Why drugs or entheogens awake siddhis?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

“I had a frind who told me that is possible awake siddhis or raise kundalini or samadhi using drugs like DMT, Lsd, Marihuana, Ayahuasca and others.”

Deicide,

It is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. As far as Kundalini is concerned, it is not something that can be triggered through a mere drug, but specific processes of yoga. Even in practicing the methods, it is very rare that one actually manages it. So, if one manages to awaken Kundalini without even the techniques, then it is even more rare than the rare. But it is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. Because all that these siddhis are, are certain aspects of your own unconscious. Or in terms of the brain, higher potentialities of the brain which become active. Man does not use even near half of the potential capable of both his mind and brain. And in the unconscious and beyond the unconscious, there is a vast reservoir of energy which is simply lying there dormant. Everybody has them, but it is just a matter of whether they are triggered or untriggered.
There are various ways to trigger them. One of them is through certain drugs.

But it should be remembered that when a man like Patanjali spoke of awakening siddhis through drugs, he was not speaking to the ordinary person, but for the yogi. And the chances of the yogi awakening the siddhis through drugs are far higher than that of the average person. The yogi has already gone through certain physical and mental discipline, and his inner space is now absolutely receptive for it. Neither is Patanjali recommending that you become a frequent drug user. On the contrary, in the yogic sciences before any methods which involve drugs are ever prescribed, the yogi has to demonstrate that he has already attained to a certain amount of mindfulness and balance before one ever attempts such a thing. Otherwise, one is bound to become entangled in the senses while under the influence.

As far as samadhi is concerned, only very light levels of samadhi are capable. Because the very nature of drugs is to stimulate the mind rather than bring the mind to a stillness, it cannot take you to the deeper depths of samadhi where the activity of the mind has or almost become absolutely silent.

#22

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;49536]“I had a frind who told me that is possible awake siddhis or raise kundalini or samadhi using drugs like DMT, Lsd, Marihuana, Ayahuasca and others.”

Deicide,

It is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. As far as Kundalini is concerned, it is not something that can be triggered through a mere drug, but specific processes of yoga. Even in practicing the methods, it is very rare that one actually manages it. So, if one manages to awaken Kundalini without even the techniques, then it is even more rare than the rare. But it is possible to awaken siddhis through drugs. Because all that these siddhis are, are certain aspects of your own unconscious. Or in terms of the brain, higher potentialities of the brain which become active. Man does not use even near half of the potential capable of both his mind and brain. And in the unconscious and beyond the unconscious, there is a vast reservoir of energy which is simply lying there dormant. Everybody has them, but it is just a matter of whether they are triggered or untriggered.
There are various ways to trigger them. One of them is through certain drugs.

But it should be remembered that when a man like Patanjali spoke of awakening siddhis through drugs, he was not speaking to the ordinary person, but for the yogi. And the chances of the yogi awakening the siddhis through drugs are far higher than that of the average person. The yogi has already gone through certain physical and mental discipline, and his inner space is now absolutely receptive for it. Neither is Patanjali recommending that you become a frequent drug user. On the contrary, in the yogic sciences before any methods which involve drugs are ever prescribed, the yogi has to demonstrate that he has already attained to a certain amount of mindfulness and balance before one ever attempts such a thing. Otherwise, one is bound to become entangled in the senses while under the influence.

As far as samadhi is concerned, only very light levels of samadhi are capable. Because the very nature of drugs is to stimulate the mind rather than bring the mind to a stillness, it cannot take you to the deeper depths of samadhi where the activity of the mind has or almost become absolutely silent.[/QUOTE]

Well said…

#23

You know this…how? It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed”, but only after certain requirements were met.

Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?

#24

Asuri,

“You know this…how?”

If you do a little bit of research, you can come to know that many traditions in the yogic sciences have used herbs and drugs as a means to enter into altered states, not unlike shamans.

“It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed””

During a few months when I was an ascetic, there was a period when I explored into this area after I had come to a certain depth of meditation.

“Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?”

Reading other peoples mind or being able to see or hear things from afar, are things which are largely of the intuition. Much of intuition is just certain information in the unconscious which becomes accessible to the conscious. That is why, for example, in dreams it is possible to have certain insight or foresight into things - it is just the unconscious communicating certain information to the conscious mind. And because the language of the unconscious is all of symbolism, it communicates through means of symbols.

Or for example, psychologists are familiar with it, that in certain states of hypnosis, people may possess physical strengthen which is otherwise absolutely outside of their abilities in their normal waking state. Or, just like in yoga, they have been able to hypnotize the mind into recalling “past lives” from the depths of the unconscious. To be able to remember so called past lives is one of the siddhis. Or, similarly, you can hypnotize a person to a point where his whole mind and body can become anesthesized, he becomes immune to pain. This is not different than the process which many yogis do in the East, where they can walk on burning hot coals for hours without feeling any pain. There is nothing magical about it, pain is controlled in certain areas of the brain - and if you can consciously control those areas, you can control pain. But the method for walking on burning hot coals is a certain technique involving awakening of the manipura chakra which awakens certain energies in the subtle body.

#25

There are some things I believe worth pointing out on the topic. I personally have made my position clear in other threads, specifically the one David mentions. But additional food for thought is often fruitful.

  1. The yoga sutras are only one of several texts which I’ll loosely refer to as “yoga philosophy” (though it is more a science than a philosophy but that is another topic entirely).

  2. The sutras are sutras not a full discourse and therefore while they are incredibly concise, well though out, and rational (as Samkhya is) they are also grossly susceptible to misinterpretation.

  3. The sutras themselves build upon each other and so the text is not meant as a reference book to flip open and read without context. Each sutra is reliant on that which has come before it.

  4. The context of what “drugs” might mean in the period of the Sutras may not be the same context in which the term is used currently.

  5. The reference in the sutra mentions five ways of acquiring siddhis however it should be noted that a) this is not a recommendation for drug use AND b) all of the siddis mentioned previously were the result of performing samyama - the last three stages of the eight-limbed path.

#26

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;49587]Asuri,

“You know this…how?”

If you do a little bit of research, you can come to know that many traditions in the yogic sciences have used herbs and drugs as a means to enter into altered states, not unlike shamans.

“It sounds like you are saying you have personal experience of traditional yoga practices in which drugs were “prescribed””

During a few months when I was an ascetic, there was a period when I explored into this area after I had come to a certain depth of meditation.

“Would you please tell us what are some of the siddhis you’re referring to that are aspects of the unconscious?”

Reading other peoples mind or being able to see or hear things from afar, are things which are largely of the intuition. Much of intuition is just certain information in the unconscious which becomes accessible to the conscious. That is why, for example, in dreams it is possible to have certain insight or foresight into things - it is just the unconscious communicating certain information to the conscious mind. And because the language of the unconscious is all of symbolism, it communicates through means of symbols.

Regarding the above last sentence…,it is possible to clearly hear a distant event that is happening in real time through meditation. I know because I have experienced this myself…its holding it steady that requires skill, if you want to do this.

#27

[QUOTE=kareng;49550]Well said…[/QUOTE]

I agree. Amir has raised B.S. to the level of an art form.

#28

Asuri,

Then you need not be concerned.

#29

Quote:
Originally Posted by kareng View Post
Well said…
I agree. Amir has raised B.S. to the level of an art form.

Stop it Asuri.

#30

[QUOTE=Joanna63;49681]Stop it Asuri.[/QUOTE]

Why should I stop? People are being taken in by this guy, who is just making things up as he goes along. Take this for example:

Amir is claiming to have actual knowledge of a “certain technique” that can allow a yogi to walk on burning hot coals. If you make a claim to have such knowledge, then you should be able to demonstrate that the knowledge is correct by walking on burning hot coals. Can Amir walk on hot coals? My money is on “NO”. Conclusion: Amir is talking about stuff that he doesn’t know. You should be telling Amir to stop it. And by the way, I don’t think that walking on hot coals is mentioned in the yoga sutras anyway.

#31

Asuri,

Ok.

#32

I’ve said this before that there’s a legal axiom that goes like so ;that the the onus or burden of proof is and should be on the person wishing to disprove XYZ orwhatever they are wanting to disprove( the accuser). I don’t think one should feel the need to convince other folk someone else is talking B.S. or however one wants to put it.That is for one to judge and decide of they wish…If one is knowingly B.S’ ing then that sounds bit different.Do Sceptics not tend to shout the loudest ?

It’s good to make up your own mind and not be swayed by others or any majority.That sounds more like a rational perspective. Keeping an open mind is a good idea…Does’nt mean one needs to believe everyone or anything.People can make up their own mind…rather than jump to rash conclusions…entertain the benefit of the doubt.Neither affirm or deny.An open mind.

#33

Hi Asuri,

Originally Posted by [B]Amir[/B]
[I]But the method for walking on burning hot coals is a certain technique involving awakening of the manipura chakra which awakens certain energies in the subtle body.[/I]

Just a thought. But what if it could be possible that good control of body temperature can be acheived through a highly awakened manipura because that is where the furnace for your body, your digestive fire comes from largely.

Then there’s the soles of your feet i guess…Ouch!.

#34

@core789

In law, the burden of proof is on the accuser, because it’s impossible to prove a negative. For example, I couldn’t prove that Amir can’t walk on hot coals. Even if I never saw him do it, or nobody else ever saw him do it, that still doesn’t prove that he can’t do it. But Amir could prove that he can do it.

As for keeping an open mind and letting others decide for themselves, they’re going to do that anyway. But if nobody objects to what he says, people are more likely to go along with it, just because of herd mentality. To be silent is to indicate acquiescence, and I do not acquiesce.

#35

Hi Asuri

I suppose the premise contained within that statement is that it is possible. And anything is possible.

If somone said all kangaroos had six legs i would say that was an untruth.Supernatural abilites and siddhis such as wallking on coals seem possible.

I tend to see these claims like talk of siddhis as an ad for pulling folk into yoga and if and once they are attained they become a distraction if abused.So say you can develop these powers through superconsciousness but if you go around using them ,assuming they are possible to attain, then it could be spiritually depleting.Also saying you have them is ego talking and folk that might have them don’t sound like they wish to showcase it. They’re beyond that.I think asking for proof you may be unlikely to get it assuming it’s possible because my hunch is people will do their best to pretend they’re normal and so possibly hide them unless it’s for genuine good use.

I can see both sides.An open mind is both sceptical but neither writes something off either, or completely.If you suggest something is supernatural then it may by it’s very nature elicit scepticism or not.There are things that rational science can’t explain very well…but there are many things such as hypnosis,teleportation, or calirvoyance that are hard to prove without the usual physics.

#36

I don’t understand this automatic assumption that one who has siddhis if any of a lesser yogi for using them or demonstrating them. Is this because most people are ignorant of siddhis and hence if you use them or demonstrate them to such people you will cause a lot of controversy. Imagine if everybody was aware of them, then surely using them would be no issue.

#37

Message deleted.

#38

Hi speaking from experience I’ve achieved minor abilities using psychedelics. I used them extensively in college and afterwards but then took a break from that for a number of years. A couple of years ago I started doing internal Kungfu (Taichi and Baguazang) which also opens up the energy centers, I think somewhat like Kundalini. I took a large dose one time and it became a totally different experience. It was too much at first because it was almost like the universe opened itself up and I felt that direct link to the source. I was camping in the woods and I felt everything in the forest as one Consciousness. I was aware of so much that it was overwhelming my mind so I went to my tent. My body took control and I started doing some crazy yoga poses even though I never had done yoga before in my life. From that trip I realized that Yoga, Taichi and psychedelics are connected. I think that people discovered these high states of being first by taking psychedelics and then realized that they can get and remain there even while sober. Afterwards I started experience things which I didn’t even know how to describe until I started reading about Yoga and siddhis then it all made sense especially when I read the yoga sutras.

#39

Drugs are one of the mechanisms to get siddhi but for those who have prepared themselves to acknowledge it.

If drug is taken by ordinary person then he may get lost into unconscious act of drug reaction. Because such people are only limited to physical body and can not experience deeper levels of psychic world.

You must have seen or read that Sadhus of India have been taking these drugs since ancient times.

Having said that, it is not advisable to take drugs by an ordinary person as the path is very risky and mostly disappointing.

Both, nuclear bomb and nuclear reactor can lead to energy generation. But atom bombs is uncontrolled way and so does drugs.

#40

@ SohamYogaStudio
It’s similar to Yoga in the sense that you should have the proper teacher to guide you on that journey. If done correctly I feel it can help unlock your potential and benefit you in so many ways, that’s why we need to reintroduce shamanism back into modern society.