disciple of Sri Chinmoy) - jazz fusion guitar player[85]
Shaunaka Rishi Dasa (Irish convert and member of ISKCON)- founder of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies[86][87]
Lex Hixon (syncretist and disciple of Swami Nikhilananda) - poet, philosopher, spiritual practitioner and teacher[88]
Mathias Rust - German daredevil pilot[89]
J. D. Salinger - American author best known for The Catcher in the Rye[90]
Kelli Williams - American actress who played Lindsay Dole Donnell on the ABC legal drama The Practice.[91]
Ricky Williams - Miami Dolphins football player[92].
Crispian Mills - English rock singer named Krishna Kantha dasa. He wrote a foreword to a book by Bhaktivinoda Thakur titled Sri Siksastaka.[93]
Jeffrey Armstrong - Canadian Author, Speaker, Poet [94]
John Dobson (former atheist who became a believer in Vedanta)- astronomer and telescope designer[71][72
Other famous non-Indians who might as well have been Hindu: Erwin Schrodinger, the father of quantum physics; Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher; Emerson and T.S Elliot.
What this goes to show that one does not have to be born in India to be Hindu.
Hinduism is about accepting Hindu beliefs and practices(brahman, atman, dharma, karma, samsara, yoga) This is how I became Hindu. Then again I was already born in a dharmic tradition - but I had actually rejected that tradition and become atheist in later life.
Hinduism has never just been only for Indians. Some of the famous non-Indian hindus of the past include many Greek savants like the Neo-platonists, Apollonius. Even Pythagoras is strongly believed to have been Hindu.
Hinduism is santana dharma it is universal. I have no doubt in my mind that civilisations on other planets are also practicing it. This is because Hinduism is nothing more than spirituality raised to the level of a science. This is in short what Vedic dharma is all about:
- Know the fundamental and absolute reality that is underlying all by delving into your being
- Gain control of your senses and mind and enlighten your intellect
- Enoble yourself and enoble others by serving the world selflessly and doing good deeds - think nobe thoughts, speak noble things and do noble things
- Live in harmony with dharma
I completely disagree with the notion that India and Hinduism are separate. That is a nefarious idea put forth by many of these hippie scum who steal from Indian philosophy and then turn around and discard India. We must be very weary of such people.
India is called pUnyA bhUmI, the land where one’s karmA can be worked out and progress spiritually. India is the spiritual epicenter of the world. It is NOT a coincidence that so many hundreds of sages, rishis, and yOgIs were/are from India. The place is conducive to spiritual growth and learning. That is why any place outside India is called mleccha-deSa (land of barbarians).
In the ViSnU PurAnA, the land that is Bharat is described as the “crown that is the land of HimavAn (Himalayas) and the feet that are washed by ocean to the south (Kanyakumari)”. For thousands of years, India has been known as the land that was the subcontinent and of course included Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, and some eastern parts of modern day Iran.
We must not confuse the “modern map” of India with the India of the scriptures. By that note, many Pakistanis could claim the rishis of yore were “Pakistani” and not “Indian”.
Indeed, India and Hinduism cannot be separated. Every Hindu accepts India as the spiritual motherland. However, being born Indian does not make you Hindu by default. Likewise, being born non-Indian does not mean you cannot be Hindu.
Also, I agree with you that being “Indian” in the modern sense of the word is not a ‘requirement’ per se, but being predisposed towards introspection, contemplation, and compassion are. Those traits are readily found in eastern cultures and are hardly so in their western counterparts.
This is not true, introspection, contemplation and compassion can be found in the Western counterparts as well. These are not exclusive traits to the Indians. What you do not find in the West though is spirituality raised to the level of a science. The West had spirituality(gnosticism, sufism, wicca) but it never rose above mythology and mysticism, mainly because it was not allowed to by the Abrahamic orthodoxy. Hinduism is the only religion where spirituality has been developed to the level of a science.
Likewise, we Hindus, meaning Indian-Hindus, must be accepting of others but at the same time, know that India and Hinduism are inseparable and it is the Indian Hindus who will fight for both.
It’s Hindus who are fighting. One of the main bodies who are in the frontlines of the fight and publish a magazine on Hinduism, Hinduism today is by a monastic order of Western Hindus from the Shivaite order in Hawai. David Frawley is doing a lot for the Hindu cause.
Again Hinduism has nothing to do with Indian nationality. Yes, India and Hinduism are inseparable and this is why all Hindu regard India as the spiritual motherland. I am going to India myself to study Yoga authentically under the gurus. I am no less a Hindu than a Hindu born in India, even if I was born Sikh and in the UK. In fact in the UK people who were born Hindu come to me to learn about Hinduism.
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61411]I agree with you there completely. I do tend to come across very rudely at times and I’m working on changing that but sometimes, emotion, and my ego, get the better of me!
Well, all I can say is I am immensely proud to be born as an Indian, a Hindu, and a Brahmin. It just pains me deeply to see some people, predominantly in the west, denigrate India, Indians, and Hinduism/Hindus. I must use this lifetime, a short time between birth and death, to learn more about myself and in the process more about Sanatana Dharma itself. Let us indeed build bridges and have mutual respect.[/QUOTE]
I greatly respect that you’re able to take that step back and observe yourself AND be publicly honest about what you see.
It’s quite understandable that you’re angry at the actions of the west. Hell, I’m a citizen of the USA and I’M furious about what we’re doing and have done. I can’t imagine being on the receiving end of it. Maybe the rest of the world needs to come together and say, “No more” to us. I personally don’t know the solution.
What I do know is that lashing out in anger, hatred, or frustration will change nobody’s mind in the west. It’ll only fuel our unconsciousness.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;61417]
AND DUUUUDE!!! YOU’RE A PHYSICS MAJOR!?!?!?!?!?
Can you PLEASE teach me [B]Magnetic Flux[/B]? I didn’t understand it when I was studying that topic by myself…[/QUOTE]
I am not a physics major, but I think you should learn the basics first before moving to advanced topics.
[QUOTE=The Scales;61394]Cause I’m going incognito aTm. Now I will be green. (changes it)
You see Fred I didn’t get ‘the message’ from the Op.
I got hate, bigotry, absolutes, and dissension. Which is pretty adharma if your asking me.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have to agree with you.
There is some truth in what he says, Hindu related subjects are often taught by people who are not very familiar with Hinduism. I’d also like to see yoga teachers having more background knowledge of Hinduism.
But I don’t think it serves any purpose to start calling every non Indian a mleccha and asura.
[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61415]Very lucidly proves my point.
Any message is only as good as the vessel that receives it! ;)[/QUOTE]
now you insult me
[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61434]I am not a physics major, but I think you should learn the basics first before moving to advanced topics.[/QUOTE]
I’ve already taken a college level Physics class; unfortunately, we did not get to Magnetism in time. That is why I went over the concept myself and am asking for help.
[QUOTE=David;61399]I thought it’d be funny to Google an Indian university and link to a class on Christianity being taught by an Indian.
Alas, I couldn’t find one.
Touche’
You all sure do like your engineering, science, and law classes though.[/QUOTE]
David, although you may not have found anything on your search I would bet my wife’s left pinky toe that there are many Indian professors teaching Christianity in universities in India. I grew up in Trinidad where Hindu is a predominant religion and culture and have first hand experience with this.
What I find distasteful, and what seems to be the kernel of contention, is the outrage and bitter feelings directed at the west for adopting what we find a beautiful part of Indian culture. For someone who professes to know and practice yoga to turn around and spit and hiss in the face of another for saying 'yes, this is a wonderful thing. May I partake?" seems counter to everything yogic, don’t you think?
I think you are failing to understand the mainpoint TTA is making, which is shared by all Hindus here: In Yoga and Hindu studies the Hindu voice is not represented, but rather it has been hijacked by non-Hindus. This has lead to a lot of misinformation being circulated about Hinduism. I will give an example
Hinduism records its Vedic civilisation as being 10,000 years old and its records record geneologies of kings going that far. It traces it origins to the Vedic risis, the enlightened sages who had the revelation of dharma in deep meditation and composed the Vedas - leading to the emergence of Vedic civilisation.
The non-Hindu version is: Hinduism is a combination of a 5000 year old culture of dark skinned Dravidians and 3000 years old culture of light skinned Aryans who came from Europe and conquered the dark skinned people. They were the Vedic people, but they were not enlightened sages, but savages who sacrificed humans and animals, worshipped violent gods and injested hallucinogens. They were also racist and imposed a caste system on the people.
Now, because Hindus are not represented in the academic field, there are no prizes for guessing which narrative gets taught in universities. It should also be not suprising by seeing the contrast how offensive this is to Hindus - effectively our most respected sages are being called savages and our 10,000 history is being flushed down the drain. It is what Frawley calls an obvious negation of Hindu civilisation. It is flagarant violence and racism.
Recently, many demeaning things have been written in the West about Hinduism from institutions like Harvard. Like Ramarkrishna was a pedophile and use to molest Vivekananda; The Gita is not a nice book and Krishna is deceitful and murderous man; the Hindu goddess is a goddess of war, evil and destruction.
This is why TTA is saying Yoga and Hinduism should not be taught by non-Hindus, but by Hindus so we get a fair and accurate representation. We cannot expect non-Hindus to give us a fair representation - and indeed we are not getting a fair representation. Effectively our religion is being demonized by mainly Christian scholars using an academic licence.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;61502]David, although you may not have found anything on your search I would bet my wife’s left pinky toe that there are many [U][B]Christian[/B][/U] Indian professors teaching Christianity in universities in India. I grew up in Trinidad where Hindu is a predominant religion and culture and have first hand experience with this.
What I find distasteful, and what seems to be the kernel of contention, is the outrage and bitter feelings directed at the west for adopting what we find a beautiful part of Indian culture. For someone who professes to know and practice yoga to turn around and spit and hiss in the face of another for saying 'yes, this is a wonderful thing. May I partake?" seems counter to everything yogic, don’t you think?[/QUOTE]
I fix’d that part of your post.
You would hardly find an Indian Hindu teaching about Christianity, unless if they have a degree in World Religions or something.
And you’re a filthy hypocrite.
[B][U]QUOTES BY FLEX PENGUIN ABOUT HINDUISM, INDIA, and INDIANS[/U][/B]
Face the facts: without western civilization and Christianity, India and the vast cultures if the world would still be wrangling on or near the stone age; living, fighting and dying under primitive tribalism.
This is a good start Surya. I’ll contact A R Rahman so he can compose an upbeat score. You and Friedrich practice your dance routines (who’s the stright guy?). Leave everything to me and I’ll have you guys prancing down the red carpet come Oscar season.
May have to change the old testament theme thing a bit. Violence is good, but can you find some sexy bits? Just try to resist casting any girls under 16. I’ve read about old Hindu men’s preference for marrying the young ones. Won’t go over well out here. Round up some lower caste filthy untouchable bastards to haul the equipment around on the cheap, and we’re set.
Are child brides still condemned by Hindu law to be outcasts because they are widows? That’s not very yogic.
Here’s the synopsis:
The Hero: Surya Deva, he’s a rich boy, a spoiled brat. His mother has died and his mean father has remarried a Chritian woman. Surya often sees his mother in his dreams where she begs him to find a nice girl and settle down. When we first meet our hero he’s surrounded by scantily clad girls prancing around him in their vast garden, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky. They sing:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Āpa kē li’ē hamārā pyāra pīlē bukhāra kī taraha jalatā hai.
(Our love for you
Burns like yellow fever!)
Our hero has charms to distract the girls while dancing - singing of his dream girl.
She comes to me
Like biscuit from the cupboard
So dry at first
But dunked in milk
So white to see
The Heroine: Fraulein Freidrich (funny name for a hindu girl, but we can make it work). She is the epitome of today’s generation. Fraulein Freidrich is poor outcast from a small village, but her jewelry is designed by Tanishq. Our heroine is having a bath in the local canal when our hero sees her. Their eyes meet, heartbeats stop, music happens, everyone around them begins the choreographed dancing rountine, the camera pans a wide panoramic shot of the scene, and love is in the air!
Fraulein Freidrich sings the main theme tune:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
My love for you
Lifts me up like a lever!
The Villain: (TBA) Surya’s father and his Christian wife, always spying on them from behind the doors or the trees. They sing as well:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
If you marry her
We will carve you with a cleaver!
Meanwhile, one lonely night our hero is alone, looking out into the Ganges, when his ghostly mother appears to him:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Fraulein Freidrich is too brown
Why don’t you leave her?
SD:
Mām̐, maiṁ apanā dūdha liyā hai,
lēkina ēka chōṭī sī mēka’apa
Fraulein Freidrich pārita kara sakatē haiṁ wih.
(Mother, I’ve had your milk, but wih a little makeup Fraulein Freidrich can pass.)
This goes on for a couple of hours, then our villains kidnap Fraulein Freidrich and take her to a palace that has a pool filled with pink acid. Much singing and dancing there. But, our hero’s best friend urges Surya Deva to rescue the Fraulein.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
If you let this happen
You will surely bereave her!
So, off they prance - the scantliy clad girls in tow - to rescue the Fraulein Freidrich from the clutches of the evil father and Christian stepmother. When the arrive, a great fight ensues with a cast of thousands. Carefully choreographed, the villains and heroes battle for another hour or so. Finally, Surya Deva rescues his Fraulein Freidrich, but as they sing to each other, they realize they cannot remain on Earth together, so they decide to jump into the pool of pink acid. As they sink, to their knees, then their waist, then their shoulders, the camera zooms into a close up and our lovers kiss passionately. The fighting stops and sun is blacked out by a swarm of parrots, their droppings falling on the villains.
But wait! It’s not over! Our lovers emerge in heaven, hand in hand (the scantily clad girls are there to meet them) and they are shown to a table full of great food by our hero’s mother. At the table are many guests, including Siva, Jesus, Allah, and the prophet MHd (have to careful there. Don’t want to make the same mistake as the Danes). Everyone is happy to see them, and the final song echoes with Rahman’s signature beat, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Now you have the chance
To show her your pecker!
(note: the preceding is a parody. Any resemblance to any person or culture, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Your humble narrator’s personal views are not in any way reflected here )
As for the other selected quote: subjugating large populations of your own culture and entrenching that in your religion is exactly the same as any inquisition, crusade or witch burning. In fact, it’s worse - it’s damned cowardly. Better, I suppose, to pick on the weakest members of your society. To place those of ‘darker’ skin tone below you and brand them as untouchable to be scorned and abused. To kill your female babies because they do not conform to master’s wishes and be male. To marry off your child brides because they are to powerless to say no.
This illustrates the weakness of the society. They didn’t go outside their own borders because they were afraid to. Had they faced the barbarian christians they would have had the shit kicked out of them sincerely, which eventually happened when the British sauntered in easily. And the barbarians would not have only focused on the weak. They would have taken aim squarely at the strong (that’s not saying much, if their behaviour is any judge), knocked them down a few pegs, and laid them on the doorsteps of the very castes they shat on (who would most probably have taken care of them).
[B][U]Conversation between SD and Idiot Penguin[/U][/B]
Another strawman. Read up on Indian history and it will become clear they went well beyond their borders. Here is a pointer: Read up on the Sri Vijaya empire to begin with. As for having the shit kicked out of them? Read on Alexandra’s attempted invasion of India and how he ran away when faced with the superior Indian army, not only that, he gave up his previously captured territory to India. The British invasion of India was no cake walk either, they had to fight wars with powerful Indian kings, and even lost some wars.
Yeah. Right. Lol
[B][U]More interesting tidbits about Indian culture from Flex Penguin:[/U][/B]
“I agree with you. India is a very backward and unenlightened society that subjugates her women and restricts their rights as given to men. Hopefully the new media will awaken and enlighten the people and they will demand freedom from male-dominated, antiquated doctrine. Fingers crossed.”
"Total and utter dribble. India was very proficient at abusing her citizens long before Hannibal came traipsing over the horizon. In fact, I would venture to bet that India taught the West all they know about citizen abuse (and I know you know what I’m talking about).
What I don’t understand is why ignorant Westerners like this guy would adopt something from a culture they consider inferior and demonic.
Thanks for reminding me Neitzsche. I had almost completely forgotten Flexpenguin had said those things.
Q, Flexpenguin, Yulaw and Indra Deva are basically peas of the same pod. The usual suspects who say very offensive and racist things. Then pretend they are innocent and it is us evil Hindus who are provoking them.
This really is a clash of civilisation. This is nothing short from an all out verbal war. The fact is there is a section of the Western population today who are extremely racist and Q et al are a manifestation of this. Do you remember the recent race scandal in the UK with Shilpa Shetty and Jade Goody? Hinduphobia is the new anti semiticism.