Why drugs or entheogens awake siddhis?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#16

I’ve heard an indian say that the ganga that the sadhus smoke is more of a culture thing and possibly just an addiction. I.e I have heard ,at least the way some of them smoke it ,that they gain little spiritual benefits and it is thus just recreational smoking. I’m not totally sure though. I know that Siva is the lord of ganga or whatever.

Open ,the doors of perception…

Many sadhus and Yoguis specially in India use drugs as a tool to enrich a meditation state easyer
I’ve never tried t it to enrich a meditation state. But then i don’t smoke it. Used to. I honestly cannot imagine using as an aid. Although i think it could be. I think though it could remove some blocks but also by the same token create new other ones.

I often do feel relaxed or “chilled” after smoking it But i think it’s psychologically addictive.When i gave it up after about ten years of buying it it took me a lonog time to come to the conclusion, again a long time ago before i got into smack whcih i kicked 5 years ago btw after discovering yoga(infact yoga took away the cravings after quitting a methodone script in jan06-taking up yoga and quiitting the script,i.e opiates(10yrs), co-incided at the same time).I eventually arrived at this conclusion that it was psychologically addictive for me at least. .

#17

[QUOTE=Deicide;33771]“The Siddhis are born of birth, [B]drugs[/B], mantras, penance or Smadhi. (IV-1)” (Yoga sutras)

I had a frind who told me that is possible awake siddhis or raise kundalini or samadhi using drugs like DMT, Lsd, Marihuana, Ayahuasca and others. You can get it almost instantaneously but is too dangerous if you are not ready.

So, why’s that?

Namaste.[/QUOTE]

aha… it is like force one’s way through the keyhole in to paradise…

#18

[QUOTE=CityMonk;35174]aha… it is like force one’s way through the keyhole in to paradise…[/QUOTE]

How is that?

#19

Hey OP, what part of Bolivia are you located in? Are you from Bolivia or just living there? I have family in Cochabamba!

#20

Im from Bolivia. I live in Cochabamba as well.

#21

“I had a frind who told me that is possible awake siddhis or raise kundalini or samadhi using drugs like DMT, Lsd, Marihuana, Ayahuasca and others.”

Deicide,

It is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. As far as Kundalini is concerned, it is not something that can be triggered through a mere drug, but specific processes of yoga. Even in practicing the methods, it is very rare that one actually manages it. So, if one manages to awaken Kundalini without even the techniques, then it is even more rare than the rare. But it is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. Because all that these siddhis are, are certain aspects of your own unconscious. Or in terms of the brain, higher potentialities of the brain which become active. Man does not use even near half of the potential capable of both his mind and brain. And in the unconscious and beyond the unconscious, there is a vast reservoir of energy which is simply lying there dormant. Everybody has them, but it is just a matter of whether they are triggered or untriggered.
There are various ways to trigger them. One of them is through certain drugs.

But it should be remembered that when a man like Patanjali spoke of awakening siddhis through drugs, he was not speaking to the ordinary person, but for the yogi. And the chances of the yogi awakening the siddhis through drugs are far higher than that of the average person. The yogi has already gone through certain physical and mental discipline, and his inner space is now absolutely receptive for it. Neither is Patanjali recommending that you become a frequent drug user. On the contrary, in the yogic sciences before any methods which involve drugs are ever prescribed, the yogi has to demonstrate that he has already attained to a certain amount of mindfulness and balance before one ever attempts such a thing. Otherwise, one is bound to become entangled in the senses while under the influence.

As far as samadhi is concerned, only very light levels of samadhi are capable. Because the very nature of drugs is to stimulate the mind rather than bring the mind to a stillness, it cannot take you to the deeper depths of samadhi where the activity of the mind has or almost become absolutely silent.

#22

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;49536]“I had a frind who told me that is possible awake siddhis or raise kundalini or samadhi using drugs like DMT, Lsd, Marihuana, Ayahuasca and others.”

Deicide,

It is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. As far as Kundalini is concerned, it is not something that can be triggered through a mere drug, but specific processes of yoga. Even in practicing the methods, it is very rare that one actually manages it. So, if one manages to awaken Kundalini without even the techniques, then it is even more rare than the rare. But it is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. Because all that these siddhis are, are certain aspects of your own unconscious. Or in terms of the brain, higher potentialities of the brain which become active. Man does not use even near half of the potential capable of both his mind and brain. And in the unconscious and beyond the unconscious, there is a vast reservoir of energy which is simply lying there dormant. Everybody has them, but it is just a matter of whether they are triggered or untriggered.
There are various ways to trigger them. One of them is through certain drugs.

But it should be remembered that when a man like Patanjali spoke of awakening siddhis through drugs, he was not speaking to the ordinary person, but for the yogi. And the chances of the yogi awakening the siddhis through drugs are far higher than that of the average person. The yogi has already gone through certain physical and mental discipline, and his inner space is now absolutely receptive for it. Neither is Patanjali recommending that you become a frequent drug user. On the contrary, in the yogic sciences before any methods which involve drugs are ever prescribed, the yogi has to demonstrate that he has already attained to a certain amount of mindfulness and balance before one ever attempts such a thing. Otherwise, one is bound to become entangled in the senses while under the influence.

As far as samadhi is concerned, only very light levels of samadhi are capable. Because the very nature of drugs is to stimulate the mind rather than bring the mind to a stillness, it cannot take you to the deeper depths of samadhi where the activity of the mind has or almost become absolutely silent.[/QUOTE]

Well said…

#23

You know this…how? It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed”, but only after certain requirements were met.

Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?

#24

Asuri,

“You know this…how?”

If you do a little bit of research, you can come to know that many traditions in the yogic sciences have used herbs and drugs as a means to enter into altered states, not unlike shamans.

“It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed””

During a few months when I was an ascetic, there was a period when I explored into this area after I had come to a certain depth of meditation.

“Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?”

Reading other peoples mind or being able to see or hear things from afar, are things which are largely of the intuition. Much of intuition is just certain information in the unconscious which becomes accessible to the conscious. That is why, for example, in dreams it is possible to have certain insight or foresight into things - it is just the unconscious communicating certain information to the conscious mind. And because the language of the unconscious is all of symbolism, it communicates through means of symbols.

Or for example, psychologists are familiar with it, that in certain states of hypnosis, people may possess physical strengthen which is otherwise absolutely outside of their abilities in their normal waking state. Or, just like in yoga, they have been able to hypnotize the mind into recalling “past lives” from the depths of the unconscious. To be able to remember so called past lives is one of the siddhis. Or, similarly, you can hypnotize a person to a point where his whole mind and body can become anesthesized, he becomes immune to pain. This is not different than the process which many yogis do in the East, where they can walk on burning hot coals for hours without feeling any pain. There is nothing magical about it, pain is controlled in certain areas of the brain - and if you can consciously control those areas, you can control pain. But the method for walking on burning hot coals is a certain technique involving awakening of the manipura chakra which awakens certain energies in the subtle body.

#25

There are some things I believe worth pointing out on the topic. I personally have made my position clear in other threads, specifically the one David mentions. But additional food for thought is often fruitful.

  1. The yoga sutras are only one of several texts which I’ll loosely refer to as “yoga philosophy” (though it is more a science than a philosophy but that is another topic entirely).

  2. The sutras are sutras not a full discourse and therefore while they are incredibly concise, well though out, and rational (as Samkhya is) they are also grossly susceptible to misinterpretation.

  3. The sutras themselves build upon each other and so the text is not meant as a reference book to flip open and read without context. Each sutra is reliant on that which has come before it.

  4. The context of what “drugs” might mean in the period of the Sutras may not be the same context in which the term is used currently.

  5. The reference in the sutra mentions five ways of acquiring siddhis however it should be noted that a) this is not a recommendation for drug use AND b) all of the siddis mentioned previously were the result of performing samyama - the last three stages of the eight-limbed path.

#26

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;49587]Asuri,

“You know this…how?”

If you do a little bit of research, you can come to know that many traditions in the yogic sciences have used herbs and drugs as a means to enter into altered states, not unlike shamans.

“It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed””

During a few months when I was an ascetic, there was a period when I explored into this area after I had come to a certain depth of meditation.

“Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?”

Reading other peoples mind or being able to see or hear things from afar, are things which are largely of the intuition. Much of intuition is just certain information in the unconscious which becomes accessible to the conscious. That is why, for example, in dreams it is possible to have certain insight or foresight into things - it is just the unconscious communicating certain information to the conscious mind. And because the language of the unconscious is all of symbolism, it communicates through means of symbols.

Regarding the above last sentence…,it is possible to clearly hear a distant event that is happening in real time through meditation. I know because I have experienced this myself…its holding it steady that requires skill, if you want to do this.

#27

[QUOTE=kareng;49550]Well said…[/QUOTE]

I agree. Amir has raised B.S. to the level of an art form.

#28

Asuri,

Then you need not be concerned.

#29

Quote:
Originally Posted by kareng View Post
Well said…
I agree. Amir has raised B.S. to the level of an art form.

Stop it Asuri.

#30

[QUOTE=Joanna63;49681]Stop it Asuri.[/QUOTE]

Why should I stop? People are being taken in by this guy, who is just making things up as he goes along. Take this for example:

Amir is claiming to have actual knowledge of a “certain technique” that can allow a yogi to walk on burning hot coals. If you make a claim to have such knowledge, then you should be able to demonstrate that the knowledge is correct by walking on burning hot coals. Can Amir walk on hot coals? My money is on “NO”. Conclusion: Amir is talking about stuff that he doesn’t know. You should be telling Amir to stop it. And by the way, I don’t think that walking on hot coals is mentioned in the yoga sutras anyway.

#31

Asuri,

Ok.

#32

I’ve said this before that there’s a legal axiom that goes like so ;that the the onus or burden of proof is and should be on the person wishing to disprove XYZ orwhatever they are wanting to disprove( the accuser). I don’t think one should feel the need to convince other folk someone else is talking B.S. or however one wants to put it.That is for one to judge and decide of they wish…If one is knowingly B.S’ ing then that sounds bit different.Do Sceptics not tend to shout the loudest ?

It’s good to make up your own mind and not be swayed by others or any majority.That sounds more like a rational perspective. Keeping an open mind is a good idea…Does’nt mean one needs to believe everyone or anything.People can make up their own mind…rather than jump to rash conclusions…entertain the benefit of the doubt.Neither affirm or deny.An open mind.

#33

Hi Asuri,

Originally Posted by [B]Amir[/B]
[I]But the method for walking on burning hot coals is a certain technique involving awakening of the manipura chakra which awakens certain energies in the subtle body.[/I]

Just a thought. But what if it could be possible that good control of body temperature can be acheived through a highly awakened manipura because that is where the furnace for your body, your digestive fire comes from largely.

Then there’s the soles of your feet i guess…Ouch!.

#34

@core789

In law, the burden of proof is on the accuser, because it’s impossible to prove a negative. For example, I couldn’t prove that Amir can’t walk on hot coals. Even if I never saw him do it, or nobody else ever saw him do it, that still doesn’t prove that he can’t do it. But Amir could prove that he can do it.

As for keeping an open mind and letting others decide for themselves, they’re going to do that anyway. But if nobody objects to what he says, people are more likely to go along with it, just because of herd mentality. To be silent is to indicate acquiescence, and I do not acquiesce.

#35

Hi Asuri

I suppose the premise contained within that statement is that it is possible. And anything is possible.

If somone said all kangaroos had six legs i would say that was an untruth.Supernatural abilites and siddhis such as wallking on coals seem possible.

I tend to see these claims like talk of siddhis as an ad for pulling folk into yoga and if and once they are attained they become a distraction if abused.So say you can develop these powers through superconsciousness but if you go around using them ,assuming they are possible to attain, then it could be spiritually depleting.Also saying you have them is ego talking and folk that might have them don’t sound like they wish to showcase it. They’re beyond that.I think asking for proof you may be unlikely to get it assuming it’s possible because my hunch is people will do their best to pretend they’re normal and so possibly hide them unless it’s for genuine good use.

I can see both sides.An open mind is both sceptical but neither writes something off either, or completely.If you suggest something is supernatural then it may by it’s very nature elicit scepticism or not.There are things that rational science can’t explain very well…but there are many things such as hypnosis,teleportation, or calirvoyance that are hard to prove without the usual physics.